NEO TURF MASTERS: Los Turfes Club! Score Thread.

Vectorman0

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Hey, Vec! You made me curious about level 8, so for the last weeks, I've been playing exclusively on hard with the Shot Maker, mainly the on the Japan course. My notes so far:

- The first I noticed was, how difficult it became to get first place alone. It's (probably) only possible if you manage a one credit clear, which I still didn't accomplish. Hard, indeed.

- The rank gets incredibly high, if you're running on one credit, after loosing it, it becomes more MVS like difficulty.

- A striking change is the wind. Sure, high wind blows are always dangerous, but during my sessions on hard, the wind blew more, eh... intelligent. Like in a situation where a 5 m headwind, slight off center would be the worst, that could happen, that was exactly what happened. One whole further the same thing! On hard, the winds don't have to blow strong to give you trouble, just clever.

- The pin locations aren't different, but definitely further locations are unlocked, among them the most difficult ones. Together with the Hi-Q winds I described above, those more varied locations can make for some deadly traps.

To sum it up, it's great to play on such a high level. You learn more, it's like having a master to teach you. Also matches against other players get far more interesting, because everything can change during a single hole up to the end. No lead is certain anymore.


I didn't notice the wind being more awkward, but I do know it's hard to get first without playing perfectly. I'm usually too "in the moment" to notice the exact differences, but level 8 is noticeably more challenging. If I play level 8 regularly and go back to level 4, it feels easier and I get better scores.

I actually wish the wind increased more at level 8 so it was closer to the crazy wind found in 2P Match play. That is the best way to practice, but you can't regularly get that level of difficulty in single player. I really wish I was better with software so I could hack it into a cheat.
 

Vectorman0

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I was playing around with the debug dip switches a month or so ago trying to learn more about the inner workings of the game. I didn't learn much of value, but I figured I would share my notes before I forget about them.

This might not be perfectly accurate, but was my best guess until I got bored of poking around. It differs and is more detailed than any other published description of the Neo Turf Masters debug dips I could find. Question marks indicate uncertainty in my findings.

Code:
Dip 1-1: Pause between holes for level select; 
	 Ball window always shows current terrain under ball; 
	 Can use joystick to move ball, holding C moves at a much slower rate.
Dip 1-2: ??? No noticeable effect [causes flickering on screens at start of hole in fba 2.97.43]
Dip 1-3: ??? No noticeable effect
Dip 1-4: Coordinates? Ball impact data? (Presumably used for fine trajectory & game calculations) 
	X, Y, Z - Ball location coordinates (Top left [0,0,0], right, down, height/out increasing), unsigned 32-bit?
	VX, VY, VZ - Ball velocity vectors (right, down, height/out positive), signed 32-bit
	VV - Overall velocity magnitude? (seems to be off by 0-2%?)
	DS
	DD - related to wind?  Doesn't seem to change while chipping
	VS - Always 0?
	VC - Always 0?
Dip 1-5: Live ball data (presumably used for drawing course)
	Row 1: X Coordinate (right positive)
	Row 2: Y Coordinate (down positive)
	Row 3: Z Coordinate (height/out positive)
	Row 4: Heading (N:0 clockwise to 4095)
	Row 5: Surface type?
		 10: Fairway?
		500: Flat green?
		B00: Heavy Rough?
		110: Rough?
		390: O.B. (on drawn course)?
		  0: O.B. (off drawn course)?
		98C: In cup?	
Dip 1-6: ??? No noticeable effect
Dip 1-7: ??? No noticeable effect
Dip 1-8: ??? No noticeable effect
Dip 2-X: ??? No noticeable effect

debug dip.png

Dip 1-5 is the top five rows which seem to be numbers fit for what is drawn for the display of the game
Dip 1-4 are the much larger numbers which are presumably used for more fine calculations.

Notice how Z is 256 up top, but 40000 below? Converting 40000 from hex to decimal and dividing by 256 yields 1024. This would indicate that the number used for game z position calculations is 1024 times (10 bits) more precise than a pixel seen on the course. Repeating this for X and Y show these are measured 2^14 times more precisely than a pixel.
Spoiler:

Code:
Dip1-5	Dip1-4	Conversion & Division
358	59bb2d	5880621/358=16426.3156425
441	6e4420	7226400/441=16386.3945578

353	587acf	5798607/353=16426.6487252
1480	1722e97	24260247/1480=16392.0587838

641	a07989	10516873/641=16406.9781591
334	53a648	5482056/334=16413.3413174

2^14=16384
This would mean each unique X Y ball pixel-location displayed in game can theoretically represent 16384^2 potential ball locations that are indistinguishable. I could have messed something up, but I think the math checks out.

