The King Of Fighters XV (2020)

Azathoth

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They have all 6 DLC characters on sale as a single purchase for under 20 bucks right now on xbox (both Garou and South Town), so I bit the bullet.

I picked this up last night after seeing the game + first 6 DLC characters was on sale for $50 on the Xbox store.

Never owned a PS4 so I missed out on 14 and went in with low expectations. It seems to play well but the audio/visuals are just as plastic and bland as I figured they would be. Shame that the new characters are a bunch of goofy shit that has no appeal to me and all the cool ones are drip fed as DLC.
 

Fygee

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The visuals aren't anywhere near as plastic as 14. The models don't look like Barbie or PS1 CGI videos, the skin textures (and really, all of textures) are much better, and the character animations were improved quite a bit, especially for pre-fight sequences. The music in the game is also really good, and IMO the best it's been overall since KOF 99.

Not to say they're 100% perfect, but the improvements over 14 are huge.
 

Azathoth

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Not to say they're 100% perfect, but the improvements over 14 are huge.

Is there any reason to go back to 14? Any really great characters that didn't return or any exclusive special modes?
 

Fygee

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Not really. Plays well, some of the new characters are fun (I loved Mian personally). Story bits?

But that's my point. 15 is a really big leap over 14, so it makes 14 pretty useless. Not KOF 12 levels of useless, but still.
 

100proof

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Yeah, not really. Some people liked burqa lady and a couple of the other new characters (FUCK Paula Paula) but 15 really does make 14 kind of irrelevant.
 

kernow

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I'm surprised anybody cares about kof anymore tbh. Great, let's wait five years for something that looks like a PS4 game at best.

Surprised anyone is playing this after the initial honeymoon tbh
 

Neo Alec

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I'm surprised anybody cares about kof anymore tbh. Great, let's wait five years for something that looks like a PS4 game at best.

Surprised anyone is playing this after the initial honeymoon tbh
Everything takes 5 years between installments now. Luckily for us old people it feels like the same amount of time as back in the day.
 

Fygee

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That's like saying a Ford Focus isn't as bad as a Ford Pinto. It really isn't as bad. Still shit, though.
Your opinion. I disagree. I think they look great for the style they went for.
 

Will Graham

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I'm surprised anybody cares about kof anymore tbh. Great, let's wait five years for something that looks like a PS4 game at best.

Surprised anyone is playing this after the initial honeymoon tbh
Because it plays fine. Not the best kof but not the worst either.
 

Fygee

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I'm surprised anybody cares about kof anymore tbh. Great, let's wait five years for something that looks like a PS4 game at best.

Surprised anyone is playing this after the initial honeymoon tbh
Great gameplay, good presentation, solid netcode, and continuously released DLC that's worthwhile. Add crossplay to that future list too.

Top-tier cutting-edge graphics have never been a key factor in fighting games. Like...ever. You'll have some exceptions like Netherrealm games, but aside from that, it's all about the style and execution.
 

100proof

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Great gameplay, good presentation, solid netcode, and continuously released DLC that's worthwhile. Add crossplay to that future list too.

Top-tier cutting-edge graphics have never been a key factor in fighting games. Like...ever. You'll have some exceptions like Netherrealm games, but aside from that, it's all about the style and execution.

And the modern Netherrealm games play like shit soooo yeah. People still play KoF for the same reason people still play KoF 98: it's a solid fighting game with good mechanics. Might be difficult to understand for people who don't play fighting games anymore (or barely play video games at all) but there are a lot of folks who don't particularly care about graphics engines.
 

SouthtownKid

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Top-tier cutting-edge graphics have never been a key factor in fighting games. Like...ever.
False. Explain people here's overblown regard for Last Blade or MotW, or how many times someone brings up the motherfucking "Rain Stage" for fuck's sake. I don't even have to be more specific. Just saying the 2 words, "rain stage", you know exactly what game I'm talking about.

Plus, at the time Street Fighter 2 hit, when Fatal Fury Special hit, when Darkstalkers hit, when Super Street Fighter hit, those WERE top-tier cutting-edge graphics. They were the absolute top graphically and aesthetically of any game being produced at that time. How can you forget that?

