SVC's greatest failure is how depressing it is

[Neo Alec]

About the 2K1 soundtrack...

It was composed by Masahiko Hataya and Kikuko Hataya (R.I.P.), who are SNK veterans. So in theory it shouldn't be that different from previous installments, but here are my theories about what happened:

The much smaller sound team compared to previous KOF's lowered the overall quality.

They lost access to some of development tools used for the previous entries when Eolith took over as publisher.

It was a rushed development timeline.

Maybe their office was in limbo and were working from home.

They were trying something stylistically new, and picked an awkward time for it. (Maybe it came at the request of the game's new director at Eolith.)

 

[Takumaji]

About the 2K1 soundtrack...

It was composed by Masahiko Hataya and Kikuko Hataya, who are SNK veterans. So in theory it shouldn't be that different from previous installments, but here are my theories about what happened:

The much smaller sound team compared to previous KOF's lowered the overall quality.

They lost access to some of development tools used for the previous entries when Eolith took over as publisher.

It was a rushed development timeline.

Maybe their office was in limbo and were working from home.

They were trying something stylistically new, and picked an awkward time for it. (Maybe it came at the request of the game's new director at Eolith.)

It's not only the instrumentation but also the composition, many tracks are just uninspired and bland, and there's no real excuse for that (except personal tastes, of course). They've used a larger amount of sample loops than before, at least that explains the quite lo-fi sound of some of them. You do not hear a lot of those nice FM sounds of the earlier games (99 and before).

Yeah, maybe they were trying something new, couldn't say they succeeded with it. Ah well, old coals, I've made my peace with it a long time ago, game's just too good to criticise it based on graphics and sound alone.

 

[Neo Alec]

It's not only the instrumentation but also the composition, many tracks are just uninspired and bland, and there's no real excuse for that (except personal tastes, of course). They've used a larger amount of sample loops than before, at least that explains the quite lo-fi sound of some of them. You do not hear a lot of those nice FM sounds of the earlier games (99 and before).

Yeah, maybe they were trying something new, couldn't say they succeeded with it. Ah well, old coals, I've made my peace with it a long time ago, game's just too good to criticise it based on graphics and sound alone.

I think 2K2 is a bit better composition-wise, and a partial return to form stylistically at least. That one has a huge soundtrack due to the inclusion of new arrangements of classic tracks. However I think the new tracks and arrangements really suffer due to memory constraints on the amount of samples that could be used.

The presentation of 2K3 comes closer to a real SNK product, but the compositions are kind of forgettable, short and mindless. I like the end credits theme.

 

[Johnny16Bit]

I think 2K2 is a bit better composition-wise, and a partial return to form stylistically at least. That one has a huge soundtrack due to the inclusion of new arrangements of classic tracks. However I think the new tracks and arrangements really suffer due to memory constraints on the amount of samples that could be used.

"Amount of samples"... Aren't the 2k1 and 2k2 OSTs ADPCM-only tracks?

 

[Tarma]

The only reason 2k2 is best for competitive play is the expanded roster of fighters available. Put that roster into KoF '98 and 2k2 wouldn't be able to hold a candle to '98.

Once you go beyond the superficial reason to play 2k2 (the roster), it is just a lazy rehash of '98 with worse graphics, sound and gameplay. I wouldn't call it a bad game per se, but as a neo geo game... yeah, it's pretty crap.

 

[yagamikun]

Once you go beyond the superficial reason to play 2k2 (the roster), it is just a lazy rehash of '98 with worse graphics, sound and gameplay. I wouldn't call it a bad game per se, but as a neo geo game... yeah, it's pretty crap.

I've always felt 2K2 was a bit of a missed opportunity - The game is fine, great even. But unlike 98 which was like a greatest hits celebration of all prior KOFs to that point, 2K2 played it safe by ditching the core mechanic that defined the games that led up to it, the striker system.

Would have been cool to pick "advanced" or "basic" strikers and have one or the other system work like 99/2K and the other 2K1 with Ratios. Something to that effect.

I know, I know, no budget, devs gone, we're lucky to have it, etc. etc. Just a personal want for something that never was that I thought would have been a cool feature.

