NEO TURF MASTERS: Los Turfes Club! Score Thread.

Vectorman0

Igniz's Servent
Joined
Dec 17, 2004
Posts
1,066
Unfortunately, that's a death trap, Vectorman0. Usually, I loose one point on such occasions by putting around the tree. If you have nothing to loose, you can play it risky and try to strike as low as possible using a very strong club. You point left/right from the trunk, adjust the hook/slide curve accordingly and hope for the best to get your ball under the branches. Striking as high as possible with a very low club is sometimes also an option, but risky, and you won't travel far enough to save that strike anyway.


Yeah, I know. I'm of the mindset to take the risk straight through if I think I have a decent chance to make the green in one shot. Otherwise, playing it safe is better if I think I need to take two shots anyway.

I did a few test shots, and it seems impossible to draw any simple meaningful conclusions about how tree branches effect the shot. I am beginning to wonder if tree branches have a larger impact on the height velocity component (perpendicular to the fairway plane) of the ball, than the other components. It's hard to analyze without knowing how the game is designed at a deeper level.
 

oliverclaude

General Morden's Aide
Joined
Feb 3, 2013
Posts
7,667
It's hard to analyze without knowing how the game is designed at a deeper level.

But also pretty unnecessary. Besides Hole #4 on the Edinburgh Old Links, there's really no need to ponder on the topic of trees. Though there's quite a bunch of them, yet, for every hole that involves trees, like for example the infamous tee shot of Hole #16 on the Fujiyama Oriental or, to a lesser degree, Hole #13, #14 and #18 on the Baden National, then Hole #9 and #13 on Blue Lagoon and so on, there is a solid solution, which will give you a steady Birdie possibility.

Granted, if you want to Eagle Hole #11 on the Grand Canyon, you will have to think twice how you want to get past those nasty palm trees on your second shot, but then you still have to manage not to fall into one of those nasty bunkers right before the green. No, as far as I'm concerned, only the wind strength and its effects on your ball's flight path needs serious examination. Pro tip: shut off the wind option, play a whole course with 0m and just see if I'm right ;).
 

Vectorman0

Igniz's Servent
Joined
Dec 17, 2004
Posts
1,066
But also pretty unnecessary.

I agree, but if there was a simple conclusion to make (e.g. 2x from heavy rough), it would have been worth the quick look.

Wind is undoubtedly the most significant factor in a game of Neo Turf Masters, but it's a similarly difficult math problem because the game isn't showing us all the numbers we need to fully understand what's going on. I have simply been trying to get a feel for it as I have been practicing, but I haven't developed a decent system for figuring out proper compensation.
 

Catoblepa

Armored Scrum Object
Joined
Sep 29, 2003
Posts
265
I'm incredibly late to the party, but I'd like to join the Club. ;) I've learned to play Neo Turf Masters the hard way, pouring tokens into a machine, making mistakes and closely watching better players (that was back in the good old days of arcades, now they're all closed). When my friends spent hours playing Virtua Striker - a game that bored me to death after a while - I always knew I could go to Neo Turf Masters. Way more classy. :D

I've tried readin' everything in this thread, but please forgive me if this was discusses before: has anyone talked about chip in shots? I mean, going in hole with a shot from outside of the green with a wedge. I'm askin' because while putting is obviously a safer and easier approach, I rarely, if ever, had any luck going in hole with a putt - it's almost always too short, or it hits the flag. The required precision seems to be pixel-perfect. On the other hand, I feel the game rewards the riskier (harder to calculate) chip in shots. Any expert's opinions on this? Thanks!
 

oliverclaude

General Morden's Aide
Joined
Feb 3, 2013
Posts
7,667
I'm incredibly late to the party, but I'd like to join the Club. ;)

Here's a warm welcome! Glad to hear from another passionate Turfer.

I've tried readin' everything in this thread, but please forgive me if this was discusses before: has anyone talked about chip in shots? I mean, going in hole with a shot from outside of the green with a wedge. I'm askin' because while putting is obviously a safer and easier approach, I rarely, if ever, had any luck going in hole with a putt - it's almost always too short, or it hits the flag. The required precision seems to be pixel-perfect. On the other hand, I feel the game rewards the riskier (harder to calculate) chip in shots. Any expert's opinions on this? Thanks!

That covers my experience as well. Completing a successful put from outer green is nearly as hard as getting an Albatross. The riskier chips in shots you talk about are being rewarded, indeed, still, it's only recommended if you're going for score or lying far behind your opponent. Being able to place your ball as near to the hole as a put can manage is simply the cold and calculating way to win, which is the only way to win in this game. Yes, in my opinion, NTM is as brutal as chess.
 

