Tonight’s debate

SouthtownKid

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The Soviet Union would have collapsed without Reagan.
It wouldn't have happened yet. I'm sorry, that's such a dumb take. Reagan pushed it to the point of collapse, but it still would not have happened without the absolute once in a lifetime miracle happenstance of Gorbachev being Soviet leader at the exact right moment in history. Anyone else would have sent in the tanks to obliterate the dissadents. Gorbachev said, let it fall.

The actual threat of nuclear war ended in the Kennedy Administration.
I hope stage is here to witness me having to break out the :rolleyes: again for the first time in a while.
 

Viewpoint

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I watched the whole debate, shrugged my shoulders and went to bed.
 

HellioN

, What The Fuck Is This Shit?
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The man was an actor that was elected President, and he played the part to the utmost. He did what was responsible at the time, i.e. he was Thatcher's bitch.

That's a whole lot less destructive than the modern-day conservatives.
There are no "modern-day" conservatives.
Just the slower moving wing of the progressive uniparty.
 

Taiso

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It's over!
 

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Lagduf

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It wouldn't have happened yet. I'm sorry, that's such a dumb take. Reagan pushed it to the point of collapse, but it still would not have happened without the absolute once in a lifetime miracle happenstance of Gorbachev being Soviet leader at the exact right moment in history. Anyone else would have sent in the tanks to obliterate the dissadents. Gorbachev said, let it fall.


I hope stage is here to witness me having to break out the :rolleyes: again for the first time in a while.

The inevitable collapse of the Soviet Union is a dumb take…?

Uh, okay.

The American state was determined to see it fail and would have worked towards that goal regardless of who was in office. A half century of anti-Soviet propaganda wasn’t going to turn the American people in to communist sympathizers over night or thanks to someone like Carter.

No, Fuck Reagan.
 

Lagduf

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But i mean if you’re merely looking for an acknowledgement that people are not binary good or bad and can do good, even great things, despite also doing terrible things? Then yeah, obviously. Ultimately arguing about why may have been without him is pointless (and yes, I realize I’ve been doing that.) He caused great harm to the American people and represents everything wrong with the American political elite, and I say fuck him, for that. He was conservative until it was inconvenient, he believed in small government until it was inconvenient (just kidding - he never believed in small government) and his courting of the moral majority has led us (in part) down a brain dead path we’re on now. Oh well I hope the Russians enjoyed their 20 years of freedom.

But again what do you expect from a Californian?
 
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SouthtownKid

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But i mean if you’re merely looking for an acknowledgement that people are not binary good or bad and can do good, even great things, despite also doing terrible things? Then yeah, obviously.
Okay then.
 

TheJiggler

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Okay then.
giphy.gif
 

prof

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Regarding the dissolution of the Soviet Union, their financial situation took a massive hit during the Vietnam War, as they were funding and producing weaponry for the NVA army. Estimates range on the yearly amounts, but most of the Russian sources put the final total in the $8 billion range in 1970s USD. While that doesn't seem to get acknowledged all that much in contemporary world history dissertations, its ramifications certainly played a major factor in their precipitous economic decline throughout the 80s.
 

Takumaji

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Regarding the dissolution of the Soviet Union, their financial situation took a massive hit during the Vietnam War, as they were funding and producing weaponry for the NVA army. Estimates range on the yearly amounts, but most of the Russian sources put the final total in the $8 billion range in 1970s USD. While that doesn't seem to get acknowledged all that much in contemporary world history dissertations, its ramifications certainly played a major factor in their precipitous economic decline throughout the 80s.
The downfall was mostly based on financial problems (mainly caused by the arms race), then there was Chernobyl 1986 which not only cost thousands of lives but also billions and billions of Rubels to clear, and finally, the GDR (the divided Eastern part of Germany behind the Iron Curtain) regime was chased away by its citizens in 1989 and that was the end of it, the USSR went down two years later.

We in West Germany were holding our breath when we saw the GDR people storming the STASI hq in Berlin, it wasn't clear at all that the Russians wouldn't send troops, this was when Gorbatchev had to decide between the inevitable and world war 3. Luckily, he chose the former, and the rest as they say is history.

We went to Berlin to organise illegal techno parties in the fallen rubble of the former USSR. The people had won... ...or so we thought, but that's another story.

