SVC's greatest failure is how depressing it is

[BlackaneseNiNjA]

Strikers were never needed in this series and they ultimately added nothing to a franchise that was in need of much better systems to revitalize it. And no one, NO ONE, misses them being removed from the subsequent entries where they don't appear. If someone misses strikers, they are gay and should not speak of it.

Strikers are the blender PS5 attachment no one asked for, no one wanted and no one needed.

Whats up Taiso, I know strikers proved to be a divisive feature for some, but KOF has always had some version of teammate assists/attacks in battle that have been present in the series from the very first entry.

Even in all the KOF's prior to the introduction of the striker system: 94-98, it is possible to press A+B+C to perform an attack with your teammates if dizzied. Though the criteria stayed the same (visible teammates and at least one teammate not in KO status), the input for dizzy escape team assists was eventually changed to A+B+C+D as the series went on. SNK eventually expanded the team attack concept into the more robust (and far less situational) striker system, but it shows that SNK had always envisioned some aspect of the other teammates interacting/interfering in the battles from the inception of the series itself.

(From the KOF94 manual; “You’re not alone. You have partners. This is the Help Attack!”)

 

[HellioN]

Kyo > Iori > Ash

 

[Taiso]

Strikers brought in a tag-style element that was fun to use if you could be arsed to it. It was buggy at first but got un-fucked with 2k1, at least that's no excuse anymore.

I guess that's 80% of the reason why people hated them, they wanted another 98 (and then they would've complained about OMG rehash) but didn't want to learn new things. Those who did soon could run rings around the lazy f00ks which boosted the striker hate. I know I was guilty of that myself but there's lots of cool shit you can do with them so there's no need to be ignorant about it.

They got taken out to make another tournament-worthy game coz 99/2k/2k1 proved to be too complex/unpredictable for that. Overall I was glad they got removed but they're better than most people think.

And what does it boil down to, as always? Eh? EH??

Skill issue.

Seems to me like SNK were the only ones with a skill issue, since Strikers sucked, were gay and vestigial from conception.

 

[Taiso]

Whats up Taiso, I know strikers proved to be a divisive feature for some, but KOF has always had some version of teammate assists/attacks in battle that have been present in the series from the very first entry.

Even in all the KOF's prior to the introduction of the striker system: 94-98, it is possible to press A+B+C to perform an attack with your teammates if dizzied. Though the criteria stayed the same (visible teammates and at least one teammate not in KO status), the input for dizzy escape team assists was eventually changed to A+B+C+D as the series went on. SNK eventually expanded the team attack concept into the more robust (and far less situational) striker system, but it shows that SNK had always envisioned some aspect of the other teammates interacting/interfering in the battles from the inception of the series itself.

(From the KOF94 manual; “You’re not alone. You have partners. This is the Help Attack!”)
View attachment 82562

It was gay then, too. And more proof that SNK didn't know it was doing even in the earlier entries.

Please don't embarrass yourself. I like you and this is too dangerously close to you shitting the bed for my liking.

Don't be that guy. SNK stans are as bad as all other stans.

EDIT: Except Ryu Hayabusa stans. They are great.

 

[Neo Alec]

No, I just thought it sounded just like it - a studio recorded, then heavily degraded mono sound quality soundtrack.
No KoF OST ever sounded that flat before.

Yeah, these new arrangements of classic songs in KOF 2002 really were not the best. But nah man, this is not what fully-recorded Neo Geo soundtracks sounded like back in the day. This one even has plenty of stereo effects in it. That accompaniment during the guitar in the intro for example, that's FM.

If you're going to do a fully-recorded low bitrate soundtrack, you're not going to bother with these FM-sounding instruments and the same kind of guitar samples that sound like what SNK has always used in their cart games. You would use higher quality synths and instruments. Think more like Blazing Star or Breakers. Maybe Rage of the Dragons. Those washed out, muffled recordings of higher quality synths and real guitars.

I can't understand why Kawaks has the option to disable individual sprite layers, but there's no option to disable individual sound channels. I must be the only goob who wants this nerdy shit. NeoJuke is the only app I know of that has that, and it's older than these games, so I'm not sure if I can't even get it to work. That would eliminate any doubts.

 

[Takumaji]

Seems to me like SNK were the only ones with a skill issue, since Strikers sucked, were gay and vestigial from conception.

Thanks for the elaborate answer.

And great post, BlackaneseNiNjA.

ng.com's greatest failure is how depressing it can be sometimes.

 

[SouthtownKid]

Ash isn't that bad. Fuck, I will take that new green hair guy over that yawnfest Kyo. At least he has ties to a real fighting game series, being a student of a Fatal Fury character.

 

[SouthtownKid]

Also, bring back Malin. I loved how she sounded like a seagull that dug up some dealer's meth stash on the beach, and how much that voice pissed everyone off.

 

[Takumaji]

Also, bring back Malin. I loved how she sounded like a seagull that dug up some dealer's meth stash on the beach, and how much that voice pissed everyone off.

My secret weapon in this regard is Bao, I've made grown men almost cry with him and it doesn't even take much, his voice, fighting style and overall appearance seems to trigger some people a lot.

 

[SouthtownKid]

My secret weapon in this regard is Bao, I've made grown men almost cry with him and it doesn't even take much, his voice, fighting style and overall appearance seems to trigger some people a lot.

Yeah, same. I will take any advantage. I prefer Malin, though.

 

[yagamikun]

I really like Ash - it's not often SNK made compelling charge characters. I've never been a huge fan of his design, but his tool kit is much fun in KOF XI and subsequent games. This is coming from an almost exclusively charge character player in Capcom fighters, though, so I always felt his approach was a nice change of pace. He's basically Green Fire Guile.