These numbers also show there is no "true" elevation on greens, but rather different types of green patches that simulate changing elevation.
 

oliverclaude

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Posts
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You're really going for it, Vectorman0! I have to admit, it's not quite my cup of tea, but it's very fascinating to see the game's complexity from behind the looking glass. Good work!

I made another observation during a game yesterday, playing the Japan course on Hard: It was on the last hole (#18), my Tee Shot placed the ball on the top of the hill, just before the water that separates it from the Green. I had a wonderful view on the flag from up there, but then a horrible 15 m straight backwind appeared. My distance was 90 and I calculated that the wind would account for at least 40 - 45 yards (about 3 x 15). Accordingly, I stopped the power gauge a bit before 60 and landed safely... in the water. Damn! What happened? Why was the wind absent all of a sudden?

Here's my first theory: The wind strength sets in just on the last third of your ball's flight.

Diagram for 90 yards:

|0-30|30-60|60-90|
|------------->>>>|

Since my power was just less than 60, the ball fell in the water, before the wind could set in to carry it further.

My second theory: The environment affects wind strength. Trees, hills, plain and wide surfaces... they all have their influence. I was standing on a big hill on my second shot. The wind was 15 m, but blew straight from behind. Consequently, it was hindered by the hill I shot from. Would it have blown from the side, then its power could have been fully unleashed because of the plain water surface. This also means, that if there are a lot of trees on one side of your ball's flight, they'll stop the wind's power from that side, too.


Edit: I'm leaning towards my second theory, but could imagine both working together and maybe one of them (or both) affect one of your dips with 'no noticeable effect'? Anyway, this must be checked by trial & observation during further games, but it's a first step.
 
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Vectorman0

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Posts
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You're really going for it, Vectorman0! I have to admit, it's not quite my cup of tea, but it's very fascinating to see the game's complexity from behind the looking glass. Good work!

I made another observation during a game yesterday, playing the Japan course on Hard: It was on the last hole (#18), my Tee Shot placed the ball on the top of the hill, just before the water that separates it from the Green. I had a wonderful view on the flag from up there, but then a horrible 15 m straight backwind appeared. My distance was 90 and I calculated that the wind would account for at least 40 - 45 yards (about 3 x 15). Accordingly, I stopped the power gauge a bit before 60 and landed safely... in the water. Damn! What happened? Why was the wind absent all of a sudden?

Here's my first theory: The wind strength sets in just on the last third of your ball's flight.

Diagram for 90 yards:

|0-30|30-60|60-90|
|------------->>>>|

Since my power was just less than 60, the ball fell in the water, before the wind could set in to carry it further.

My second theory: The environment affects wind strength. Trees, hills, plain and wide surfaces... they all have their influence. I was standing on a big hill on my second shot. The wind was 15 m, but blew straight from behind. Consequently, it was hindered by the hill I shot from. Would it have blown from the side, then its power could have been fully unleashed because of the plain water surface. This also means, that if there are a lot of trees on one side of your ball's flight, they'll stop the wind's power from that side, too.


Edit: I'm leaning towards my second theory, but could imagine both working together and maybe one of them (or both) affect one of your dips with 'no noticeable effect'? Anyway, this must be checked by trial & observation during further games, but it's a first step.


I have learned to not account for wind (as much, or at all) on short chips. As the distance drops below 100 yards, the effect of the wind on the ball diminishes exponentially.

The wind has a nonlinear effect on the ball, but we are used to using a linear approximation. Unfortunately our approximations fail at the extremes - your situation is one of them.

Here is how I think the wind operates. I think the wind is technically always influencing the ball when it is off the ground, whether we are able to notice it is another matter. As far as I can tell, the two factors that determine how the wind effects the ball are the amount of time the ball is in the air and the strength of the wind. I often use the approximation (that I think you propose early in this thread) that for wind with direction of the ball, hit 2*wind yards less, or for wind opposing ball direction, hit 3*wind yards extra. This is a great starting place, but doesn't hold true at the extremes. For short distances (less than 90m), the ball isn't in the air very long and the wind has less of an effect on the ball. For very short distances (say less than 60m), even strong wind seems to have little effect. The other extreme where the 2x/3x rules break down is with high wind 10+, over significant distances (100+ m).

Unfortunately I can't come up with any good rule of thumb for these situations. I just know to decreasingly account for wind as distance drops from 100 to zero, and increasingly account for it in situations with very high wind. Let me know if my explanation makes sense.

