Not sure where else to put this. Video on the similarities of groups

fake

King of Typists
Listen...I get it, you don't like Republicans...but man, you really need to take a step back and look at that list of yours. Are you seriously implying that you "R" list are all Republican exclusives? Really?

It's not necessarily that I don't like republicans. It's face value. I would add a lot of corporate bribing and whatnot to the D list, by the way.

You're right that dems had a hand in certain things like the Middle East wars. But I think that A, a lot of those bullet points are pretty specific, and B, if there is shared guilt in those bullet points, Rs take the vast majority of the responsibility. Take gerrymandering for example. Even the wars, dems' judgements were based on evidence falsified by republicans.
 
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Tripredacus

赤裸裸的汽車&#
Can you give some examples? Because here's how I see it, just off the top of my head...

R:
- Insurrection
- Voter disenfranchisement (USPS, ballot boxes, shutting down polling stations, etc.)
[1] Gerrymandering
- Refusing to hear SCJ nominee
- Quid pro quo at the presidential level
[2] Pardoning convicted racists and war criminals
[3] Massive COVID fuckup
[4] Separating kids from parents and putting them in cages
- Attempts to dismantle ACA / "repeal and replace"
- Countless emoluments violations
- Killing Dodd Frank
[5] Increased taxes for the non-rich
- Attempts to kill House Ethics Committee
[6] Constant conspiracy theories (e.g., Uranium One)
- Deflecting the correlation between intelligence and liberalism by creating a narrative that colleges are communist brain washing programs
[7] Middle East wars
[8] 2008 financial crisis

D:
- Her emails
- Benghazi
- Tan suit
- Blow job

[1] Gerrymandering: non-partisan
[2] No apparent war criminals pardoned by Obama but at least one by Clinton. What is your cut-off for the comparison here?
[3] Executive power is limited in this type of scenario, can see a larger portion of blame being applied to State Governors instead.
[4] The locations specifically built to hold children were built in 2014 and were specifically for temporarily holding unaccompanied children. As I take it for this complaint to be under R, the complain must be that R didn't close these facilities once Trump was elected.
[5] ??? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Progr...Average_US_Federal_Tax_Rates_1979_to_2013.png
[6] Non-partisan
[7] So D gets a pass for not pulling out of Iraq and Afghanistan, and going into Syria. R gets a fail for not pulling out of Iraq, Afghanistan and Syria.
[8] Non-partisan.

IDK what tan suit is.
You forgot these for D
- Fast & Furious
- Drone strikes on non-combatants and US civilians
- Snowden
- Guantanamo promised to close, didn't.
- IRS targeting
- NDAA

I'm sure if you sat down and did a side by side comparison, you'd find they have both done a large amount of terrible things. Trying to say one is better than the other is like trying to convince someone your diarreah spells better than theirs. Its still shit.
 

ebinsugewa

Juzoh's Gym Trainer
Likewise. Your simple minded certainty along with your hypocrisy and lack of self-awareness regarding hand-waving make you a much bigger problem.

my 'certainty', as you call it, is based on a review of the available facts to me. you have provided zero examples of how i've been a hypocrite nor any about how both sides are truly the same. you can hate my guts, i don't give a single fuck. but at least tell me why i'm wrong. if you're going to talk the talk, then walk the walk man

i don't mean to imply that there are zero similarities between the two parties. they are very alike in many ways, most notably the glorification of corporatism and support for the revolving door of lobbying, PACs, and other ways of influencing elections and policy with money.

but one party is currently struggling with deciding if literal occupation of a government building and murder plots against government officials are ok. if you don't see that i don't know if we live in the same country.
 

fake

King of Typists
[1] Gerrymandering: non-partisan
[2] No apparent war criminals pardoned by Obama but at least one by Clinton. What is your cut-off for the comparison here?
[3] Executive power is limited in this type of scenario, can see a larger portion of blame being applied to State Governors instead.
[4] The locations specifically built to hold children were built in 2014 and were specifically for temporarily holding unaccompanied children. As I take it for this complaint to be under R, the complain must be that R didn't close these facilities once Trump was elected.
[5] ??? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Progr...Average_US_Federal_Tax_Rates_1979_to_2013.png
[6] Non-partisan
[7] So D gets a pass for not pulling out of Iraq and Afghanistan, and going into Syria. R gets a fail for not pulling out of Iraq, Afghanistan and Syria.
[8] Non-partisan.