 

[SouthtownKid]

Anyway it’s all irrelevant because any Fatal Fury > every KOF

Yep.

 

[Neo Alec]

I've always felt 2K2 was a bit of a missed opportunity - The game is fine, great even. But unlike 98 which was like a greatest hits celebration of all prior KOFs to that point, 2K2 played it safe by ditching the core mechanic that defined the games that led up to it, the striker system.

Would have been cool to pick "advanced" or "basic" strikers and have one or the other system work like 99/2K and the other 2K1 with Ratios. Something to that effect.

I know, I know, no budget, devs gone, we're lucky to have it, etc. etc. Just a personal want for something that never was that I thought would have been a cool feature.

Yeah, 2K2 should be the finale to 99-2001 except it's a different thing. Can't really complain though since the 2K2 we got is probably a better game overall than what you're describing would have been.

 

[Tarma]

a bit of a missed opportunity

That statement sums up all the Playmore era games perfectly.

 

[Hattori Hanzo]

Sad but true.

 

[SouthtownKid]

Yeah, the striker system fucking sucked. What are you talking about? The should have tanked 2002 just because '99-'01 had strikers? That's crazy.

 

[b-blanco]

95 is great for competitive play. As someone who grew up in the arcade era, it was the one KOF that I remember having the same crowd on it as the Alpha series of games. IMO, it's a great game with fast gameplay, amazing music, creative backgrounds, awesome sound FX and unique things for the AOF and FF teams. It wasn't an incomplete Dan game like KOF 96 and 97 were. Nor did it have the silly button mashing "custom combo" crap that came with later fighting games once devs ran out of real ideas.

Presentation wise the series took a dive after 96. 97 had some cool ideas but still kind of lacking with the presentation.

 

[Takumaji]

I rest my case.

 

[SouthtownKid]

And if someone likes strikers, 2001 already does strikers as good as they're ever going to be done. 2001 didn't need 2002 in the same way '96 and '97 needed '98.

 

[Taiso]

Strikers are more gay than Ash.

 

[Takumaji]

Guys, is this KoF joke week or summat? Have I missed a memo?

I wanna know before I get angry.

 

[SouthtownKid]

I know '97 has its fans, particularly with the Korean fanbase, but it's not great. Plays better than '96. But not enough better. '98 was like, okay, let's fix everything wrong with the last two games. Which they completely accomplished.

2001 may look like shit, but it's sooooooooo much more fun to play than '99 or 2000.

 

[Takumaji]

I know '97 has its fans, particularly with the Korean fanbase, but it's not great. Plays better than '96. But not enough better. '98 was like, okay, let's fix everything wrong with the last two games. Which they completely accomplished.

2001 may look like shit, but it's sooooooooo much more fun to play than '99 or 2000.

97 just has that awesome tournament atmosphere with a ton of cool ambient sounds, audience cheers, etc. It's also one of the few, if not the only KoF that not only gives you a really good 1P experience but is even partly designed for that, even though it started as an arcade title, of course. Deep shit, man, maybe we could babble about it in Gameplay one day.

Anyway, 2k1 is my baby, it's head and shoulders above 99 and 2k on a technical level but I have to disagree about it being more fun than them. I almost had what could be called an allergic reaction to those damn strikers when SNK introduced them in 99, totally wrecked my game for a while. Balance was totally off, not as bad as in 2k with its striker bombing bs but gimmickry enough to make me angry and shun 99 for quite a while, then I said fuck it, went back and found that it has some quirks that make it special. Lots of small but interesting changes in chara movesets, including command move changes, "half-frame" invincibilities with strikers, which was fun even though they basically sucked, etc., etc.

2k was special, it had this air of decay around it with SNK on the death bed and all, horrible days...

Like a mirror of their future, eh.

That was the mindset when I first played and loved it at first, then I found out that they had increased striker speed even more, some new charas somewhat balanced it for me for a while, like Angel, her addition caused what must have been one of the most intense streaks of KoF practising sessions I ever had, I still suck a bit at all those strung-together moves but just love the concept to death. That's also something that could be elaborated on one day, can-be-arsed level permitting.

