Religion ugh...not again

complexz

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I wasn't raised as anything, parents never really put the idea of god or a lack of god in my head at anytime during my childhood. I guess I was lucky I was able to totally come to my own conclusion naturally. So I don't believe mainly because I can't... it just doesn't seem likely to me like there is anything beyond the natural world, I'm okay with not being a immortal ghost.
 

Jibbajaba

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That is a shitty assumption to make, and it will serve you poorly.


I agree. A lot of extremely smart people believe in God. When you're raised that way, it's hard not to have that belief through your whole life. And a lot of people want and need to believe for a variety of reasons. To say that their faith makes them "stupid" is a very ignorant statement and says a lot more about you than it does about them.

Chris
 

Poonman

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If faith was so strong in religious people and GOD is such a serious force of nature (never to be fucked with)

...why do so many make the switch from Christian Sky Hippy to muslim moonfag?

You think either "god" would tolerate that kind of shit when they hand out such severe imaginary punishments for much less?
 
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SouthtownKid

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It will degenerate into that no matter what on here, just get STK to post for that. My belief is basically known but I'm not going to go into it because every time things just turn into people bashing others on here.

You're kind of a defensive moron, because other than the Catholic Church, I have no major beefs with most religions, although I share the thread-starter's disdain for organized religion. You feel like you get bashed because you say stupid things and somehow expect not to get goofed on for it. And that's not what this place is about.

As to the thread-starter's question, I came to my beliefs mostly through observation of the world around us, although obviously, that involves a great amount of interpretation. And it became a lot easier to explore spirituality once I learned to ignore the cynical, hypocritical, transparent quest for wealth and power over people that organized religion represents (Hi, Vatican!). Take all groups of people out of the equation and come at things yourself.
 

NeoSneth

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i think organized religion is on the decline in the US. at least I hope it is.

there's the bible belt, but that is shrinking. We also have the mormons, but i think educated people realize it's a joke. at least, i hope all this is true.
 

Pope Sazae

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I want to look into Baha'i, seems like a really interesting way of looking at things even when it goes on to say that key aspects of Christianity, Judaism, and Islam are wrong.
 

StevenK

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The problem with religion is it throws up so many more questions than it answers. The number of things we can't explain is still almost infinite, but assigning them to a god just adds yet another huge layer of unexplainable to the problem. It promises easy answers but it actually turns into the biggest head fuck of all.
 

AlecRob

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There is more to Christianity than faith though. There is an ample amount of historical evidence to back it up.
 

northernsoul

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That is a shitty assumption to make, and it will serve you poorly.

By serving me poorly, do you mean having a great circle of friends who believe the same things as me, never being judged for my lifestyle choices, never being threatened with eternal damnation, never having to associate with someone who would deny another human the right to love whomever they choose, not being told anymore that because I'm an atheist I'm incapable of being a moral person, never having to hang-out with a person who believes man has domain over this earth and it's animals, thus we can fuck-it-up because, "fuck-it, I'm going to heaven"?

If these are some of the ways in which I've been poorly served, then yes, you are correct. Considering most people I meet who are religious assume I'm a godless, immoral, heathen, who can't be trusted, then I'm happy to assume they are stupid.
 

Pope Sazae

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why? It's fucking stupid.

I just think it looks interesting. I'm not looking for answers to everything or what is going to happen to me after I die. Those beliefs and answers I don't even find in Christianity, I prefer to find aspects of things I find interesting and look at them from there. I don't hold super strong beliefs in anything, only ideas and maybe some sort of answers but I don't want to be force fed. I do see myself as Catholic, my family is Irish and my grandparents actually immigrated over here and were very deeply devout, and I was brought up that way. My kids I do not force anything on but one is only 3 and I will give him the freedom to look at whatever he wants as he gets older.

Now I will say something against one of them and that is Scientology. I fully admit that the Catholic church can be money grabbing and use that to hold a lot of power but Scientology takes it to just a ridiculous extreme. I would like to just walk or drive by one of their centers or whatever they call them out in California next time I go to the west coast. From the pictures I have seen the money they put into those places puts every other place to shame.
 

abasuto

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I was raised atheist and can't even begin to believe in god or any afterlife.