Catoblepa

Armored Scrum Object
Joined
Sep 29, 2003
Posts
265
Here's a warm welcome! Glad to hear from another passionate Turfer.

That covers my experience as well. Completing a successful put from outer green is nearly as hard as getting an Albatross. The riskier chips in shots you talk about are being rewarded, indeed, still, it's only recommended if you're going for score or lying far behind your opponent. Being able to place your ball as near to the hole as a put can manage is simply the cold and calculating way to win, which is the only way to win in this game. Yes, in my opinion, NTM is as brutal as chess.

Thanks for the welcome, glad to be here!

If you had the same experience, I guess I wasn't imagining things... Yep, getting close to the hole in a safe way is absolutely crucial for competition - and if I'm not mistaken, when you putt from rough the "power penalty" is almost irrelevant compared to a wedge (can't putt from heavy rough, though). Not realistic, but who cares? ;)

On a side note, I still believe a new version of Neo Turf Masters could be a huge success if it had online play AND a course editor, Mario Maker style, so that anyone could create and share his golf course. I never backed a Kickstarter project, but I'd throw my money at that one in a heartbeat.
 
Last edited:

Vectorman0

Igniz's Servent
Joined
Dec 17, 2004
Posts
1,066
I've tried readin' everything in this thread, but please forgive me if this was discusses before: has anyone talked about chip in shots? I mean, going in hole with a shot from outside of the green with a wedge. I'm askin' because while putting is obviously a safer and easier approach, I rarely, if ever, had any luck going in hole with a putt - it's almost always too short, or it hits the flag. The required precision seems to be pixel-perfect. On the other hand, I feel the game rewards the riskier (harder to calculate) chip in shots. Any expert's opinions on this? Thanks!

I think whether or not the balls goes in is a calculation based on the speed, proximity to the hole, and potentially another spin/momentum/acceleration factor that is less visible. I probably have about as much success chipping in short distances (<10m) as I do putting, which is very little. Chipping does seem slightly favored, in my experience. I think the biggest hurdle is that the resolution on the shot gauge (number of power increments) is lower than needed to consistently make the perfect shot. For this reason, I think I have made more chip-ins from the heavy rough than the rough - the shot gauge is effectively higher resolution and also more forgiving. Although my experience may be confirmation bias or variance, and I'm curious as to oliverclaude's experience here.

Sometimes you will take the perfect shot in this game and the ball simply won't go in - just remember the game is mean to everyone equally. Also, keep in mind that course and green is a small approximation of what is happening behind the scenes; the same pixel represents a range of distances. Putting on the green feels a lot less frustrating than chipping because the zoom in cam shows you exactly what happened with the ball. Shooting from outside the green doesn't offer the same luxury and leads to more feel-bad moments. Anyway, the takeaway from all of this is: being 30m away while on the green is always better than being 3m away off the green.

I have more thoughts/speculation as to the inner workings of the game, but I don't want to ramble too much.
 

oliverclaude

General Morden's Aide
Joined
Feb 3, 2013
Posts
7,667
...I think I have made more chip-ins from the heavy rough than the rough - the shot gauge is effectively higher resolution and also more forgiving. Although my experience may be confirmation bias or variance, and I'm curious as to oliverclaude's experience here.

Hmm... higher resolution? Can't confirm that yet, could be right, though. I was of the opinion that chipping from Heavy Rough is easier, because it's more calculable. The distance is approximately doubled, i.e. if your distance is 40, you'll have to hit the power gauge at 80% with your 100 yards wedge, the German guy and a straight shot with zero wind. If you're in the rough, it's approximately 1/3rd you'll have to add, so let's say distance is 60, then you'd hit it at about 80%, plus a bit more. It's not as accurate.

It's confirmed, that aiming at the flag while having your putter selected, grants you a lot more accuracy. Maybe it's a similar mechanic with the Heavy Rough?

Edit:

I have more thoughts/speculation as to the inner workings of the game, but I don't want to ramble too much.

Ramble at will, Electric Grave, the great founder of this Club, wouldn't want to have it any other way ;).
 
Last edited:

Vectorman0

Igniz's Servent
Joined
Dec 17, 2004
Posts
1,066
Hmm... higher resolution?

