Captain Barrel, new Neo Geo game

[NeoSeeD]

The obvious reason a lot of the indie devs don't do NGCD is because as soon as you do, there are bootlegs everywhere.



For the 'name your price' rom releases it shouldn't be an issue though. Also, the porting of games that don't fit into the NGCD's memory take some effort.

Johnny stated that it's not a piracy thing. Obviously that doesn't speak for all devs, but it was an interesting answer. Regarding bootlegs, the DC is just as easy as the NGCD and the PSP is probably the easiest of all. I've seen far more hacked PSP's than stock ones.

To your second point, yeah, I'm sure that the NGCD memory constraints do require effort (as does all programming, really), but does it take more effort than rewriting code for an entirely different platform that's just as easily pirated? It's not like the devs are reverse engineering another developers code and having to rewrite it (insert loading screens, etc) for the CD. They have their own code.

 

[Neo Alec]

Johnny stated that it's not a piracy thing. Obviously that doesn't speak for all devs, but it was an interesting answer. Regarding bootlegs, the DC is just as easy as the NGCD and the PSP is probably the easiest of all. I've seen far more hacked PSP's than stock ones.

I'm not talking about Captain Barrel. I'm thinking more of some of the other ones currently in the pipeline from other devs.

I've had this argument before in another thread... Bootlegs on other systems are one thing, but bootlegs on Neo Geo are a bit different.

To your second point, yeah, I'm sure that the NGCD memory constraints do require effort (as does all programming, really), but does it take more effort than rewriting code for an entirely different platform that's just as easily pirated? It's not like the devs are reverse engineering another developers code and having to rewrite it (insert loading screens, etc) for the CD. They have their own code.

No, and I don't disagree with that.

 

[Burning Fight!!]

why would anyone care about garden variety piracy in 2024. waste of fucking effort imo.

however:

I wouldn't want assholes making bank off my game with "lovely crafted repros" either so if anyone doing homebrews mention this as a reason for not doing downloads/CD I'm all for it

 

[terry.330]

It's always funny to see a new home cart announced and then also putting it on a bunch of other platforms. I understand why (and honestly it would be stupid not to) but to me that usually just makes a game that already feels like it shouldn't be on the Neo in the first place feel even more like a needless port.

Dev: Here's a new Neo game!
Consumer: That doesn't look like a Neo game...
Dev: PS: it's also on a bunch of other platforms!
Consumer: Yeah, that's definitely not a Neo game

It's a double edged sword.

 

[Johnny16Bit]

Johnny stated that it's not a piracy thing. Obviously that doesn't speak for all devs, but it was an interesting answer. Regarding bootlegs, the DC is just as easy as the NGCD and the PSP is probably the easiest of all. I've seen far more hacked PSP's than stock ones.

To your second point, yeah, I'm sure that the NGCD memory constraints do require effort (as does all programming, really), but does it take more effort than rewriting code for an entirely different platform that's just as easily pirated? It's not like the devs are reverse engineering another developers code and having to rewrite it (insert loading screens, etc) for the CD. They have their own code.

Our PSP games only run on hacked PSPs, we can't sell discs of thse.
Re: the difficulty of porting to neoCD vs DC... It really depends, on the game & on the code. But they both require some effort - for production as well. As you may have seen from recent examples, limited CD production does have a couple unsuspected pitfalls.
Finally, we have yet to verify this, but we suspect that while the DC is "niche", the neoCD is "ultra-niche".

It's always funny to see a new home cart announced and then also putting it on a bunch of other platforms. I understand why (and honestly it would be stupid not to) but to me that usually just makes a game that already feels like it shouldn't be on the Neo in the first place feel even more like a needless port.

Dev: Here's a new Neo game!
Consumer: That doesn't look like a Neo game...
Dev: PS: it's also on a bunch of other platforms!
Consumer: Yeah, that's definitely not a Neo game

It's a double edged sword.