Edit: Short distance overrules high wind. When chipping only 15 yards away from the pin, there is little need to account for the wind, even when it's 15m.
 
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oliverclaude

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Let me know if my explanation makes sense.

Your wind deliberations make perfect sense. I'll still try to examine the possibility of obstacles like hills or trees to lower the wind's strength. Height is an important dimension in NTM, why shouldn't it influence the wind, right? Anyway, the emphasis on wind is giving our game that extra something, which I miss while playing any other Golf games out there.
 

Vectorman0

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I have always wondered if ball height itself is related to wind effect, because hitting higher seems to make the ball more effected by the wind. Since height is directly related to air time I assume it was easier to program the game such that the wind is always effecting the ball the same way as long as it's in the air. It's definitely possible the developers made things more complex than the framework I considered in my last post.
 

oliverclaude

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Well, there's something high-related I already grant for certain. Try Hole #5 with the Shot Maker on the Japan course, it's a Par 5 hole with high Eagle potential. Land your Tee Shot on the Fairway. Your rest distance should be between 230 - 220 yards.

Now try to get with your second shot on the Green. From my experience, I can tell you that you'll need to add at least 10 yards more to your power gauge, or else you won't make it up this hill, where the Green is located. Its height is the reason. Your ball drops significantly at the end of its flight, thus it needs the extra power.

The opposite will happen on Hole #3 in Japan, where you stand higher on your Tee Shot position than the Green is located. I always extract about 5 yards from my power gauge or else I'm going to be 5 yards too far. It seems that striking from a higher/lower position than your landing zone, shortens/lengthens your drive respectively in NTM, just like it would in reality.
 

boss0033

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Posts
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Never realized this was a thread! Here it goes...I know, I'm insane at this game! LOL!

Boss/-20/Seaside/German/I'm guessing 1 credit but can't remember.

IMG_1931.jpg
 

Vectorman0

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Nice scores! I haven't played much recently and need to get back into it.

Boss/-20/Seaside/German/I'm guessing 1 credit but can't remember.

That score would be even more impressive if you had needed a second credit!
 
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oliverclaude

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I haven't played much recently and need to get back into it.

Please do, I played a lot lately and only on Hard difficulty. I discovered that there is an equal Eagle potential, if not a higher one, on the German Course as there is on the Australian.

The wind is steadily insane on this difficulty, so I'm keen to switch back to MVS and see if I have improved. See you back on the turf Vectorman0 ;).
 

Vectorman0

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I had one of my best starts in Germany, but didn't make the most of it when I got two pars on the back nine. I'm still glad to tie my best score and get screenshots this time.


Vectorman0 | -19 | Germany | German Shotmaker | Fightcade (Level 8) | 1 Credit

ger-19-lvl8.png ger-19-lvl8b.png
 

bustedstr8

Trollbox Trade Federation,
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Damn nice scores there guys. I miss the action.....might have to see if I still got any skills left.
 

Vectorman0

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Damn nice scores there guys. I miss the action.....might have to see if I still got any skills left.


You should definitely get back into it! The Switch and PS4 versions are decent, if you need another way to play.
 

Pretty Amy

Host for Orochi
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Nice guide! I definitely need to start aiming in-game. I always aim using the minimap. I'd love to find some time to go back and get my -10 Germany and -12 Japan up to my other -14's or better.
 

Pretty Amy

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Got my -10 down to a -12 on the Joe Baden National Golf Course. Thanks for the guide, Vectorman0! It definitely helped my improve my consistency. I got -10 three times before getting the -12.

Pretty Amy | -12 | Germany | German | Xbox One (MVS) | 2 Credits

Spoiler:
vfiHlv2.jpg

LcjxEj7.jpg
 

JoeAwesome

I survived Secret Santa, It wasn't Easy.,
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Feb 19, 2016
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BA-turfmast-07-15-014416.png
JoeAwesome | -14 | Arisona | German | Fightcade (Level 8)

BA-turfmast-08-18-010630.png
JoeAwesome | -15 | Australia | German | Fightcade (Level 8)

BG-turfmast-09-06-194702.png
JoeAwesome | -15 | Germany | German | Fightcade (Level 8)

BJ-turfmast-08-05-013148.png
JoeAwesome | -14 | Japan | German | Fightcade (Level 8)

BS-neocdz-09-19-015544.png
JoeAwesome | -14 | Scotland | German | FBA (Normal- default)

These should be my bests. Tbh, I've enjoyed playing the game over the last few months, but feel burnt out on it. Probably my highs for awhile.
 
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