The entire concept of either to me is simply absurd beyond logic.

If the bible was correct though and somehow absolute proof of that was presented to me, I'd side with Lucifer. I don't say that wanting to side with the bad guy either because to me Lucifer was a positive figure.

Entire bible is full of god wrecking people. Sending them to hell, flooding the planet, plagues, telling a dude to murder his own brother. Name one single bad thing Lucifer ever did to "man" ? I can't think of single bad thing Lucifer did.

Also, Lucifer told god to get fucked and earned his own kingdom for it. I think that's the most important story of the bible. Lucifer stood for true freedom and if you follow true freedom then your life becomes your kingdom to rule.
 

evil wasabi

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I was raised atheist and can't even begin to believe in god or any afterlife.

The entire concept of either to me is simply absurd beyond logic.

If the bible was correct though and somehow absolute proof of that was presented to me, I'd side with Lucifer. I don't say that wanting to side with the bad guy either because to me Lucifer was a positive figure.

Entire bible is full of god wrecking people. Sending them to hell, flooding the planet, plagues, telling a dude to murder his own brother. Name one single bad thing Lucifer ever did to "man" ? I can't think of single bad thing Lucifer did.

Also, Lucifer told god to get fucked and earned his own kingdom for it. I think that's the most important story of the bible. Lucifer stood for true freedom and if you follow true freedom then your life becomes your kingdom to rule.

wow. that's deep man.
 

EVIL NICK

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I was raised atheist and can't even begin to believe in god or any afterlife.

The entire concept of either to me is simply absurd beyond logic.

If the bible was correct though and somehow absolute proof of that was presented to me, I'd side with Lucifer. I don't say that wanting to side with the bad guy either because to me Lucifer was a positive figure.

Entire bible is full of god wrecking people. Sending them to hell, flooding the planet, plagues, telling a dude to murder his own brother. Name one single bad thing Lucifer ever did to "man" ? I can't think of single bad thing Lucifer did.

Also, Lucifer told god to get fucked and earned his own kingdom for it. I think that's the most important story of the bible. Lucifer stood for true freedom and if you follow true freedom then your life becomes your kingdom to rule.

One of the best posts I've read in a long time.
 

Pope Sazae

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The Old Testament has some of the most violent and hardcore stuff you could read, you messed with God and he fucked you up. Kept people in fear which can be a good thing at times.
 

Lee Gray

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I dont even know if my parents believe in god as although not from a religious family, we never discuss it.
I have been non religious for 43 years and that wont change any time soon, it really does seem far fetched to believe a god with power exists, but even if god was proved to exist, I still wouldnt be religious because its not about believing that makes a person religious but the good things that they can get from it and I personally cant see a single reason why I would want to worship a god that allows people to be murdered and children to go hungry.
 

Heinz

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I usually don't care much for others beliefs, what gets you through the night is you're own choice. That said I think the whole idea of 'divine intervention' is absolute rubbish. The values that go along with religion are well structured for the most part. It tends to mould nice people, they aren't bad rules to live by. But the moment you push it all on me, as if I'am the one who needs to change heh I'll tell you where to go pretty damn quick.

So I suppose the moral is to keep your personal beliefs to yourself, nobody likes a preacher.
 

Wachenroder

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I have been dealing with this shit A LOT lately so prepare for a long winded rant.

I was raised Christian (mostly when I was staying with my Grandmother who is a Witness oddly enough). I never really identified with religion and I let it go completely when I was very young.

My parents were never super big on religion growing up. We'd go to church occasionally and it'd come up in conversation from time to time but it was never that big a thing in our house.

Today, I believe mom is a closet atheist but she won't admit it. My dad however, has become much more religious in the last couple of years. Smart as fuck but suddenly things like "evolution is wrong and everything in the bible is true" has their crept their way into our conversations. Now I can no longer have really damn good conversations with my dad. Ugh why the fuck...