I hear you - today, most ports are towards better hardware so they are as good, if not better.
But our initial development being for the Neo, it necessarily conditions the game, and bears the mark of the possibilities and limitations of the system. It doesn't make everything, and I know you guys would like graphics that have that 1990s flair, but it's at least part of it, and not subject to personal appreciations & biases. And also, I'm sure none will find our games "bland", "casual", "modern" or "mainstream".

In the end we just hope you guys will get to play it, enjoy it, and at least think that after all, expensive cart purchase or not, it's still pretty cool to have the possibility to have this running on your old Neo in 2024.

 

[BIG BEAR]

Probably be a lot more interesting If the pirate guy was battling against human crew members as he navigates through a merchant ship he boarded...
BB

 

[Johnny16Bit]

Here are the basics in motion:

 

[NeoSeeD]

Our PSP games only run on hacked PSPs, we can't sell discs of thse.
Re: the difficulty of porting to neoCD vs DC... It really depends, on the game & on the code. But they both require some effort - for production as well. As you may have seen from recent examples, limited CD production does have a couple unsuspected pitfalls.
Finally, we have yet to verify this, but we suspect that while the DC is "niche", the neoCD is "ultra-niche".

Quick search shows DC @10.6 million sold vs Neo CD @540k and the AES/MVS at somewhere around a Million units. I'm sure there's at least one stats guy here who has more accurate info.

I can't speak for others, but for me to buy something for my AES at an AES price, it would have to be on par or better than an official release. Regarding the DC, unless it's something at the level of Metal Slug 6, Dolphin Blue or Atomiswave KOF's, and it has DC specific features (VMU integration, 4 player Co-op, etc.) I wouldn't buy a 2D game for it.

My NGCD with loader gives me the option to play a disc image at >4x speed, making it a great experience closer to an AES/MVS and at a reasonable price for a 16 bit game. Plus, since it's so starved for software, I try and support what gets released for it (Again, this would vary on quality.) so that devs are encouraged to keep developing for it.

A recent example is Xeno Crisis. Picked it up for the Neo CD, Genesis/MD and SNES but skipped it for the DC and the AES. 95% the same experience, 10x less the price but still supported the dev. Loads blazing fast on the SD loader, but I still have the manual and official disc in my collection. I do miss the AES/MVS exclusive voices during cutscenes though.

All that said, you might make more money putting these games up on the Switch eShop if that's not already on your radar.

 

[Neo Alec]

A recent example is Xeno Crisis. Picked it up for the Neo CD, Genesis/MD and SNES but skipped it for the DC and the AES. 95% the same experience, 10x less the price but still supported the dev. Loads blazing fast on the SD loader, but I still have the manual and official disc in my collection. I do miss the AES/MVS exclusive voices during cutscenes though.

Xeno Crisis only loads once at boot, so the load speed is a nonissue.

 

[Fygee]

Looks decently fun, though it screams of something I'd play on an iPhone 4 instead of a Neo-Geo. Just seems kind of unnecessary to be on the platform for what it is?

Sure as hell isn't going to be worth a multi-hundred dollar MVS/AES cart.

That said, still cool that there's some decent quality development on the Neo and it's not going to be a long wait with kickstarter nonsense like too many others.

 

[Neo Alec]

We seem to have the same debate anytime someone makes a new homebrew game for the Neo. Neo Byte Force is doing a rom release again, so no harm no foul. Cartridges are going to cost hundreds based on the cost of materials alone, and they are available to those who want them.

 

[NeoSeeD]

Xeno Crisis only loads once at boot, so the load speed is a nonissue.

Yes, but that first and only load is much faster vs when I run the disc.

 

[stormy]

 

[Orpheus]

Just a number, may be 500, 600, 700, doesn't really matter to me as I won't buy the homecart anyway. However, if there's a NGCD version available down the line, count me in.

Back in the day I gladly paid the price for a new game on homecart coz you got awesome stuff that was arcade perfect and couldn't be had anywhere else. If a new game would manage to at least come a little closer to that thrill than a single-screen platformer, as great as it may be, things would look quite different for me.

