Trying to Review Every Neo Geo Game on Youtube

[BlackaneseNiNjA]

Definitely already been all over BBH's video. I'm only having luck with a turbo controller.

I'm not going to kill myself making this video much more than I already have. The game's difficulty is on trial no matter how you slice it.

I'm mostly interested in any facts or other information you'd like to see included.

Awesome! There’s no need for the turbo controller though, if you can stack up knockdowns on the opponent using well-timed standing drop kicks, running attacks (forward forward A or B), off-the-rope drop attacks, or by abusing your character’s standing special attack. This allows the player to win the grapple attempts much easier (basically your opponent has an invisible stamina meter that needs to be decreased before attempting a grapple). Note the way the players are depicted in the initial grapple animation; the advantaged character will be shown to have the most leverage over their opponent and vis-versa.

As with many early SNK fighting games, the cpu opponents are relentless and seem insurmountable until you identify the flaws in their attack patterns and abuse the opportunities to counter attack (or simply exploit the enemy AI) just like in Art of Fighting 2, etc. Playing aggressively and keeping damage stacked on your opponent via repeated standing or running knockdowns makes for easier wins and also makes it significantly easier for you to win the grappling matches against your opponent.

I can’t stress this enough: the player’s quick evasion move (back or forward +AB buttons) is key to avoiding possible retaliatory damage from your opponent. This move is basically the emergency evade/roll from King of Fighters and should be in constant use to maneuver yourself out of trouble, reposition your character, or to keep from getting cornered.

It’s a really misunderstood title that many don’t bother to learn and instead seek to brute force their way through the matches with turbo-fire rather than properly learning the matchups and mechanics at the player’s disposal as you would in any other SNK fighter. Perhaps that is its greatest weakness. It’s a wrestling game that plays more mechanically like a fighting game than a proper wrestling sim. 3 Count Bout and SNK’s other published wrestling title, Big Bang Pro Wrestling, are miles apart both in that aspect and in fan regard interestingly enough lol

 

[Neo Alec]

Awesome! There’s no need for the turbo controller though, if you can stack up knockdowns on the opponent using well-timed standing drop kicks, running attacks (forward forward A or B), off-the-rope drop attacks, or by abusing your character’s standing special attack. This allows the player to win the grapple attempts much easier (basically your opponent has an invisible stamina meter that needs to be decreased before attempting a grapple). Note the way the players are depicted in the initial grapple animation; the advantaged character will be shown to have the most leverage over their opponent and vis-versa.

I mean, I know all this, and yet I had an immensely better experience with the game using a turbo controller for some reason. I think I'll probably just give BBH credit in the video, mention people say it's not insurmountable and good once you get into it, and apologize that I couldn't.

I can’t stress this enough: the player’s quick evasion move (back or forward +AB buttons) is key to avoiding possible retaliatory damage from your opponent. This move is basically the emergency evade/roll from King of Fighters and should be in constant use to maneuver yourself out of trouble, reposition your character, or to keep from getting cornered.

Thanks.

It’s a really misunderstood title that many don’t bother to learn and instead seek to brute force their way through the matches with turbo-fire rather than properly learning the matchups and mechanics at the player’s disposal as you would in any other SNK fighter. Perhaps that is its greatest weakness. It’s a wrestling game that plays more mechanically like a fighting game than a proper wrestling sim. 3 Count Bout and SNK’s other published wrestling title, Big Bang Pro Wrestling, are miles apart both in that aspect and in fan regard interestingly enough lol

That's the game's fault. The stamina meter is invisible and it isn't explained to the player. Just like in King of the Monsters 2, it feels like a cheap trick to keep the coins flowing,

 

[famicommander]

Key little known fact about 3 Count Bout:
it fuckin' sux

 

[prof]

You could do a short segment where you compare each wrestler to the real life counterpart he's based on. Show them side by side. People love stuff like that.

And maybe set up the episode with an overall wrestling program motif. Eg flashy titles and graphics, and narrate in a vince mcmahon style voice. You know, for the intro and conclusion or to introduce some different segments in the episode. Like, "in this corner, from the mean streets of Osaka, it's SNK's 3 Count Bout!"

Ok, I'm making myself cringe now. This is why I dont produce videos. Haha

 

[BlackaneseNiNjA]

The stamina meter is invisible and it isn't explained to the player. Just like in King of the Monsters 2, it feels like a cheap trick to keep the coins flowing,

This could be said for the hidden stamina/dizzy meters present in pretty much every fighting game though. There is no dizzy meter visible to the player in SF2 or the majority of other FTG’s from that era. The starting animation of the characters upon initiating the grapple, always gives the player a visual indication/confirmation of the wrestler with the stamina advantage/disadvantage (the advantaged character will appear to lean further over the opponent when they initially lock).