Then my sister, who might be my closest friend in the world wont admit it, but she's an atheist as well. She's the type with enough sense to cherry pick the bible but not enough to discard the whole damn deplorable thing. When pressed, she has admitted to me on more then one occasion that she NEEDS to believe in god because the world is scary and god gives her hope. Sigh alright I have to accept that I guess....

Her fiance is the kind of guy that when Jason Collins came out of the closet, he felt the need to inject that gays are an abomination of god, they should keep their sexuality to themselves and that they spit on the sanctity of marriage. Or that Ray Lewis couldn't have killed those people because god wouldn't allow a guilty man such glory. The kind of guy who thinks Christianity has a monopoly on morality. We get along ok most of the time though.

Religion is so weird...
 
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GohanX

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Hoo boy, I suppose I have to step out of character and be real for a minute.

I am a Christian, and I despise most organized religion. I haven't been to church regularly since I was a teenager. I'm not going to bash all churches, but I see too much "religion" and not enough faith. I think I have a different perspective than most, as I was not taught my faith in the church, I was taught by reading the bible myself (particularly the gospels,) reflecting on it, and praying for understanding. I'm no theologian, but it seems to me that a lot of what religion teaches is pretty far from what the bible actually says if you read it. People take individual lines and misinterpret it or otherwise twist it to fit their own agenda and terrible things happen. They teach it to others as the Word of God and people who don't look for themselves trust it to be true.

My advice to you, read a little of the gospels (Matthew, Mark, Luke, John) in a modern English translation. They are pretty short, and pay attention to what Jesus actually says. He always spoke in simple terms, so complex theology can GTFO. If you still believe in God, pray for guidance and you will figure out where to go from there.

Personally, I have never doubted the God exists. I can't explain why in any way that would satisfy any form of proof, I just know it. I don't try to push my beliefs on others, I rarely even speak about it and the only reason I am here is because you asked.
 

AlecRob

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I could give a few reasons why the New Testament, for example, could be considered reliable.

The truthfulness of the Bible, and by extension, all of Christianity, can be reduced to the truthfulness of Jesus's resurrection. If Jesus really rose from the dead, then he was who he says he was. If he was who he says he was (the son of God), then the new testament is true. And since Jesus claimed the Old Testament was true, then if Jesus was God's son, it could also be assumed that the Old Testament is true as well.

The New Testament authors include details about the resurrection that they would have not made up, which includes embarrassing or shameful details about the gospel writers themselves. For example, Joseph of Arimathea, who was a member of the Sanhedrin (the Jewish group that wanted Jesus to be crucified in the first place) was the one to bury Jesus. This is peculiar, because the fact that the apostles allowed a member of the Sanhedrin bury Jesus shows that they were most likely humiliated due to the recent events, perhaps even their faith wavering (hence "doubting Thomas"). Another major detail about the resurrection that could be considered embarrassing was the fact that the first witnesses of the risen Jesus were women, one of which was formally demon-possessed (Luke 8:1-3). In those days, a woman's testimony was not considered credible in court of law. Therefore, if the New Testament writers wanted to purposely make things more believable, they would have said that a man was the first person to witness the risen Jesus, or better yet, one of the Apostles.

The New Testament includes over thirty historically confirmed individuals in their writings. Because these historical figured were alive during the actual events of the gospel, and during the writing of the gospel, it would have been absurd and possibly dangerous to include them in a made-up story because any of them could have debunked their claims easily.

Each of the Gospel writers also each include details in the New Testament books that vary, but not contradict each other. If the New Testament was a hoax, then they most likely would have met beforehand and made a conscious decision to be consistent in their writings as not to accidentally contradict each other. These divergent details actually help the New Testament's case, because it shows that each author noticed different things and wrote about what stood out to them personally. Just as different newspapers and television stations will report the same event different, the writers of the New Testament did as well.

Besides including actual historical figures in their writings, the New Testament authors also tell their readers to check out other verifiable facts pertaining to the events of the gospel. Paul claimed to the Corinthian people that the signs and wonders were done among them (2 Corinthians 12:12). Paul would not have said this if he were making it up, because why lie to somebody about something they themselves did or witnessed?