 

[BlackaneseNiNjA]

It was gay then, too. And more proof that SNK didn't know it was doing even in the earlier entries.

Please don't embarrass yourself. I like you and this is too dangerously close to you shitting the bed for my liking.

Don't be that guy. SNK stans are as bad as all other stans.

EDIT: Except Ryu Hayabusa stans. They are great.

No need to be so dramatic, Taiso.
You may not like the mechanic itself and I’m not here to defend whether it was a fun feature or not. Pre-Playmore SNK threw a lot of ideas at the audience, it doesn’t mean that all of it stuck with players, but we’re all here on this site after all these years because it certainly left an impression.

Surely, Ryukenden has managed to do the same, no?

 

[neo_mao]

I play as Shingo in the neo geo pocket games

 

[HellioN]

Why all the Kyo hate?
He's easily one of my favourite to play characters.

 

[Taiso]

No need to be so dramatic, Taiso.
You may not like the mechanic itself and I’m not here to defend whether it was a fun feature or not. Pre-Playmore SNK threw a lot of ideas at the audience, it doesn’t mean that all of it stuck with players, but we’re all here on this site after all these years because it certainly left an impression.

Surely, Ryukenden has managed to do the same, no?

Strikers definitely left an impression on me.

The impression that they're lame and pointless and didn't help the series at all.

Even in the earlier games before they were called 'Strikers'.

Even in Ninja Ryukenden with Steel and Bone, which I ALSO pointed out was poorly implemented and ultimately failed.

 

[Taiso]

Why all the Kyo hate?
He's easily one of my favourite to play characters.
View attachment 82573

Kyo is bottom confirmed.

 

[HellioN]

Kyo is bottom confirmed.

Kyo > Taiso

 

[Neo Alec]

I really like Ash - it's not often SNK made compelling charge characters. I've never been a huge fan of his design, but his tool kit is much fun in KOF XI and subsequent games. This is coming from an almost exclusively charge character player in Capcom fighters, though, so I always felt his approach was a nice change of pace. He's basically Green Fire Guile.

People just like to complain. What's not great about spamming flash kicks that send the character all the way across the screen? That's insane fun.

You know what, actually? That's what it is. These Taiso player types hate fun. That's why they hate the strikers, for example. Anything that amps up the craziness and makes things chaotic (less by the book) and they're having a bad time. Heaven forbid a developer tries a new thing for a while. It was the 90's, and they were looking for the next thing in fighting games.

 

[Taiso]

Heaven forbid a developer make the new thing worth a damn.

They knew it was shit so they took it out.

As for Ash, he and Kyo and Iori play fine. They're just fags, is all.

 

[NeoSeeD]

Team assists in 94-98 were great. They gave a dizzy player a chance to avoid some of the cheesy silliness of Street Fighter. In SF, you can start a round with a dizzy combo or exploit of some kind, and then end it right away with another combo. Assists are a good mechanic that was missing in every other fighting game. Plus, it was hilarious when Rodem (Rugal's Panther) would jump out out of the blue and ruin player combos on a dizzy Rugal.

Strikers sucked though. It was just devs throwing hacky garbage at the wall instead of coming up with compelling gameplay and new moves for characters. SNK saw MvC and thought, "We can do that too!" and instead of creating a new series and incorporating it into that, they shoehorned it into KOF.

 

[Taiso]

If you were to put a gun to my head and ask me to choose between assists and strikers, I'm choosing assists every time.

I still think they're lame. Dizzying is the punishment for taking too much offense and while it could be said to be an abusable state, that's what successive entries in a series pre-internet update are partly meant to do: improve on things they got wrong.

Imagine if Blanks still took three quarters of his life bar for being hit out of a canonball in 2025.

Sometimes things that seem cool to put in a game are revealed to be bad ideas.

I think that it's not really great to say 'well, dizzies happen too often because we suck but here's a gimmick with which we can hide our mistakes.' Just do it better next time.

Or do it like they did it in '95 and have people lose a match before they can even get dizzied!

I miss the hit sound effects of '95,

 

[Neo Alec]

The strikers also allowed for some fun character cameos in KOF 2000. You know, fun?

 

[yagamikun]

The strikers also allowed for some fun character cameos in KOF 2000. You know, fun?

Honestly, that's my favorite part about 2K - all the cameos from past SNK properties and other fighting games. KOF 2K was a swansong kind of experience for "classic" SNK that tied everything up into a neat little bow before imploding as a company. Not the tightest KOF, but the game overall is still excellent fun and that AST? I also enjoy the striker system in this game with the fun pop-ups and juggles you could perform out of a throw.

 

[Taiso]

The strikers also allowed for some fun character cameos in KOF 2000. You know, fun?

You know what else is fun?

A blender attachment to a PS5. Mix drinks while you play!

Still gay.

 

[LoneSage]

Huh, a video showing all of the transformations after Red Arremer beats the player showed up. Too Japanese for me. They all have something to do with Japanese folklore demonology.

Pretty cool but what a shame they didn't put that much effort into the actual game. Still a very, very depressing game.

edit: some examples because no one will ever see them otherwise

Geese after being beaten by Red Arremer. He resembles the Chinese god of longevity, Shouxing.


Ken after being defeated turns into the Nine Tailed Fox, everyone knows this one thanks to Naruto and Pokemon.


Ryu turns into the Nue, which is a distinctly Japanese chimera.


Every character has a tranformation after being beaten by Red Arremer (as well as Athena, which I may or may not also post a few examples of).

So much work was put into this game. What a shame the direction they took it in.