[1] Gerrymandering is absolutely partisan and republicans are by far the more egregious offenders. Link. Link.

[2] I'd consider Clinton fair game. But I don't know who you're referring to as a war criminal. Trump pardoned four Black Water contractors who killed 14 civilians (two of them children) and injured 17. One of the contractors is a convicted murderer, while the other three have been convicted of manslaughter. Trump also pardoned Joe Arpaio, who was held in contempt of a court order to stop using his position as sheriff to harass and inappropriately jail non-whites.

[3] Trump downplayed COVID and let it spread as it originally was only hitting liberal populations. He refused to take any initiative, pushed quack medicine, and had no messaging around wearing masks and maintaining social distancing. This trickled down to his underlings and to the public. This is, in large part, why will break 400,000 US COVID deaths in the next few hours or days.

[4] Thanks for pointing out another conspiracy theory example for me. This is such bullshit. The Obama administration did not separate kids from their parents. It did not lose track of children, permanently separating them. Read about why the facilities were built under the Obama administration and what the Trump administration used them for. There is a difference. Link.

[5] I'm not sure what you're trying to convey with that image. It only goes to 2013. Trump's tax reform was in 2017. The rich benefitted far far more than anyone else. Link.

[6] What are some liberal conspiracy theories? Or do you think that Russian meddling was a conspiracy theory? I can easily go beyond Uranium One. Just recently, the idea of massive voter fraud. Biden-Ukrain. The Deep State. Seth Rich. I can keep going. Do democrats peddle this level of bullshit? Do they do so nearly as frequently as republicans?

[7] That's fair, especially Syria.

[8] How is the 2008 financial crisis bipartisan? The main driver was republicans' deregulation of the financial industry throughout the '90s and 2000s. Link.

IDK what tan suit is.
You forgot these for D
- Fast & Furious
- Drone strikes on non-combatants and US civilians
- Snowden
- Guantanamo promised to close, didn't.
- IRS targeting
- NDAA

I'm sure if you sat down and did a side by side comparison, you'd find they have both done a large amount of terrible things. Trying to say one is better than the other is like trying to convince someone your diarreah spells better than theirs. Its still shit.

You're right - I did think a few of these while I was writing the Rs list, but forgot to put them down. TBH I did forget about Snowden and Fast & Furious, though. The tan suit was when Obama wore a tan suit and Fox News freaked out and it was very unpresidential, etc. I'm not sure what the democratic issue of NDAA is. The IRS targeting thing was another BS episode. There was no evidence of "enemy hunting" and even Trump's inspector general came up empty handed.

****

In summary, you've checked me on a small number of things. You were wrong or misinformed about a bunch. And you didn't address a bunch. So if we're keeping tally, I see vastly goopier, steamier pool of diarrhea on one side. Which is my entire point. One side is trying to improve things / help people and fucks up. The other side is trying to fuck things and fuck people and fucks up. Yes, those are broad strokes and there are very fine people on both sides. But in summation, I think it's a fairly accurate picture.
 

smokehouse

I was Born This Ugly.,
[2] I'd consider Clinton fair game. But I don't know who you're referring to as a war criminal. Trump pardoned four Black Water contractors who killed 14 civilians (two of them children) and injured 17. One of the contractors is a convicted murderer, while the other three have been convicted of manslaughter. Trump also pardoned Joe Arpaio, who was held in contempt of a court order to stop using his position as sheriff to harass and inappropriately jail non-whites.

Pretty sure he means:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Susan_Rosenberg

...and citing the Washington Post and The Center for American Progress...two clearly left leaning places as sources for your info, is kinda horse shit. The Washington Post is as left as the Drudge is right.

[8] How is the 2008 financial crisis bipartisan? The main driver was republicans' deregulation of the financial industry throughout the '90s and 2000s. Link.

Honestly? I blame much of 2008 crash on the Clinton Admin's push for massive subprime lending and banks giving home loans to anyone with a pulse in the early 2000's

https://www.wsj.com/articles/SB10001424127887323477604579000571334113350

You may also want to fully read that article you posted, many of those acts that lead up to 2008 were penned by democrats...the last one was signed by Clinton.
 
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Lagduf

If I change my Custom, Rank. I lose The 15YR Tag.,
We can blame both parties for the gross expansion of executive power.
 

fake

King of Typists
Pretty sure he means:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Susan_Rosenberg

...and citing the Washington Post and The Center for American Progress...two clearly left leaning places as sources for your info, is kinda horse shit. The Washington Post is as left as the Drudge is right.