What I mean by resolution is, if Landolt's 100y wedge shot power gauge is X pixels long, on the fairway each pixel represents 100/X yards, rough is 71/X, heavy rough is 50/X. That means you get a significant increase in how finely you can tune your shot from pixel to pixel going from fairway to rough to heavy rough. The other important implication here is, the heavier the rough, the more forgiving your shot timing is. I hope that makes sense.

You're right in that the calculability of the exact shot is easier to do for heavy rough as well. That may be the prevailing factor that makes chipping from the heavy rough seem easier to me. FYI, I did some testing and I think shooting from rough with the Shotmaker is closer to 42% extra needed, in a vacuum.
 

Catoblepa

Armored Scrum Object
Joined
Sep 29, 2003
Posts
265
For my first entry, I've tried my luck in the USA course with Young Hero, George Spiner. Don't really know why, he's not the best choice, but his fast power gauge is fun. :lolz:

Hole 12 murdered me.

Catoblepa | -10 | USA | George Spiner | MVS | Can't remember credits, sorry! |

Spoiler:
USA-Spiner-1-a.jpg


USA-Spiner-1-b.jpg


USA-Spiner-1-c.jpg
 
Last edited:

oliverclaude

General Morden's Aide
Joined
Feb 3, 2013
Posts
7,667
What I mean by resolution is, if Landolt's 100y wedge shot power gauge is X pixels long, on the fairway each pixel represents 100/X yards, rough is 71/X, heavy rough is 50/X. That means you get a significant increase in how finely you can tune your shot from pixel to pixel going from fairway to rough to heavy rough. The other important implication here is, the heavier the rough, the more forgiving your shot timing is. I hope that makes sense.

In all its craziness... it does indeed make sense. It's a very creative theory!

FYI, I did some testing and I think shooting from rough with the Shotmaker is closer to 42% extra needed, in a vacuum.

Thanks for your accurate testing.
 

Catoblepa

Armored Scrum Object
Joined
Sep 29, 2003
Posts
265
I had a couple of Neo Turf Masters match plays in Fightcade 2 beta. In THEORY, fighting people all over the world is a blast... but I can't fix the input lag, it's horrible. Always have to press the button 3/4 pixel in advance (compared to the original hardware, is like playing drunk).

I've managed to hold my ground against an incredibly strong brazilian guy (who used... the brazilian guy), but his connection failed and a great match was ruined. Until they fix those problems, I'll keep playing on my cab. Anybody else playing on Fightcade?
 

Vectorman0

Igniz's Servent
Joined
Dec 17, 2004
Posts
1,066
I had a couple of Neo Turf Masters match plays in Fightcade 2 beta. In THEORY, fighting people all over the world is a blast... but I can't fix the input lag, it's horrible. Always have to press the button 3/4 pixel in advance (compared to the original hardware, is like playing drunk).

I've managed to hold my ground against an incredibly strong brazilian guy (who used... the brazilian guy), but his connection failed and a great match was ruined. Until they fix those problems, I'll keep playing on my cab. Anybody else playing on Fightcade?


I have played a good amount of Fightcade 1 and can't complain, but never tried Fightcade 2 because I was told it has issues. There is some amount of input lag, but it's no worse than any other emulator and I find it easily manageable when using the Shotmaker.
 

oliverclaude

General Morden's Aide
Joined
Feb 3, 2013
Posts
7,667
Yeah, it would be so good to take on a few holes against you guys. Hopefully it's just a matter of time till a sharp and accurate way to play NTM-online will eventually turn up.
 

it290

Not so MEGA, eh?
Joined
Apr 15, 2004
Posts
99
Came back to this game recently and have been working on my scores for all courses. Landed a -12 on Japan with the Shot Maker this evening which is a personal best for the course.

One technique I haven't seen mentioned in this thread is deliberately angling your shot as high as possible (without going into the red), particularly when approaching the green. It does require some adjustments to your power, particularly when you factor in wind, and is not advisable when high winds are involved, but if you can get the accuracy down it helps a lot with placement on the green since the ball comes down at a steeper angle and with less forward momentum, meaning it won't roll a lot after it lands. I have found that it also increases the probability of chipping the ball in since moving down vertically means less likelihood of bouncing off the flagpole. The first time I tried this technique, I managed to land two eagles and an albatross (and of course, completely botch the rest of the course), but I haven't been so lucky since.

image_from_ios.jpg
 
Last edited:

Vectorman0

Igniz's Servent
Joined
Dec 17, 2004
Posts
1,066
I took a break from the game for a few months but couldn't stay away. I got a new personal best on Australia and made a video. If people like it, I can try to make more. I made a few big mistakes, but still got a good score while leaving room for improvement. That's what makes this game so great.

