The OFFICIAL... Neosd MicroSD Card thread...

Rot

Calvin & Hobbes, ,
Staff member
Someone needs to buy a cheapass nasty 16gb SD card from China and see how it goes...

Thanks for the contributions so far guys...

xROTx
 

mastamuzz

Eager Beaver
Someone needs to buy a cheapass nasty 16gb SD card from China and see how it goes...

Thanks for the contributions so far guys...

xROTx

I'll do that when I get back from work!

Edit: thanks xsq I got them down!
 
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yoshi41

Stakes Winner
This is intresting, it appears there are others experiancing the same delays I am seeing with the MVS NeoSD cart (pre version) I mentioned in the main thread reported on the AES cart here in this thread (maybe one MVS cart also).

I'm talking about the 20% slower times with kof2003 (under 3:00 compared to above 3:20). neodev mentions the AES should be a little slower so that could point to something but on the other hand others with AES carts have now reported under 3:00 times also, about equal to the MVS (20% faster). Yoshi41 has tested the same cards on a MVS and AES neoSD so the cards can be ruled out there, why is his AES NeoSD slower than other AES NeoSD?

Something strange is happening here, hopefully that can be fixed in firmware.

Your post motivated me for another test (AES with NeoSD MVS).

And guess what, it's not the console. It's the cart (most likely the firmware) which makes the big difference. :spock:


AES UniBIOS 3.1 + NeoSD AES Firmware 1.05

Sandisk Ultra microSDHC UHS-1 (32GB, Class 10) SDSQUNC-032G-GN6MA

KOF 2003 - 3:21
Magician Lord - 0:23


Omega CMVS UniBIOS 3.3 + NeoSD MVS Firmware 1.05

Sandisk Ultra microSDHC UHS-1 (32GB, Class 10) SDSQUNC-032G-GN6MA

KOF 2003 - 2:49
Magician Lord - 0:20


AES UniBIOS 3.1 + Daedalus Converter + NeoSD MVS Firmware 1.05

Sandisk Ultra microSDHC UHS-1 (32GB, Class 10) SDSQUNC-032G-GN6MA

KOF 2003 - 2:50
Magician Lord - 0:21
 

Razoola

Divine Hand of the UniBIOS,
Staff member
Your post motivated me for another test (AES with NeoSD MVS).

And guess what, it's not the console. It's the cart (most likely the firmware) which makes the big difference. :spock:


AES UniBIOS 3.1 + NeoSD AES Firmware 1.05

Sandisk Ultra microSDHC UHS-1 (32GB, Class 10) SDSQUNC-032G-GN6MA

KOF 2003 - 3:21
Magician Lord - 0:23


Omega CMVS UniBIOS 3.3 + NeoSD MVS Firmware 1.05

Sandisk Ultra microSDHC UHS-1 (32GB, Class 10) SDSQUNC-032G-GN6MA

KOF 2003 - 2:49
Magician Lord - 0:20


AES UniBIOS 3.1 + Daedalus Converter + NeoSD MVS Firmware 1.05

Sandisk Ultra microSDHC UHS-1 (32GB, Class 10) SDSQUNC-032G-GN6MA

KOF 2003 - 2:50
Magician Lord - 0:21

Yes I know, you have an identical issue as I have with the pre MVS cart and I think another user has the same situation who posted. neodev is sure its related to the flashchip erase times on some chips but I personally think its premature to put the blame there until its confirmed via direct testing. I really hope this can be fixed with a firmware update because the time differences are quite great.

There is something you could also test though with the AES NeoSD you have. If you flash maglord and watch the progress bar, do you see two erase cycles? One right at the start and another that lasts a moment around 50% through the flashing process?
 

greatfunky

Mr. Big's Thug
I just tested my transcend card from my neo sd MVS on my neosd AES and i get again 2.50 on KOF03 , so two different sd cards (sandisk and transcend ) on both neosd version give me the same result .

The only thing i could say is what neodev was explaining about speed difference between MVS and AES version is certainly true but in fact , probably not really visually noticeable (on two perfectly working neosd carts).

So yes , the speed issue should be somewhere else , concerning independently MVS or AES neosd carts...
 
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yoshi41

Stakes Winner
There is something you could also test though with the AES NeoSD you have. If you flash maglord and watch the progress bar, do you see two erase cycles? One right at the start and another that lasts a moment around 50% through the flashing process?

Tried a couple of times. Don't have that extra erase cycle with my AES cart.
 

yoshi41

Stakes Winner
Did some more testing after I saw the longer loading time could be related to low serials.

KOF 2003 also needs 3:20 to load on my 60K serial AES models.
 

mastamuzz

Eager Beaver
updated times on other cards! includes china clone and old 1 Gig!

lexar633x
0:22.12
2:54.78

china clone 4gig class 4
0:22.15
2:53.82

lexar300x 16gig
0:22.02
2:56.66

blackweb 16gig class 10
0:22.39
2:56.81

vanilla sandisk 1gig
0:22.22
2:56.90

yes the china clone had better time on kof2003
 

mastamuzz

Eager Beaver
apparently no in my case but you are free to try different cards what may be good for me may not be good for you, I followed some e-myths about SD cards the zeroed format then fill your card with 4 gig files and erase then format U and then format fat32 you may want to try out with a card straight from the box and then do the myths and see if anything changes for you.
 