Another interesting detail about the Bible is that the writers describe miracles and other historical events with a relatively nonchalant attitude. If the gospel's authors were making everything up, then their descriptions of the events would most likely have been more fantastic or outlandish, see The Gospel of Peter (an "apocryphal forgery"). It describes a very dramatized and embellished version of Jesus's resurrection. It is likely that if the New Testament were also a lie, the the descriptions given by the apostles would probably more closely resembled that of the one in The Gospel of Peter.

The New Testament authors abandoned their Jewish beliefs in favor of Jesus's teachings. The decision they made to reject many of the 1,500-year-old Jewish traditional rules would have seemed strikingly ludicrous in those days. These rules were a part of their heritage, and culture. It is unlikely that they would have dropped it all to follow some kind of lie, let alone defend that under the threat of death.

There is evidence for the Bible that can be found outside of the Bible itself; particularly, eye-witness testimony from Christian, non-Christian, and anti-Christian sources. What is most intriguing is the admission by anti-Christian sources that Jesus did in fact perform supernatural acts and miracles, or as they called it, "sorcery". Interestingly, there are more extra-biblical sources that mention Jesus than there are documents that mention Tiberius Caesar. If you only look at these extra-biblical sources, you can essentially reconstruct the gospel's entire storyline.

The New Testament displays a remarkable amount of reliability compared to other historical documents. Plato's writings, which are often-quoted by historians and other scholars, have a 1,200-year gap between the actual time of writing and the earliest surviving copies. The New Testament, on the other hand, has only a twenty-five year gap between the actual event and the earliest known manuscripts.

The New Testament has twenty-seven different sources. More than any other ancient text. There are about 5,700 New Testament manuscripts in the original Greek language, and around 9,000 in other various languages in such as Latin. Early church leaders often quoted the New Testament; fascinatingly, nearly the entire New Testament, save for eleven verses, can be reconstructed from these leader's writings and transcriptions. There is also striking earliness of the New Testament documents. At least some of the books were penned just a few years after the death of Jesus, in the 40's and 50's AD. Some skeptics ask why there are not earlier documents. This is because some of the New Testament writers had hopes that Jesus would come back in their lifetime, and felt no need to write the story down.

To reconstruct the New Testament from its many sources, scholars compare the man manuscripts with each other, and because of the scribes' meticulous copying habits, the original text can be recovered beyond a reasonable doubt. Critics will often claim that the New Testament has about 200,000 errors. It must, however, be noted that strictly speaking, all of these errors are nothing more than grammatical variants and have little to no significance in the Christian faith as a whole.
 
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SonGohan

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AlecRob is having serious problems just committing to a comment in this thread.
 

evil wasabi

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I have been dealing with this shit A LOT lately so prepare for a long winded rant.

I was raised Christian (mostly when I was staying with my Grandmother who is a Witness oddly enough). I never really identified with religion and I let it go completely when I was very young.

My parents were never super big on religion growing up. We'd go to church occasionally and it'd come up in conversation from time to time but it was never that big a thing in our house.

Today, I believe mom is a closet atheist but she won't admit it. My dad however, has become much more religious in the last couple of years. Smart as fuck but suddenly things like "evolution is wrong and everything in the bible is true" has their crept their way into our conversations. Now I can no longer have really damn good conversations with my dad. Ugh why the fuck...

Then my sister, who might be my closest friend in the world wont admit it, but she's an atheist as well. She's the type with enough sense to cherry pick the bible but not enough to discard the whole damn deplorable thing. When pressed, she has admitted to me on more then one occasion that she NEEDS to believe in god because the world is scary and god gives her hope. Sigh alright I have to accept that I guess....

Her fiance is the kind of guy that when Jason Collins came out of the closet, he felt the need to inject that gays are an abomination of god, they should keep their sexuality to themselves and that they spit on the sanctity of marriage. Or that Ray Lewis couldn't have killed those people because god wouldn't allow a guilty man such glory. The kind of guy who thinks Christianity has a monopoly on morality. We get along ok most of the time though.

Religion is so weird...

You kind of have to love him because your sister does. At least you get along with him. I would ask my sister not to marry that kind of person. I don't think she would anyways. Inlaws you can love are a luxury.
 
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