The OFFICIAL... Neosd MicroSD Card thread...

GadgetUK

Giga Shock!!
27.14 secs to erase. That was after flashing kof2k3, when shock troopers was previously flashed.

EDIT: And from KoF2003 erased to Metal Slug 5, 23.9 seconds for the erase.

It's going to sound a bit crazy this, but has anyone measured temperature vs flash time? The room my MVS is running in is out door temperatures at the moment - ie. really cold, a few degrees above C. I do wonder if it will slow down a bit when warmed up to room temperature.
 
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Razoola

Divine Hand of the UniBIOS,
Staff member
27.14 secs to erase. That was after flashing kof2k3, when shock troopers was previously flashed.

EDIT: And from KoF2003 erased to Metal Slug 5, 23.9 seconds for the erase.

It's going to sound a bit crazy this, but has anyone measured temperature vs flash time? The room my MVS is running in is out door temperatures at the moment - ie. really cold, a few degrees above C. I do wonder if it will slow down a bit when warmed up to room temperature.

You need to flash kof2003, then flash it again and time that. I suspect it will then it will be around 37 seconds. As a matter of interest can you also time the total time (erase+flash)

I have tested with tempreture. In my case the warmer it is, the slower the speed, thats starting from about 18c roon tempreture.

Raz
 

GadgetUK

Giga Shock!!
You need to flash kof2003, then flash it again and time that. I suspect it will then it will be around 37 seconds. As a matter of interest can you also time the total time (erase+flash)

I have tested with tempreture. In my case the warmer it is, the slower the speed, thats starting from about 18c roon tempreture.

Raz

A fraction over 27 secs to erase! It's freezing in here though!

EDIT: Total time 2 mins 48 secs.
 
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greatfunky

Mr. Big's Thug
About temperatures , i use my neosd mvs in the same condition as Gadget : cold room , near outdoor temp , however i use my neosd aes in the house (20°C) and i get a very very close timing on both neosd (more or less one or two seconds difference).
 
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GadgetUK

Giga Shock!!
About temperatures , i use my neosd mvs in the same condition as Gadget : cold room , near outdoor temp , however i use my neosd aes in the house (20°C) and i get a very very close timing on both neosd (more or less one or two seconds difference).

That's good to know, so sounds like we can rule out temperature. My guess is its just differences between chips. If I remember correctly, one of the things about nand flash is there's sort of ECC block and an error mapping system (hence how these chips can be flashed so many times, they are not only high quality but have a large amount of additional space to deal with errors. It's possible that because of that error management process that's why they vary in their timings. Because some chips could have a different distribution of errors than others, and that distribution pattern could affect timing when erasing and writing? I could be talking crap, but I've seen similar timing differences on Everdrives before now, although when you are comparing two programming operations that take 4 or 5 seconds the difference is a lot less noticeable.
 

greatfunky

Mr. Big's Thug
That's good to know, so sounds like we can rule out temperature. My guess is its just differences between chips. If I remember correctly, one of the things about nand flash is there's sort of ECC block and an error mapping system (hence how these chips can be flashed so many times, they are not only high quality but have a large amount of additional space to deal with errors. It's possible that because of that error management process that's why they vary in their timings. Because some chips could have a different distribution of errors than others, and that distribution pattern could affect timing when erasing and writing? I could be talking crap, but I've seen similar timing differences on Everdrives before now, although when you are comparing two programming operations that take 4 or 5 seconds the difference is a lot less noticeable.

Yes , chips differences seems more likely , just think about overclocking on identical CPUs , some are more stable than others and could be overclocked at a higher speed , sometimes with huge differences.
 

shaneboc

Timid Neo Newbie
@ neodev

Hi neodev,
just got my aes cart and wanted to thank you and your team again for the great product. I have had no issues with the cart and wanted once again to say thank you for such a great product and over the top fantastic service that you have provide the neo geo community.
 

GadgetUK

Giga Shock!!
The other thing that supports it being the chips themselves - if you do the math, mine works out approximately 50% faster at erase, but only 8% faster on programming. So there is a difference in prog speed too, not just erase speed.

When all is said and done (and I know its easy for me to say because mine seems fast at the moment), when you are looking at 2 mins 48 vs 3 mins 25, its approx 20%. It's really not a big deal (well to me at least). I know that's easy for me to say, but what's an extra 30 seconds when you've waited 3 mins anyway. If you had known in advance that it could be + or - 20% would you be bothered, I know I wouldn't - I still would have bought one regardless.

I also think we should let neodev look into it more when he has time, maybe a firmware update could tweak this - maybe its not the problem we think it is, and maybe its something that can be tweaked in firmware, who knows. It's also worth considering that before we had the 'faster flash erase' update, it took longer for everyone. So if anything, we are all better off than at the start - if that makes sense? I am not trying to dismiss this, I am just trying to change perspective on it. Lets keep thinking about it, but not get overly stressed about it.
 
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yoshi41

Stakes Winner
Some more testing with erase time...