Honestly? I blame much of 2008 crash on the Clinton Admin's push for massive subprime lending and banks giving home loans to anyone with a pulse in the early 2000's

https://www.wsj.com/articles/SB10001424127887323477604579000571334113350

You may also want to fully read that article you posted, many of those acts that lead up to 2008 were penned by democrats...the last one was signed by Clinton.

Thanks - But wasn't she convicted on firearms charges and given like 50+ years in jail? IIRC, he pardoned her because she had served the standard amount of time for the crimes she was convicted of, and her prison conditions were considered cruel and unusual. I don't think that should necessarily amount to a pardon, based on things she did that she wasn't convicted of. But I feel like pardoning four actual killers is worse than pardoning a terrorist who didn't actually kill anyone.

There's a difference between a publication skewing left/right and a publication being reliable. Regardless, Washington Post is not as left as Drudge is right and is rated much more highly for factual reporting. CFAP actually scores higher than Drudge. Does NBC News work for you? Here you go: https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-new...ring-has-benefited-gop-analysis-shows-n776436 - look more into Hofeller.

There's a paywall on your link (it's marked as an opinion piece, by the way). Republicans supported the Financial Services Modernization Act / GLBA. This let financial institutions mix commercial and investment banking (i.e., securitizing loans). Meanwhile, the W admin let banks run wild. Yes, the Community Reinvestment Act was a factor in the crisis. Would that alone cause the 2008 crisis? I really doubt it, but I'm not a money expert. [edit: take https://www.cbsnews.com/news/heres-what-really-caused-housing-crisis/ into consideration.] Would the GLBA and W's "free market" shenanigans cause the 2008 crisis? Seems less like a stretch to me.
 
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evil wasabi

The Jongmaster
Staff member
As someone who studied and wrote his research paper in law school on the adoption of Gramm Leach Bliley, I can tell what happened. The bill was introduced under Clinton, but that's not the bill anyone saw in action.

The changes that Gramm Leach Bliley went through from 2001-2006 were all thanks to the GOP, who, in their sage wisdom, asked the banking industry to make the bill work for them. The original bill was considered too restrictive for the banks to support and required regulations that neither a republican administration nor the banks wanted to indulge.

It went back and forth over the years, and often the government tried to make it have more regulation involved, but in the end, it was what we saw from late 2006-2008. I'm not saying I predicted it. My conclusion was that Gramm Leach Bliley was a complete mess and that they should have kept Glass Steagall.
 

ebinsugewa

Juzoh's Gym Trainer
Pretty sure you don't both live in the same country.
Think he lives in Japan, do you live there too?

i don't fuckin know dude i don't subscribe to his livejournal.

if you don't live in the US it seems like even less of a reason to comment on american politics but what do i know
 

Tripredacus

赤裸裸的汽車&#
[1] Gerrymandering is absolutely partisan and republicans are by far the more egregious offenders. Link. Link.

[2] I'd consider Clinton fair game. But I don't know who you're referring to as a war criminal. Trump pardoned four Black Water contractors who killed 14 civilians (two of them children) and injured 17. One of the contractors is a convicted murderer, while the other three have been convicted of manslaughter. Trump also pardoned Joe Arpaio, who was held in contempt of a court order to stop using his position as sheriff to harass and inappropriately jail non-whites.

[3] Trump downplayed COVID and let it spread as it originally was only hitting liberal populations. He refused to take any initiative, pushed quack medicine, and had no messaging around wearing masks and maintaining social distancing. This trickled down to his underlings and to the public. This is, in large part, why will break 400,000 US COVID deaths in the next few hours or days.

[5] I'm not sure what you're trying to convey with that image. It only goes to 2013. Trump's tax reform was in 2017. The rich benefitted far far more than anyone else. Link.

[6] What are some liberal conspiracy theories? Or do you think that Russian meddling was a conspiracy theory? I can easily go beyond Uranium One. Just recently, the idea of massive voter fraud. Biden-Ukrain. The Deep State. Seth Rich. I can keep going. Do democrats peddle this level of bullshit? Do they do so nearly as frequently as republicans?

I'm not sure what the democratic issue of NDAA is.