 

[Neo Alec]

This could be said for the hidden stamina/dizzy meters present in pretty much every fighting game though. There is no dizzy meter visible to the player in SF2 or the majority of other FTG’s from that era. The starting animation of the characters upon initiating the grapple, always gives the player a visual indication/confirmation of the wrestler with the stamina advantage/disadvantage (the advantaged character will appear to lean further over the opponent when they initially lock).

That's no comparison. Being dizzy in a fighting game is self-evident. Mash the buttons to get out of it -- When and how exactly it occurs doesn't matter to most players. You don't need to know that to play well.

We're talking about feature that's key to understanding how to play 3 Count Bout.

You could do a short segment where you compare each wrestler to the real life counterpart he's based on. Show them side by side. People love stuff like that.

And maybe set up the episode with an overall wrestling program motif. Eg flashy titles and graphics, and narrate in a vince mcmahon style voice. You know, for the intro and conclusion or to introduce some different segments in the episode. Like, "in this corner, from the mean streets of Osaka, it's SNK's 3 Count Bout!"

Ok, I'm making myself cringe now. This is why I dont produce videos. Haha

Yeah, I like that you're spitballing ideas though. These kinds of things have to be planned out really well. It's all going to depend on what I'm able to get put together and feel satisfied with.

 

[BlackaneseNiNjA]

That's no comparison. Being dizzy in a fighting game is self-evident. Mash the buttons to get out of it -- When and how exactly it occurs doesn't matter to most players.

Come on Neo Alec, you know as well as I do that a dizzy status in any 90’s fighting game from that era can mean instant death in any competitive player match. FTG’s started adding stamina, block, and break status gauges to their games for that very reason, to give players a better understanding of how and when that status would occur in their matches. This isn’t a King of the Monsters 2 situation. Unlike in that game, in 3 Count, the player is free to use grapples, locks, and followups as viable and reliable tools against the cpu opponents.

Mash the buttons to get out of it -- When and how exactly it occurs doesn't matter to most players. You don't need to know that to play well.

We're talking about feature that's key to understanding how to play 3 Count Bout.

In 3 Count Bout, in a versus player match it is also possible to mash the button faster than the opponent to overcome the initial grapple disadvantage.

Here are some Mikado versus matches to give you an idea of what I’m referring to. Watch the clashes from 17:00-18:00 (particularly 17:52):

Don’t get me wrong. 3 Count Bout isn’t a hill worth dying on. My point is that there is plenty going on in the game mechanically and that many simply prematurely write the gameplay off by repeating the old “auto-fire is the only way to win” quote.

 

[Neo Alec]

Don’t get me wrong. 3 Count Bout isn’t a hill worth dying on. My point is that there is plenty going on in the game mechanically and that many simply prematurely write the gameplay off by repeating the old “auto-fire is the only way to win” quote.

But I'm not. I read the strategies, watched the videos. Both my brothers tried to play tag team. I made them watch the key part of the BBH video too. We were excited to try it. We all walked away very disappointed and frustrated. Frankly, the game has so much potential, but we felt like we had our time wasted. It already takes me a month to make the videos as is -- I can't 1CC everything.

Thanks for linking your post in the 1CC thread, and the video.

I'm really not feeling making this video.

 

[BlackaneseNiNjA]

You could do a short segment where you compare each wrestler to the real life counterpart he's based on. Show them side by side. People love stuff like that.

+1
SNK always pulled character ideas from popular culture, manga, anime, etc at the time. They didn’t hide their influences for this one at all lol

Red Dragon=Great Muta, etc

 

[yagamikun]

Interesting discussion. While I'm not much of a fan of 3CB as a package, for me the fun of the game comes in playing 2-player, much like AOF2.

In single player, not everyone has the patience of 16 collective saints to figure out how to work around the hellaciously difficulty AI - and in a real arcade, the money of 16 saints. There's an okay game under the hood, sure, but it can't be understated that it is because of the AI that many people wont and haven't put the time into games like 3CB or AOF2 if they don't have a P2 to play with.

Arcade games should be difficult - they are literally money making machines. At the same time, they should also be just fun enough so you want to put in another quarter/yen/what have you to try again. I think there is an argument here that there are a few SNK titles that are so difficult it hurt the game's long-term appeal. And you know what, I think that's 100% valid.

SNK games are still by and large incredible fun, and even 3CB, when played with another human, becomes a different game all together. Maybe take it from that angle? Hell, I'd be happy to jump on fightcade with you and run some bouts to learn the ins and outs.