AES UniBIOS 3.1 + NeoSD AES Firmware 1.05

Sandisk Ultra microSDHC UHS-1 (32GB, Class 10) SDSQUNC-032G-GN6MA

KOF 2003 - Erase - 0:38
KOF 2003 - Total - 3:22

Omega CMVS UniBIOS 3.3 + NeoSD MVS Firmware 1.05

Sandisk Ultra microSDHC UHS-1 (32GB, Class 10) SDSQUNC-032G-GN6MA

KOF 2003 - Erase - 0:32
KOF 2003 - Total - 2:49

PS: Both NesSD carts are totally great. Just interested to see if this can be fixed somehow.
 
Question: the Neosd only supports up to SDHC card format, not SDXC, correct? SDXC default format is also exFAT, and I believe the Neosd only supports FAT32, is that right?
 

Rot

Calvin & Hobbes, ,
Staff member
Some more testing with erase time...

AES UniBIOS 3.1 + NeoSD AES Firmware 1.05

Sandisk Ultra microSDHC UHS-1 (32GB, Class 10) SDSQUNC-032G-GN6MA

KOF 2003 - Erase - 0:38
KOF 2003 - Total - 3:22

Omega CMVS UniBIOS 3.3 + NeoSD MVS Firmware 1.05

Sandisk Ultra microSDHC UHS-1 (32GB, Class 10) SDSQUNC-032G-GN6MA

KOF 2003 - Erase - 0:32
KOF 2003 - Total - 2:49

PS: Both NesSD carts are totally great. Just interested to see if this can be fixed somehow.

I think neodev said... no...

There are restrictions with the AES side...

Important thing... does it work?... Answer... Yes...

Do you swap games every 30 minutes?... IF... the answer is Yes... then you're a tard...

xROTx
 

Razoola

Divine Hand of the UniBIOS,
Staff member
Yea, there are some differences with the AES compared to MVS but thats something seperate to this issue.
 

Rot

Calvin & Hobbes, ,
Staff member
Yea, there are some differences with the AES compated to MVS but thats something seperate to this issue.

I really don't care about this... as long as the device works... a 20% difference means very little in the great scheme of things...

On the other hand if people came out of the woodwork and said the device wasn't working and the Neosd couldn't fixit... then i'd get interested...

I am here viewing the overall makeup of our forum... the forums sense of entitlement to make issues out of what i think as non-issues... is sorta grating on my nerves somewhat...

This is because... the device works... I DO NOT care if there is a variation of 20%... I DO NOT care if people think it's important because they swap games every 30 minutes...

The only thing I care about is the overall care of our community... not individuals... and this is why I am where I am..

xROTx
 

Razoola

Divine Hand of the UniBIOS,
Staff member
Yes, this is a technical thing only. Its clear for you this is no biggie. Given this thread here is about sdcard / load times, its important the issue is discussed. Espicially given how it seems the sdcard is looking less likley the deciding factor governing load times and more about if one is lucky to have a neosd that is better proforming than the next off the product line. I'm hopeful through discussion about this situation and sharing of information and data, a solution can be more easily discovered.

The times posted by Gadget for example are intresting given his erase times appear faster than the spec.
 
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benjiedude

Quiz Detective
Finally got around to timing my cart. I'm within the norm for AES as others have reported. I have a stock, no Unibios, US AES in the 13,000's. SanDisk class 10 16gb.

KOF 2003- 3:27
Magician Lord- 24.2 secs
 

Rot

Calvin & Hobbes, ,
Staff member
Technical... Schmehnical.... So there's a variation... 20% as stated...

Does it affect the gameplay?... nope...
Does it affect your enjoyment of the games?... nope...

I remember when the AF 3 affair was happening... and certain guys were viewing that it as a technical masterpiece...

...When infact the bigger picture was far... FAR... more complicated...

I view this case as such... I may not have the tech brains but I don't view the forums as a tech hangout...

This point maybe important to some... but in reality in the great scheme of things... it's not even close to the top of whats truly important for this device...

Gameplay...
Hardware Compatability...
Ease of Firmware upgrade... etc etc...

THESE are some of the things that are important... not a measly 20% on a working device....

Geez... get a grip here...

xROTx
 

Yodd

Kyo's Flame
When I was doing testing for my review video and the follow up firmware video, I noticed that flash and erase times were not consistent. I would flash the same games, in order, rotating through the list. Sometimes the flash times would be identical, other times vastly different. This was especially true when I used the expensive Sandisk card. With the cheap class 10 they were more consistent, though some times it varied.


So, in my experience the cheaper cards deliver a more consistent (and usually faster) flash time.
 

massimiliano

ネオジオ,
Rot, what's the point of this thread if not discussing timers? I mean, if trough Raz's analysis, we are gonna end with a clear picture about SD cards and factors influencing loading times, I guess it should be welcome..or not? (at least in this very thread, I 100% agree being anal about this i.e. in the general thread, would be just meh-sturbation)
 

Razoola

Divine Hand of the UniBIOS,
Staff member
Yodd, yup the previous flashed game indeed plays a role in the flash time but that is not part of this issue. Its why its important to flash the game twice and only time the 2nd run. Its a weird situation.

It has only come to light becase neosd mentions a time of 2:42 to flash kof2003 and in my effort to hit the same time on the neoSD, I can only hit a time of 3:25 (various mvs tried). Thats using an sdcard neosd sent me which he verified flashed in 2:42 before he sent.

We are just trying to gather info to find the cause and hopefully if possible a fix that can be applied via firmware.
 
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