[1] Information regarding gerrymandering for 2012-2020 seems to favor Republican, but what I cannot find is the success percentage of gerrymandered districts per party. In other words, we know that any party can do it and it doesn't matter if the Republicans made out better, what is the breakdown between who did the gerrymandering vs who won the districts? What is the information for the previous decades? Otherwise it just seems to be "they did better, they must have cheated" type response.
Ref: https://www.americanprogress.org/is.../10/01/475166/impact-partisan-gerrymandering/

[2] Herschel L. Brantley. The Blackwater situations was a huge fuck up that happened between both those mercenaries and the Iraqi police forces. Both the Blackwater and Iraqi testimony confirmed that the Iraqi police engaged the mercenaries. That was a no win situation. I'm not sure that it qualified them to be war criminals.

[3] There wasn't concensus on what the response to COVID was supposed to be in the beginning from anyone. After all these years of it being obvious that the president was an idiot, why would you have cared what he said anyways? What initiative should have been taken? All of the complaints I have read over the months about "Trump should have done this" we wanting him to do things that he didn't have the power to do. Mandate all citizens do something? Those powers are not granted. The irony of people yelling that he was a dictator in one breath and then wanting him to dictate in the other. Can't have it both ways. I do not remember hearing anything about quack medicine. What I do remember is dummy politicians talking about something they heard about like it was a miracle cure and on the other hand the media destroying the idea simply because they hated the person who talked about it. They didn't care about the facts, no one reported on those facts. They just find something they didn't like and declare the whole thing to be false.

[5] Are you a recent immigrant to the US? News flash, the rich benefit from everything, no matter who is running the country.

[6] None of the ones you listed I see as being partisan in any way. Any US Citizen that puts country over party would have no issue with any one, no matter what their political affiliation, to be investigated if a crime had occurred. The Seth Rich things seems to be a loose string, I am not convinced he was involved with the data transfer to Wikileaks. The only reason why people think that is because of Assange saying at the time. The Deep State is not a conspiracy theory, it is a part of the government. The actual "theory" on that was the Deep State was just full of Obama people and were working against Trump. I'm sure there were some, but the Deep State is just like everything else, a big mismash of ideologies and there is always infighting and always will be, especially the larger the government grows. But anyways, yet Democrats do "peddle this bullshit" more than Republicans because Democrats have more news channels in their pocket than Republicans.

Also wanted to point out that you most likely have to be a liberal to even consider believing in a conspiracy theory. That's another reason why these labels do not really work. There are no hardcore liberals (besides Anarchists) or hardcore conservatives (besides maybe religious zealots). Everyone is a blend of both.

NDAA is the same issue as the Patriot Act. Laws passed that allow the targeting of US citizens or civilians as enemy combatants.
 

TonK

Least Valuable Player
[1] Information regarding gerrymandering for 2012-2020 seems to favor Republican, but what I cannot find is the success percentage of gerrymandered districts per party. In other words, we know that any party can do it and it doesn't matter if the Republicans made out better, what is the breakdown between who did the gerrymandering vs who won the districts? What is the information for the previous decades? Otherwise it just seems to be "they did better, they must have cheated" type response.
Ref: https://www.americanprogress.org/is.../10/01/475166/impact-partisan-gerrymandering/

[2] Herschel L. Brantley. The Blackwater situations was a huge fuck up that happened between both those mercenaries and the Iraqi police forces. Both the Blackwater and Iraqi testimony confirmed that the Iraqi police engaged the mercenaries. That was a no win situation. I'm not sure that it qualified them to be war criminals.

[3] There wasn't concensus on what the response to COVID was supposed to be in the beginning from anyone. After all these years of it being obvious that the president was an idiot, why would you have cared what he said anyways? What initiative should have been taken? All of the complaints I have read over the months about "Trump should have done this" we wanting him to do things that he didn't have the power to do. Mandate all citizens do something? Those powers are not granted. The irony of people yelling that he was a dictator in one breath and then wanting him to dictate in the other. Can't have it both ways. I do not remember hearing anything about quack medicine. What I do remember is dummy politicians talking about something they heard about like it was a miracle cure and on the other hand the media destroying the idea simply because they hated the person who talked about it. They didn't care about the facts, no one reported on those facts. They just find something they didn't like and declare the whole thing to be false.

[5] Are you a recent immigrant to the US? News flash, the rich benefit from everything, no matter who is running the country.