Still, I don't want to belittle your efforts, I'm sure there's more to it than it seems at first sight.

This.

It's always funny to see a new home cart announced and then also putting it on a bunch of other platforms. I understand why (and honestly it would be stupid not to) but to me that usually just makes a game that already feels like it shouldn't be on the Neo in the first place feel even more like a needless port.

Dev: Here's a new Neo game!
Consumer: That doesn't look like a Neo game...
Dev: PS: it's also on a bunch of other platforms!
Consumer: Yeah, that's definitely not a Neo game

....and this.

If it's for the neo then it should be developed on the hardware from the ground up......not using open source graphic packs. I realized those packs were a "thing" when I saw a post for the game "Jump & Run". It looked great but then I realized it was from an open source praphic pack like this.

I'm also getting sick of almost all of this indies being "homages' to games of the past that are more like watered down rip offs where the devs think they are being coy, like they are hiding the fact that thet lack originality & better talent. We have Pulstar.....we have metal slug. The point is not to try to copy that shit poorly.....it's to take the basic formula.....do your ORIGINAL take & try to make a better offering SOMEHOW & SOMEHERE....be in gamepley mechancs, graphics, sound, etc.

This is why NITD is such a gem. I'm not a pro at all the details & lore of games like it from the past but it was a fresh take on an existing game formula that worked so well. A big part of this was it's overall aesthetic, graphics & music/sound. NITD is not large in size/scope or memory. It is simple, very well executed and most of all charming & endearing to many due to it's look & sound which is what makes it so enjoyable & momorable. That game was a "one & done" by a small studio & it just goes to show that you don't have to make a neo game a fighter or an homage to a top tier, high production shmup to create a great game worthy of the hardware.

Whe you see how indie games like Cuphead & Sonic Mania turned out you realize there is no reason that a small group of indie devs can't make a (type of) game as effective as NITD on the Neo Geo again. The reality is that the bar is not all that incredibly high as long as you have some actual talent in the form of creativity & coding skill.

The Neo Geo CD is the best choice for indie/homebrew games like the one presented here in this thread. It's not worthy of carts.

If I'm being bluntly honest I was never into indie stuff, particularly home carts, because the lincensing issues effected the logo's on the artwork & I'll be damned if i'm paying $500 & more for them & then not having proper artwork (especially inserts) that don't match the SNK originals. The LEAST a dev can do to avoide the wrath of SNK & appease buyers is to work up proper, high-res art for people to download & then have printed out themselves.

For that reason alone it's CD first & then MVS second with me when it comes to indie dev games. Home carts are useless penis extension when you can h=just use an MVS adapter.

I don't mean to disparage the OP/Dev of this but thats the way I see it. A proper Neo CD rev is something I would do....and pay good for if it was done right.

 

[HellioN]

I appreciate the effort people go through to make these games.
In some cases it's Herculean.
At the end of the day, for me, something just ends up missing.
It's a feeling that can't be replicated.
I just can't get excited.
Keep up the work though, if nothing else it means our beloved NEO•GEO will never truly die.

 

[Yamazaki]

Game looks like it could run on a GB Advance....


Sorry but most of the indie games of the last years mostly looked like cheap Nokia games...

the Hellwig brothers did bring out some really cool stuff but then again their sales ethics are crap..

 

[Neo Alec]

Game looks like it could run on a GB Advance....

I'm not sure your point. Isn't that true of every Neo Geo game minus the resolution and total memory?

 

[Yamazaki]

I'd say stuff like Garou, AoF3 etc. are master pieces of 2D programming and wouldn't be possible.

my point is that the Neo Geo was famed back in the day for it's power - developing games that not even use a bit of that power and sell them at a high price seems no efforts at all to me.


at least NGDev put in some effort to utilize the Neo Geo's capabilities.

