PCE Super SD System 3 - Terraonion New Product (Dec 2017)

Razoola

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Ok...... I have been totally out of it for the last week with flu (I still have it now) so I don't know the full ins and outs of this. I took this to be related to the couple of people who say they got video issues with the rev 2 board....
 

neosd

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Ok...... I have been totally out of it for the last week with flu (I still have it now) so I don't know the full ins and outs of this. I took this to be related to the couple of people who say they got video issues with the rev 2 board....

This is more like caused by the own pcengine being noisy, we have a lot of pcengines and some are more noisy than others. The power supply and the cables used also affect, i would say its a mix of a lot of factors. (i am talking about the video, the audio noise is something different, we are going to work on a software update to reduce audio noise, next week)

I am still waiting for Voultar to explain why Texas Instruments is wrong and he is right. I asked him last saturday about that but he didn´t gave me a clear answer, he just said that Texas Instruments were wrong, that theyr design was wrong cause this cap can´t be mounted this way, he didn´t provided any info i could use to contact Texas Instruments about that.

I would like to write an email to Texas Instruments about this issue, but i cant just tell them : Hey, Voultar says your datasheet is wrong, is he right ? as soon as i got a reasonable answer, i will write Texas Instruments to have more info.
 
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Yodd

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C60 IS installed backwards.

That is a tantalum capacitor, correct?

If so, the stripe on the end indicates that anode or positive side of the capacitor and not the negative side.


Lets look at that TI diagram:

AC-coupled-video.png



This clearly shows the positive side of the cap hooked to the output side of each of the 4 channels of the amp.


However on the SSDS3, C60 is pretty clearly installed the other way around with the negative side facing the amp:

RGB_Section.jpg





As a matter of fact, the silk screen for all 4 cap locations (C13, C14, C16 and C60) is upside down.

SMT_EL_Footprint.png


SMTcasefootprint.png
 
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neodev

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C60 IS installed backwards.

That is a tantalum capacitor, correct?

If so, the stripe on the end indicates that anode or positive side of the capacitor and not the negative side.


Lets look at that TI diagram:

AC-coupled-video.png



This clearly shows the positive side of the cap hooked to the output side of each of the 4 channels of the amp.


However on the SSDS3, C60 is pretty clearly installed the other way around with the negative side facing the amp:

RGB_Section.jpg





As a matter of fact, the silk screen for all 4 cap locations (C13, C14, C16 and C60) is upside down.

SMT_EL_Footprint.png


SMTcasefootprint.png

There are several schematics on that datasheet, some show + pointing to the chip and other to the output (page 25 of the datasheet) so, which one is right, and, does it actually matter then?

Also, it should only affect composite video, as rgb doesn't use the caps anymore, and csync is output in digital form
 
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neosd

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C60 IS installed backwards.

That is a tantalum capacitor, correct?

If so, the stripe on the end indicates that anode or positive side of the capacitor and not the negative side.


Lets look at that TI diagram:

AC-coupled-video.png



This clearly shows the positive side of the cap hooked to the output side of each of the 4 channels of the amp.


However on the SSDS3, C60 is pretty clearly installed the other way around with the negative side facing the amp:

RGB_Section.jpg





As a matter of fact, the silk screen for all 4 cap locations (C13, C14, C16 and C60) is upside down.

SMT_EL_Footprint.png


SMTcasefootprint.png

Todd,

I did a mistake while pasting the picture,

I have edited the image, + is facing the output

http://www.neosdstore.com/news/wp-content/uploads/2018/04/ths7374.pdf

Page 25 on the datasheet
 
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Yodd

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There are several schematics on that datasheet, some show + pointing to the chip and other to the output (page 25 of the datasheet) so, which one is right, and, does it actually matter then?

Also, it should only affect composite video, as rgb doesn't use the caps anymore, and csync is output in digital form


well shit, I didn't realize this was for composite video. I had assumed you ran RGB and comp sync into the 7374.
 

neodev

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well shit, I didn't realize this was for composite video. I had assumed you ran RGB and comp sync into the 7374.

Yes, Rgb goes through the amp but the caps are on the cable instead on on the pcb
 
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Received my unit today, contents are in pristine condition. Any recommendations as to which video cable to use?

They both appear to be out of stock at the moment, but Retro Gaming Cables' PACKAPUNCH cables or Retro Access' Coax Multicore CSYNC cables would be your best options for RGB.
 

leonk

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Reading this thread, one thing comes to mind. I don't see how this device can rid of jailbars that are inherit in the PC Engine without modding the console itself as documented by Tim Worthington a few years ago:

http://etim.net.au/av-driver/pcebars/

Doesn't matter if you use this or Voultar's RGB amp, the console must be modded. Anyone that thinks an external device can fix an inherit flaw in how these consoles were made is mistaken. I think this explains why so many people complain about seeing jailbars. Those that don't, might be playing on previously modded consoles.
 

Yodd

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Reading this thread, one thing comes to mind. I don't see how this device can rid of jailbars that are inherit in the PC Engine without modding the console itself as documented by Tim Worthington a few years ago:

http://etim.net.au/av-driver/pcebars/

Doesn't matter if you use this or Voultar's RGB amp, the console must be modded. Anyone that thinks an external device can fix an inherit flaw in how these consoles were made is mistaken. I think this explains why so many people complain about seeing jailbars. Those that don't, might be playing on previously modded consoles.

I don't think anyone has claimed it can get rid of jailbars. However I have seen some posts at Shmups where I think some people are confused about this and are mistaken Jailbars for other video noise.
 