Anyway, Reagan started as a diehard cold warrior through and through. Over here, he was declared enemy #1 by the lefties, the big warmonger with his SDI who would bring us total thermo-nuclear annihilation. When Gorbatchev came into office, Reagan seemingly went through a phase of change and started to meet the Russians and Gorbatchev on a regular basis, beginning in the mid-80s. This led to a huge improvement of US-USSR relationship and several important nuclear disarmament contracts. Reagan became a dependable partner whose political instinct of his later presidency helped to pave the way for a more or less peaceful end of the Soviet era, and as someone who was there when it all happened, I'm still thankful for the foresight of people like him and Gorbatchev who were able to read the signs of the times and did what had to be done to bring it to a, uhm, good end.
 

Jon

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The downfall was mostly based on financial problems (mainly caused by the arms race), then there was Chernobyl 1986 which not only cost thousands of lives but also billions and billions of Rubels to clear, and finally, the GDR (the divided Eastern part of Germany behind the Iron Curtain) regime was chased away by its citizens in 1989 and that was the end of it, the USSR went down two years later.

We in West Germany were holding our breath when we saw the GDR people storming the STASI hq in Berlin, it wasn't clear at all that the Russians wouldn't send troops, this was when Gorbatchev had to decide between the inevitable and world war 3. Luckily, he chose the former, and the rest as they say is history.

We went to Berlin to organise illegal techno parties in the fallen rubble of the former USSR. The people had won... ...or so we thought, but that's another story.

Anyway, Reagan started as a diehard cold warrior through and through. Over here, he was declared enemy #1 by the lefties, the big warmonger with his SDI who would bring us total thermo-nuclear annihilation. When Gorbatchev came into office, Reagan seemingly went through a phase of change and started to meet the Russians and Gorbatchev on a regular basis, beginning in the mid-80s. This led to a huge improvement of US-USSR relationship and several important nuclear disarmament contracts. Reagan became a dependable partner whose political instinct of his later presidency helped to pave the way for a more or less peaceful end of the Soviet era, and as someone who was there when it all happened, I'm still thankful for the foresight of people like him and Gorbatchev who were able to read the signs of the times and did what had to be done to bring it to a, uhm, good end.
 

city41

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Or just paste a raw youtube url, the forum will do the work for you
 

Fygee

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The downfall was mostly based on financial problems (mainly caused by the arms race), then there was Chernobyl 1986 which not only cost thousands of lives but also billions and billions of Rubels to clear, and finally, the GDR (the divided Eastern part of Germany behind the Iron Curtain) regime was chased away by its citizens in 1989 and that was the end of it, the USSR went down two years later.

We in West Germany were holding our breath when we saw the GDR people storming the STASI hq in Berlin, it wasn't clear at all that the Russians wouldn't send troops, this was when Gorbatchev had to decide between the inevitable and world war 3. Luckily, he chose the former, and the rest as they say is history.

We went to Berlin to organise illegal techno parties in the fallen rubble of the former USSR. The people had won... ...or so we thought, but that's another story.

Anyway, Reagan started as a diehard cold warrior through and through. Over here, he was declared enemy #1 by the lefties, the big warmonger with his SDI who would bring us total thermo-nuclear annihilation. When Gorbatchev came into office, Reagan seemingly went through a phase of change and started to meet the Russians and Gorbatchev on a regular basis, beginning in the mid-80s. This led to a huge improvement of US-USSR relationship and several important nuclear disarmament contracts. Reagan became a dependable partner whose political instinct of his later presidency helped to pave the way for a more or less peaceful end of the Soviet era, and as someone who was there when it all happened, I'm still thankful for the foresight of people like him and Gorbatchev who were able to read the signs of the times and did what had to be done to bring it to a, uhm, good end.
And yet, ironically, Reagan's act of repealing the Fairness Doctrine, thus giving rise to networks like Fox News, MSNBC, and other propaganda machines in the US will be a major component in undoing both that work with Russia, and the US itself.
 

Takumaji

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And yet, ironically, Reagan's act of repealing the Fairness Doctrine, thus giving rise to networks like Fox News, MSNBC, and other propaganda machines in the US will be a major component in undoing both that work with Russia, and the US itself.
Yeah, and there is the war on drugs and tons more local decisions which I can't really comment on, although I have a rather strong opinion about the war on drugs itself. As these are important factors in judging his two terms, I'll leave the final verdict on whether or not Reagan was a good president to you guys.
 
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