Vectorman0 | -18 | Australia | German | Fightcade (Level 8) | 1 Credit

Spoiler:

aus-18-lvl8.PNG

aus-18-lvl8-2.PNG

Video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A6dAFS3qHls

I've been playing on level 8 because it's presumably harder. I'm not sure if the average wind speed is greater, but I know it makes grain on the green more common. I also wonder if difficulty impacts pin location, but that would be difficult to determine.
 

Teluin

Pari-Dakar Rally Driver
Joined
May 26, 2018
Posts
61
Is there a particular character that is better than the others? I tend to play as the UK nerd but I know he lacks the power that other characters possess.
 

Vectorman0

Igniz's Servent
Joined
Dec 17, 2004
Posts
1,066
Is there a particular character that is better than the others? I tend to play as the UK nerd but I know he lacks the power that other characters possess.

I think the German is the best all-around character. The Brazilian is the most powerful and enables the best possible score, but his drawbacks of faster shot gauges, bad recovery, bad putting precision, etc., make him more difficult to master.
 

ebinsugewa

Juzoh's Gym Trainer
Joined
Jul 7, 2013
Posts
2,471
pretty much the above. although it's going to change a bit based on your style and the course. in a vaccum landolt is the best char but i definitely have a problem with his short area above 100% making some shots really awkward. so my best scores have been with UK. but i don't necessarily think UK > GER. you dig?
 

oliverclaude

General Morden's Aide
Joined
Feb 3, 2013
Posts
7,667
...landolt is the best char but i definitely have a problem with his short area above 100% making some shots really awkward.

I agree, shots which would require hitting between his 100% and 110% are nigh impossible to trigger. But that's not the way to use him in my opinion. He requires you to learn the distances on his power gauge from zero up to the 100% mark by hard, because, like a fingerboard of a violin, its pitches are not marked. If learned correctly, you'll never have to use his growth-restricted area above 100%.

I'd describe the German character as a "mathematical" one, with the best solutions for such a math-heavy game like NTM. When an awkward distance occurs, he has up to three alternatives to approach it, the only problem is: choice. I always prefer the one where I can use hitting 110%, then correcting it with a forward/backward spin and/or the height gauge, if necessary. His 110% are very precise.
 

Vectorman0

Igniz's Servent
Joined
Dec 17, 2004
Posts
1,066
I agree, shots which would require hitting between his 100% and 110% are nigh impossible to trigger. But that's not the way to use him in my opinion. He requires you to learn the distances on his power gauge from zero up to the 100% mark by hard, because, like a fingerboard of a violin, its pitches are not marked. If learned correctly, you'll never have to use his growth-restricted area above 100%.

The other thing about the area between 100% and MAX with Landolt is that there is only one pixel in between and it doesn't do much. There is rarely a circumstance where I want that spot. 100%+1pixel is marginally more than 100% exactly. Compare that to 100%-1pixel and you have a big drop off to something like 95%. It doesn't make intuitive sense, but that's how the German works. I treat it as a buffer in case my timing is off going for 100%, but as oliver recommends, 110% is always the safest play if you can make it work.
 

oliverclaude

General Morden's Aide
Joined
Feb 3, 2013
Posts
7,667
I've been playing on level 8 because it's presumably harder. I'm not sure if the average wind speed is greater, but I know it makes grain on the green more common. I also wonder if difficulty impacts pin location, but that would be difficult to determine.

Hey, Vec! You made me curious about level 8, so for the last weeks, I've been playing exclusively on hard with the Shot Maker, mainly the on the Japan course. My notes so far:

- The first I noticed was, how difficult it became to get first place alone. It's (probably) only possible if you manage a one credit clear, which I still didn't accomplish. Hard, indeed.

- The rank gets incredibly high, if you're running on one credit, after loosing it, it becomes more MVS like difficulty.

- A striking change is the wind. Sure, high wind blows are always dangerous, but during my sessions on hard, the wind blew more, eh... intelligent. Like in a situation where a 5 m headwind, slight off center would be the worst, that could happen, that was exactly what happened. One whole further the same thing! On hard, the winds don't have to blow strong to give you trouble, just clever.

- The pin locations aren't different, but definitely further locations are unlocked, among them the most difficult ones. Together with the Hi-Q winds I described above, those more varied locations can make for some deadly traps.

To sum it up, it's great to play on such a high level. You learn more, it's like having a master to teach you. Also matches against other players get far more interesting, because everything can change during a single hole up to the end. No lead is certain anymore.
 
Last edited:
Top