Lots of hardcore fighting game fans of the mid to late '90s wouldn't stop talking about how the Virtua Fighter games were so vastly superior to Tekken. But Tekken dominated the living shit out of VF like Lebron dunking on a junior high kid in a wheelchair. Why? You know why. If you're honest with yourself.
 

Fygee

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False. Explain people here's overblown regard for Last Blade or MotW, or how many times someone brings up the motherfucking "Rain Stage" for fuck's sake. I don't even have to be more specific. Just saying the 2 words, "rain stage", you know exactly what game I'm talking about.

Plus, at the time Street Fighter 2 hit, when Fatal Fury Special hit, when Darkstalkers hit, when Super Street Fighter hit, those WERE top-tier cutting-edge graphics. They were the absolute top graphically and aesthetically of any game being produced at that time. How can you forget that?

Lots of hardcore fighting game fans of the mid to late '90s wouldn't stop talking about how the Virtua Fighter games were so vastly superior to Tekken. But Tekken dominated the living shit out of VF like Lebron dunking on a junior high kid in a wheelchair. Why? You know why. If you're honest with yourself.
Technical achievements that are really pretty looking on, at the time, seven to nine year old hardware, are not cutting edge. I'm talking about graphics that would be the modern equivalent of something running UE5 with all its features on current gen hardware today. So Neo-Geo in 1990/1991.

I also highly doubt people at the time bought KOF 99 or MOTW just for "the rain stage" or that smooth animation. Tournaments featuring those games didn't/don't exist just for those either.

Point being, graphics only get you so far in a fighting game. The gameplay, the roster, and nowadays, the quality of online play are the biggest factors. KOF 15 has been great for all three. The graphics are just the cherry on the sundae. It doesn't have to be the tastiest cherry you've ever had, it just has to look and taste like one so as not to ruin the rest of the sundae if it doesn't.
 

100proof

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False. Explain people here's overblown regard for Last Blade or MotW, or how many times someone brings up the motherfucking "Rain Stage" for fuck's sake. I don't even have to be more specific. Just saying the 2 words, "rain stage", you know exactly what game I'm talking about.

Plus, at the time Street Fighter 2 hit, when Fatal Fury Special hit, when Darkstalkers hit, when Super Street Fighter hit, those WERE top-tier cutting-edge graphics. They were the absolute top graphically and aesthetically of any game being produced at that time. How can you forget that?

Lots of hardcore fighting game fans of the mid to late '90s wouldn't stop talking about how the Virtua Fighter games were so vastly superior to Tekken. But Tekken dominated the living shit out of VF like Lebron dunking on a junior high kid in a wheelchair. Why? You know why. If you're honest with yourself.

Tekken v. Virtua Fighter is kind of a bad example as VF looked better and was more tech-advanced than Tekken pretty much their entire history. Tekken's financial (and long-term) success had more to do with the Playstation becoming ubiquitous and Sega's consoles sputtering.

You are correct about SF2/FF Special/etc. obviously but fighting games haven't been cutting edge in 25 years (save for a couple of Virtua Fighter releases, I guess) and they still sell millions of copies despite that. Not KoF, mind you, but KoF has never been on the same tier as Street Fighter or Mortal Kombat, sales-wise.


Point being, graphics only get you so far in a fighting game. The gameplay, the roster, and nowadays, the quality of online play are the biggest factors. KOF 15 has been great for all three. The graphics are just the cherry on the sundae. It doesn't have to be the tastiest cherry you've ever had, it just has to look and taste like one so as not to ruin the rest of the sundae if it doesn't.

KoF 15's rollback netcode is good but the matchmaking is awful. People are hoping it gets fixed when the crossplay update rolls out.
 

Will Graham

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Pretty certain why tekken beat virtual fighter was because tekken was easier to pick up and play for casual gamers and they gave their characters personalities rather then 2 sentences and no endings like vf did (also helped that tekken appeared on ps1 instead of Saturn).

Also what rain stage? U mean the one in the first ff?
 