Razoola

Divine Hand of the UniBIOS,
Staff member
hey guys.

so there is no sd card winner and it depends on the multi cart itself?

thanks

Yes, this is correct in some cases. At the moment not enough is known but some users of the NeoSD (MVS and AES) are 20% slower than others (loading kof2003) and it has been confirmed it is not releated to the MVS or AES hardware or the brand of SD card used. If your kof2003 loads in around 3:20 or slower very likly your neosd is one of those affected if your sure yout using a fast sdcard.
 

lachlan

drunk downunder!, aka. Muff Diver.,
While Im not helping I have to say 2-3mins is a lot faster than

1. The money I would earn to pay for said game and
2. Faster than shipping anywhere in the world.

If its under 4 mins then its a good deal.

**Fixed by Rot... Cuz Lachlan types like convict...**
 

mastamuzz

Eager Beaver
Soap fell from the keyboard?

And back to square one if 4 minutes bothers someone then go back to teh emus, or multi carts cause you are still discovering the NEO library.
 

Gyrian

Hardened Shock Trooper
Here are my cheapo micro SD times, for what it's worth.

NeoSD AES 1.05
Dane 8gb HC class 4 micro SD card

2T5intU.png


3:22 KOF2003 flashing time | 0:37 erase | 2:45 flash
0:24 Magician Lord flashing time | 0:03 erase | 0:21 flash

I get a fair amount of variability in erase times. Flashing times are consistent, I timed both games @ 2:45 & 0:21 multiple times each.
 

Razoola

Divine Hand of the UniBIOS,
Staff member
3:22 KOF2003 flashing time | 0:37 erase | 2:45 flash
0:24 Magician Lord flashing time | 0:03 erase | 0:21 flash

I get a fair amount of variability in erase times. Flashing times are consistent, I timed both games @ 2:45 & 0:21 multiple times each.

This 0:37 erase time does not make sence. From what I have been told during testing this issue, the expected erase time should be about 0:50 in ideal conditions, and that should still allow the entire flash process to complete well under 3:00. Someone is either telling porkies or something else is happening on top as well.

These tests are going to have to be done again to get any meaning full information now if your sure your times are correct Gyrian. Not with maglord though, just with kof2003, flashing the game twice and only taking info from the 2nd flash. Giving the initial erase time, following flash time and final total time (both added together).

For me it is as follows.

0:52 + 2.24, total 3:25

Given the times neosd told me he gets and what neodev told me about the expected initial erase time for kof2003, it would mean neosds total time of 2:42 would be made up of 0:50 + 1:52 = 2:42. It would be intresting to see if this initial 0:50 erase time is actually accurate or can be used to determine if you have a NeoSD affected by this problem.
 
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Razoola

Divine Hand of the UniBIOS,
Staff member
Just spoken to neodev again about this and it appears what I was told before is not totally accurate. A 0:52 erase cycle during the flashing process is not normal and slower than the expected norm. Bear in mind this erase cycle is not reliant on the sdcard either. The expected erase time in an ideal situation should be 37 seconds but given that is rare, a couple of seconds slower is also very acceptable. Will be intresting to see if others affected by slow flashing times also have this much slower than expected initial erase time.
 
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Gyrian

Hardened Shock Trooper
Appreciate your reply, Raz.

I should've dug deeper on erase time once I made the distinction. My flash time measured consistently, and I was about ready to post once I realized that Rot had requested total time. My total for KOF2003 surprised me a bit, and my impression of erase times was one of variability based upon trying out a number of games.

I've verified that I was mistaken about this, having tested again for KOF2003 erase time specifically. Five tests got me between 35s to 38s. Clearly there is a technical reason here, but it would sure make for a tangible difference if NeoSD could start by overwriting instead.
 

neodev

Neosd Tech
Appreciate your reply, Raz.

I should've dug deeper on erase time once I made the distinction. My flash time measured consistently, and I was about ready to post once I realized that Rot had requested total time. My total for KOF2003 surprised me a bit, and my impression of erase times was one of variability based upon trying out a number of games.

I've verified that I was mistaken about this, having tested again for KOF2003 erase time specifically. Five tests got me between 35s to 38s. Clearly there is a technical reason here, but it would sure make for a tangible difference if NeoSD could start by overwriting instead.

Keep in mind that erase time depends on the game size, as the firmware will only erase the required space for the game, so small games have quicker erase time than larger games.

Also, erasing is a mandatory step for flashroms, the data can't just be overwritten, writting to a flashrom can only convert bits from 1 to 0, but in order to convert a bit back to 1, you must erase it, and erasing can only be performed at erase block sizes (128KB for the large flashes in NeoSD).

Also, erasing is an operation that it self timed inside the flashroms, so firmware doesn't have actually any control on the time it takes,It just says "erase sectors from x to y" and then waits for the flash to report it has finished. Just external factors like temperature, voltage stability, component tolerance... affect that time.
 
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