98, the Dream Match, it's a best-of and they did almost everything right, except for tiers and shit, which some say is a skill issue but tell me you stand your own against a tourney-level Goro and I will not believe you It's also what makes the game awesome, no prob with it, it's just not the super-perfect, super-balanced, super-galactic full Monty some people make it out to be.

I'm sorry to say, but that would be 2k2. I could write up a ten-page essay why but basically the game and its, uhm, acknowledged (in lack of a better word) status among ppl who know their shit speaks for itself. Which is good, coz I'm going to disengage fanboi mode now and file the rest under tastes are tastes.

 

[Taiso]

Guys, is this KoF joke week or summat? Have I missed a memo?

I wanna know before I get angry.

The only joke is thinking that Kyo, Iori, Ash and strikers aren't gay.

As for 'best' KoF, I don't really care. I just like '94 and '95 the best for nostalgic and sentimental reasons.

 

[Takumaji]

The only joke is thinking that Kyo, Iori, Ash and strikers aren't gay.

As for 'best' KoF, I don't really care. I just like '94 and '95 the best for nostalgic and sentimental reasons.

Strikers in 2k1 are the most un-gayest thing if you know how to use them to the fullest. They are kinda sorta gay in 99 and specially 2k, tho.

Kyo is boring, Iori plays great, Ash I don't care for.

 

[Neo Alec]

"Amount of samples"... Aren't the 2k1 and 2k2 OSTs ADPCM-only tracks?

No, fortunately KOF 2001 and KOF 2002 both have fully-arranged chiptunes for the YM2610. Just curious where you got the idea. Metal Slug 4?

 

[Taiso]

Strikers in 2k1 are the most un-gayest thing if you know how to use them to the fullest. They are kinda sorta gay in 99 and specially 2k, tho.

Kyo is boring, Iori plays great, Ash I don't care for.

Strikers were never needed in this series and they ultimately added nothing to a franchise that was in need of much better systems to revitalize it. And no one, NO ONE, misses them being removed from the subsequent entries where they don't appear. If someone misses strikers, they are gay and should not speak of it.

Strikers are the blender PS5 attachment no one asked for, no one wanted and no one needed.

 

[b-blanco]

I know '97 has its fans, particularly with the Korean fanbase, but it's not great. Plays better than '96. But not enough better. '98 was like, okay, let's fix everything wrong with the last two games. Which they completely accomplished.

2001 may look like shit, but it's sooooooooo much more fun to play than '99 or 2000.

Yeah 97 with the tournament tv concept was cool but it’s really kinda pointless when you can just play 98. 96 is still worth a play for characters that didn’t show up in other games and like 95 great presentation.

 

[Takumaji]

Strikers were never needed in this series and they ultimately added nothing to a franchise that was in need of much better systems to revitalize it. And no one, NO ONE, misses them being removed from the subsequent entries where they don't appear. If someone misses strikers, they are gay and should not speak of it.

Strikers are the blender PS5 attachment no one asked for, no one wanted and no one needed.

Strikers brought in a tag-style element that was fun to use if you could be arsed to it. It was buggy at first but got un-fucked with 2k1, at least that's no excuse anymore.

I guess that's 80% of the reason why people hated them, they wanted another 98 (and then they would've complained about OMG rehash) but didn't want to learn new things. Those who did soon could run rings around the lazy f00ks which boosted the striker hate. I know I was guilty of that myself but there's lots of cool shit you can do with them so there's no need to be ignorant about it.

They got taken out to make another tournament-worthy game coz 99/2k/2k1 proved to be too complex/unpredictable for that. Overall I was glad they got removed but they're better than most people think.

And what does it boil down to, as always? Eh? EH??

Skill issue.

 

[Johnny16Bit]

No, fortunately KOF 2001 and KOF 2002 both have fully-arranged chiptunes for the YM2610. Just curious where you got the idea. Metal Slug 4?

No, I just thought it sounded just like it - a studio recorded, then heavily degraded mono sound quality soundtrack.
No KoF OST ever sounded that flat before.