SouthtownKid

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also highly doubt people at the time bought KOF 99 just for "the rain stage"
So you think people played it and many still list it as one of their favorite KOFs for the clunky gameplay, half-finished striker system, and stupid armor mode? KOF '99 fucking sucks. If it didn't look and sound nice, it would have nothing going for it, been instantly forgotten, and SNK might have gone bankrupt a year early.
Tekken v. Virtua Fighter is kind of a bad example as VF looked better and was more tech-advanced than Tekken pretty much their entire history.
You're misremembering. VF only ever looked better than Tekken when SEGA would put out the next sequel in response to what Namco had done. For example visually, VF2 looked like a joke running next to Tekken 2. Then eventually, VF just died out, despite all the hardcore players saying the gameplay was better, while Tekken continues and remains popular to this day.

And you're using a bit of circular logic, because Playstation becoming ubiquitous while SEGA floundered was in no small part because the games looked better.
 

100proof

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You're misremembering. VF only ever looked better than Tekken when SEGA would put out the next sequel in response to what Namco had done. For example visually, VF2 looked like a joke running next to Tekken 2. Then eventually, VF just died out, despite all the hardcore players saying the gameplay was better, while Tekken continues and remains popular to this day.

And you're using a bit of circular logic, because Playstation becoming ubiquitous while SEGA floundered was in no small part because the games looked better.

I assure you, I'm remembering fine. I spent an inordinate amount of time between 1992 and 2002 in arcades. VF2 (November '94) came out before Tekken 1 (December '94) in arcades. Tekken 2 was in response to VF2 looking way better. VF3 came out in 96 and looked way better than Tekken 3 when it came out in '97.
 

Fygee

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So you think people played it and many still list it as one of their favorite KOFs for the clunky gameplay, half-finished striker system, and stupid armor mode? KOF '99 fucking sucks. If it didn't look and sound nice, it would have nothing going for it, been instantly forgotten, and SNK might have gone bankrupt a year early.
It's easy now with the hindsight of 23 years to say that, but back then from what I remember people (myself included) enjoyed it because the gameplay didn't deviate that far from 98, the roster was great, and the new systems were something fresh to play with. Sure, the graphics and music helped make it more appealing on top of that, but it certainly wasn't only that.
 

100proof

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Yeah, KoF '99 was a huge failure with the competitive community for the reasons STK mentioned. Also by 1999, the Neo was not even close to being top-flight tech anymore.
 

SignOfZeta

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In 1999 a think we can declare anything 68000 based an antique. That’s like 15 years after the Amiga.

What’s so bad about 99 exactly?
 

Will Graham

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Well personally I never liked the striker system and also I'm not keen on most of the nest saga character designs.

I know I'm in the minority but I do consider the nest era the weakest of the kof sagas.
 

Fygee

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Personally, I had a lot of fun with 99. Disclaimer that I wasn't a KOF pro or anything at the time.

The changes to the character moves, aside from Robert, were enjoyable. I liked the way the gameplay felt. Good roster. Some useful strikers. And, of course, the great (for the Neo) visuals and sound.

I didn't really ever bother with the Offense or Armor systems, and rarely used strikers aside from a select few.

The thing with 99 is that you can easily ignore both of those and still really enjoy the game.

That said, I can definitely understand why it didn't last long in the competitive scene, but really the same argument applies to others that have like KOF 98. Looked and sounded great for the hardware it was one, but it definitely wasn't anything on the level that other, at the time, modern arcade or PC hardware could do. It's stood the test of time because it plays damn good.
 

100proof

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In 1999 a think we can declare anything 68000 based an antique. That’s like 15 years after the Amiga.

What’s so bad about 99 exactly?

All of the striker-based KoF games are kusoge. Pretty much every character can do 100% damage from midscreen either using a striker or activating offense mode. Multiple characters have dirt easy infinites.

Doesn't mean it's not a fun fuck-around game but for people who take fighting games seriously, it's crap.
 

wataru330

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World War III Ikari Team music is about the only thing I like from ‘99.

I’d love to see less KoF (since the annual ‘Madden’ style updates were abandoned, not as much pressure to churn them out) and Real Bout come back.

SamSho 2019 looks neat, and is *fun*. I’d love to see a modern take on RBS in that vein.
 
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