[6] None of the ones you listed I see as being partisan in any way. Any US Citizen that puts country over party would have no issue with any one, no matter what their political affiliation, to be investigated if a crime had occurred. The Seth Rich things seems to be a loose string, I am not convinced he was involved with the data transfer to Wikileaks. The only reason why people think that is because of Assange saying at the time. The Deep State is not a conspiracy theory, it is a part of the government. The actual "theory" on that was the Deep State was just full of Obama people and were working against Trump. I'm sure there were some, but the Deep State is just like everything else, a big mismash of ideologies and there is always infighting and always will be, especially the larger the government grows. But anyways, yet Democrats do "peddle this bullshit" more than Republicans because Democrats have more news channels in their pocket than Republicans.

Also wanted to point out that you most likely have to be a liberal to even consider believing in a conspiracy theory. That's another reason why these labels do not really work. There are no hardcore liberals (besides Anarchists) or hardcore conservatives (besides maybe religious zealots). Everyone is a blend of both.

NDAA is the same issue as the Patriot Act. Laws passed that allow the targeting of US citizens or civilians as enemy combatants.

You're a solid fucking retard.
 

fake

King of Typists
[1] Information regarding gerrymandering for 2012-2020 seems to favor Republican, but what I cannot find is the success percentage of gerrymandered districts per party. In other words, we know that any party can do it and it doesn't matter if the Republicans made out better, what is the breakdown between who did the gerrymandering vs who won the districts? What is the information for the previous decades? Otherwise it just seems to be "they did better, they must have cheated" type response.
Ref: https://www.americanprogress.org/is.../10/01/475166/impact-partisan-gerrymandering/

[2] Herschel L. Brantley. The Blackwater situations was a huge fuck up that happened between both those mercenaries and the Iraqi police forces. Both the Blackwater and Iraqi testimony confirmed that the Iraqi police engaged the mercenaries. That was a no win situation. I'm not sure that it qualified them to be war criminals.

[3] There wasn't concensus on what the response to COVID was supposed to be in the beginning from anyone. After all these years of it being obvious that the president was an idiot, why would you have cared what he said anyways? What initiative should have been taken? All of the complaints I have read over the months about "Trump should have done this" we wanting him to do things that he didn't have the power to do. Mandate all citizens do something? Those powers are not granted. The irony of people yelling that he was a dictator in one breath and then wanting him to dictate in the other. Can't have it both ways. I do not remember hearing anything about quack medicine. What I do remember is dummy politicians talking about something they heard about like it was a miracle cure and on the other hand the media destroying the idea simply because they hated the person who talked about it. They didn't care about the facts, no one reported on those facts. They just find something they didn't like and declare the whole thing to be false.

[5] Are you a recent immigrant to the US? News flash, the rich benefit from everything, no matter who is running the country.

[6] None of the ones you listed I see as being partisan in any way. Any US Citizen that puts country over party would have no issue with any one, no matter what their political affiliation, to be investigated if a crime had occurred. The Seth Rich things seems to be a loose string, I am not convinced he was involved with the data transfer to Wikileaks. The only reason why people think that is because of Assange saying at the time. The Deep State is not a conspiracy theory, it is a part of the government. The actual "theory" on that was the Deep State was just full of Obama people and were working against Trump. I'm sure there were some, but the Deep State is just like everything else, a big mismash of ideologies and there is always infighting and always will be, especially the larger the government grows. But anyways, yet Democrats do "peddle this bullshit" more than Republicans because Democrats have more news channels in their pocket than Republicans.

Also wanted to point out that you most likely have to be a liberal to even consider believing in a conspiracy theory. That's another reason why these labels do not really work. There are no hardcore liberals (besides Anarchists) or hardcore conservatives (besides maybe religious zealots). Everyone is a blend of both.

NDAA is the same issue as the Patriot Act. Laws passed that allow the targeting of US citizens or civilians as enemy combatants.

Bruh, if you can't even acknowledge that conservatives create absurd bullshit narratives like Seth Rich to damage democrats – or even that Trump and co. did not exercise the right level of leadership, messaging, or caution regarding COVID – there's no point in continuing this. But FYI, I do like partaking in these threads. Putting my thoughts down and double checking myself is always welcome.
 

TonK

Least Valuable Player
Bruh, if you can't even acknowledge that conservatives create absurd bullshit narratives like Seth Rich to damage democrats – or even that Trump and co. did not exercise the right level of leadership, messaging, or caution regarding COVID – there's no point in continuing this. But FYI, I do like partaking in these threads. Putting my thoughts down and double checking myself is always welcome.

Dude is too far right to acknowledge reality.
 
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