 

[BlackaneseNiNjA]

But I'm not. I read the strategies, watched the videos. Both my brothers tried to play tag team. I made them watch the key part of the BBH video too. We were excited to try it. We all walked away very disappointed and frustrated. Frankly, the game has so much potential, but we felt like we had our time wasted. It already takes me a month to make the videos as is -- I'm can't 1CC everything.

Thanks for linking your post in the 1CC thread, and the video.

I'm really not feeling making this video.

Yo no worries dude, that statement wasn’t meant to call you out in particular. That’s just where most (english) write-ups regarding the mechanics begin and end (BBH noted the same lack of english resources when he started his 1CC attempts). Your content always reflects a lot of well-researched material, no need to stress over it. We appreciate your passion

 

[Neo Alec]

Hell, I'd be happy to jump on fightcade with you and run some bouts to learn the ins and outs.

Not a bad idea. Maybe someone who knows what they're doing has time to help train a little.

 

[Tarma]

It's one of the few games that I hate that I'd really like to love - the presentation is awesome, but that difficulty curve.... forget it.

 

[kernow]

Yougube

 

[KGRAMR]

It's one of the few games that I hate that I'd really like to love - the presentation is awesome, but that difficulty curve.... forget it.

The few times i have played 3CB, it has kicked my ass right on the second stage

 

[Neo Alec]

No 3 Count Bout video quite yet, but in the meantime, here's something new:

 

[max 330 megafartz]

No 3 Count Bout video quite yet, but in the meantime, here's something new:

Just watched it. Great video as always. Game looks pretty good in my opinion!

 

[NeoSeeD]

No 3 Count Bout video quite yet, but in the meantime, here's something new:

I have mixed feelings about this. On one hand, the dev is taking a risk by releasing a tate shmup on an ecosystem that wasn't designed for them. On another hand, the Genesis shmups that are due for release soon like Earthion and even ZPF blow this away graphically. They will likely blow it away audio-wise as well. The SNES has Rex Nobilis, a shmup in development that looks similar but still superior to this and isn't in tate mode.

A high priced Neo cart only game that is graphically inferior to games on less powerful consoles that is also forced into an orientation that most people can't use is going to be a hard sell imo.

 

[max 330 megafartz]

I have mixed feelings about this. On one hand, the dev is taking a risk by releasing a tate shmup on an ecosystem that wasn't designed for them. On another hand, the Genesis shmups that are due for release soon like Earthion and even ZPF blow this away graphically. They will likely blow it away audio-wise as well. The SNES has Rex Nobilis, a shmup in development that looks similar but still superior to this and isn't in tate mode.

A high priced Neo cart only game that is graphically inferior to games on less powerful consoles that is also forced into an orientation that most people can't use is going to be a hard sell imo.

I see your points here dude, but sega gonna do what snk-kant and nintendo-didnt. Dont compare the best to the rest

 

[Neo Alec]

I have mixed feelings about this. On one hand, the dev is taking a risk by releasing a tate shmup on an ecosystem that wasn't designed for them. On another hand, the Genesis shmups that are due for release soon like Earthion and even ZPF blow this away graphically. They will likely blow it away audio-wise as well. The SNES has Rex Nobilis, a shmup in development that looks similar but still superior to this and isn't in tate mode.

A high priced Neo cart only game that is graphically inferior to games on less powerful consoles that is also forced into an orientation that most people can't use is going to be a hard sell imo.

Don't forget Neo XYX. We went through this whole tate song and dance a decade ago.

 

[NeoSeeD]

Don't forget Neo XYX. We went through this whole tate song and dance a decade ago.

I'm not familiar with Neo XYX, so I'll have to check reviews on it at some point.

 

[Neo Alec]

So because Earthion is coming, which looks fantastic and has serious proven talent behind it, no one else should try to make anything?

 

[NeoSeeD]

I'm not sure where it was said that Neo devs should quit because other devs are making better looking games on less powerful hardware. I'm simply stating the obvious, an expensive game that is in a niche of a niche and borderline unplayable for many setups is going to have an uphill battle in terms of sales.

 

[famicommander]

I'm not sure where it was said that Neo devs should quit because other devs are making better looking games on less powerful hardware. I'm simply stating the obvious, an expensive game that is in a niche of a niche and borderline unplayable for many setups is going to have an uphill battle in terms of sales.

People who buy 400 dollar Neo Geo carts in 2024 don't actually play video games to begin with. They buy them to put on the shelf next to the other ones.

 

[Neo Alec]

I'm not sure where it was said that Neo devs should quit because other devs are making better looking games on less powerful hardware. I'm simply stating the obvious, an expensive game that is in a niche of a niche and borderline unplayable for many setups is going to have an uphill battle in terms of sales.

And if I can also state the obvious, there's no game that's worth $400. This is definitely not for everyone.