 

[Johnny16Bit]

I'm also getting sick of almost all of this indies being "homages' to games of the past that are more like watered down rip offs where the devs think they are being coy, like they are hiding the fact that thet lack originality & better talent. We have Pulstar.....we have metal slug. The point is not to try to copy that shit poorly.....it's to take the basic formula.....do your ORIGINAL take & try to make a better offering SOMEHOW & SOMEHERE....be in gamepley mechancs, graphics, sound, etc.

Well it's our intention - to some extent.
We have no interest in trying to reinvent the wheel, and we have no interest in making something "modern" on an old system. We like the old games, we want ours to play like them, with just a little twist so they are not redundant with them.

This is why NITD is such a gem. I'm not a pro at all the details & lore of games like it from the past but it was a fresh take on an existing game formula that worked so well. A big part of this was it's overall aesthetic, graphics & music/sound. NITD is not large in size/scope or memory. It is simple, very well executed and most of all charming & endearing to many due to it's look & sound which is what makes it so enjoyable & momorable. That game was a "one & done" by a small studio & it just goes to show that you don't have to make a neo game a fighter or an homage to a top tier, high production shmup to create a great game worthy of the hardware.

Whe you see how indie games like Cuphead & Sonic Mania turned out you realize there is no reason that a small group of indie devs can't make a (type of) game as effective as NITD on the Neo Geo again. The reality is that the bar is not all that incredibly high as long as you have some actual talent in the form of creativity & coding skill.

Well, the reality... I don't think you know what the reality is.
Developing on the NG with the tools currently available really is not comparable to developing on Unity or other modern languages. Not saying it's rocket science, but it certainly isn't as easy as you seem to imagine it.
And even if we do get some help, particularly for playtesting, we are a team of two, for the entire process.

I don't mean to disparage the OP/Dev of this but thats the way I see it. A proper Neo CD rev is something I would do....and pay good for if it was done right.

No offense taken, there's some to take and some to leave in the criticism but we appreciate the interest and time taken to post it.
I hope you'll get to play our game, one way or another, and will enjoy it.

my point is that the Neo Geo was famed back in the day for it's power - developing games that not even use a bit of that power and sell them at a high price seems no efforts at all to me.

at least NGDev put in some effort to utilize the Neo Geo's capabilities.

We are putting some effort. Making a game is an effort.
Making one for the neo geo is a greater effort.
And the high price, well you don't have to pay it. CF is on Steam currently for $12.

If you want to compare us to NGDev... Okay, but do it fairly, and as a whole. We too admire the result they got to. But I'm sure you'll admit it wasn't immediate, and didn't come without any counterparts.

Thanks.

 

[HeavyMachineGoob]

I'd be up for a ROM purchase for my NeoSD.

 

[NeoCverA]

I'd be up for a ROM purchase for my NeoSD.

this game is perfect for an Analogue Pocket.

 

[Johnny16Bit]

Some more gameplay videos illustrating how the Bomb item affects play and allows you to tailor the difficulty to your goals: survival or high score.

If you want to play safe, you can just grab the bomb and fire away:

If you want to target the highest score, you use barrels only, and avoid picking up the bomb (it turns into a diamond once the screen is cleared)

 

[bloodfire3]

Some more gameplay videos illustrating how the Bomb item affects play and allows you to tailor the difficulty to your goals: survival or high score.

If you want to play safe, you can just grab the bomb and fire away:

If you want to target the highest score, you use barrels only, and avoid picking up the bomb (it turns into a diamond once the screen is cleared)

Looks fun! Did you say if a rom would be purchasable in the future for a darksoft MVS?

 

[Johnny16Bit]

Looks fun! Did you say if a rom would be purchasable in the future for a darksoft MVS?

Yes, just like with Cyborg Force, we'll make the rom available in several ready-made formats (neoSD, DarkSoft, Analogue Pocket, MVSX/ASP/mini etc).
Thanks.

 

[Viewpoint]

All in all this game looks neat. With the amount of crap that's come out over the years this is something slightly different to see. Pricewise I'd have to go with Tak's suggestion and hope a Neo CD version happens.