RevQuixo

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Reading this thread, one thing comes to mind. I don't see how this device can rid of jailbars that are inherit in the PC Engine without modding the console itself as documented by Tim Worthington a few years ago:

http://etim.net.au/av-driver/pcebars/

Doesn't matter if you use this or Voultar's RGB amp, the console must be modded. Anyone that thinks an external device can fix an inherit flaw in how these consoles were made is mistaken. I think this explains why so many people complain about seeing jailbars. Those that don't, might be playing on previously modded consoles.

This isn't jailbars. I've purchased a new PSU to see if perhaps my old one is dying..as that has been suggested as an issue (The SSDS3 and HD Retrovision cables requiring power)

IMG_2343.JPG
 
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cr4zymanz0r

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I'm not exactly buying the whole "oh, it's your console causing the interference" argument. I just installed Voultar's internal RGB amp in my Core Grafx last night (and had previously done the jailbar fix and fully recapped the console, prior to getting the SSDS3) and the RGB output from it (without the SSDS3 attached) is stunning. It's crystal clear and on par with my RGB modded Duo-R.

However when I then attached the SSDS3, if I load games from the SSDS3 itself (particularly CD games) there is still noise added though greatly reduced by using the internal RGB amp I installed. I'll still need to get or make a stereo audio cable to hook to the SSDS3 for audio in CD games, but with the internal RGB amp I think the video noise is reduced to a level I can deal with now. I made a more detailed write-up in the thread over at the shmups forum if you're interested.
 
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Neo NooNaN

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Voultar misspoke. That cap is inline for the composite sync output.

He didn't really misspeak, just left a key word out. CSYNC is composite sync. The cap is backwards in line with using composite video as sync. Those are two different things. (I know that you know this, just clarifying as it read a bit confusing)

So, as long as you're not using composite video as sync (or outputting composite video from the SSD3), you're fine.
 
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trenton_net

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There are several schematics on that datasheet, some show + pointing to the chip and other to the output (page 25 of the datasheet) so, which one is right, and, does it actually matter then?

Also, it should only affect composite video, as rgb doesn't use the caps anymore, and csync is output in digital form

As someone who uses composite when visiting different locations (Without RGB hardware), how does the reversal of this component effect composite output? Will using composite damage the console or super SD system 3 in any way?
 

RevQuixo

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He didn't really misspeak, just left a key word out. CSYNC is composite sync. The cap is backwards in line with using composite video as sync. Those are two different things. (I know that you know this, just clarifying as it read a bit confusing)

So, as long as you're not using composite video as sync (or outputting composite video from the SSD3), you're fine.

So do not use HD Retrovision cables, composite video sync based RGB cables or "old school" composite video cable (yellow, red, white)...

So the million dollar question, what will happen if we do use them?
 

Yodd

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He didn't really misspeak, just left a key word out. CSYNC is composite sync. The cap is backwards in line with using composite video as sync. Those are two different things. (I know that you know this, just clarifying as it read a bit confusing)

So, as long as you're not using composite video as sync (or outputting composite video from the SSD3), you're fine.

This has already been covered several posts up. I was mistaken when I said composite sync. Voultar was correct.
 

monads

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As someone who uses composite when visiting different locations (Without RGB hardware), how does the reversal of this component effect composite output? Will using composite damage the console or super SD system 3 in any way?

Same here, I'm a little confused by all this now. I've been using a regular genesis2 AV cable connected to the SD System3 with an old CRT. Is this not correct or harmful now?
 

Dan Hero

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Mine arrived today, but I had very little time to try it, since ATM I'm still at work -_-

Anyway, great packaging, and it works wonders on my original, white PCE with Megadrive PSU and Retro Gaming Cables' Megadrive 2 RGB cable on a SONY Trinitron. Waiting for a replacement Super Grafx PSU to arrive, so I can switch console, but the result is really awesome, and well worth the wait.

Thank you again, Terraonion.
 

MobiusStripTech

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Same here, I'm a little confused by all this now. I've been using a regular genesis2 AV cable connected to the SD System3 with an old CRT. Is this not correct or harmful now?

Yes it is not correct and has the potential to be harmful.

Hey Alex! I would be willing to swap the caps around for people in the US if it would be ok with you and your team.
 

neosd

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Yes it is not correct and has the potential to be harmful.

Hey Alex! I would be willing to swap the caps around for people in the US if it would be ok with you and your team.

I am tired, i can´t live with this anymore.

I am considering those options right now :

Not selling any more Super SD System 3 and ship all pending orders.

Put my time in other thing and move along.

I can´t live with all this shit alone. Sorry, i got burnt by you guys and this RGB party. Well done
 

F4U57

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Take a week off and relax man, geez.

I have a pending order and I’m in no rush for it to be delivered.

You guy do amazing work. Just take this in your stride as a learning experience and move forward.

Head up. Seriously, take some time off before your physical and mental health shuts down.
 

Gamepimp

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I agree. This is a very unique product and I'm absolutely thrilled with mine so far. The RGB video looks awesome and the slight buzz in the audio is hardly noticeable on my SuperGrafx. As long as it's not going to do any damage to my hardware, I'm extremely satisfied. I think it might be wise to stop selling units for now until some of these issues get ironed out. Hopefully that will also give you guys some time to decompress and regain some strength from all of this. Don't give up or be deterred. The retro gaming community needs guys like you to develop these amazing devices so we can continue to enjoy the classics. I'm behind TO 100% and look forward to the new "toys" you guys have in the works. ;)
 

GadgetUK

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Yes it is not correct and has the potential to be harmful.

Hey Alex! I would be willing to swap the caps around for people in the US if it would be ok with you and your team.

Sorry, maybe I am missing something here, but how exactly is a coupling cap being the wrong way around having the potential to be harmful? The level is so very low, and that kind of thing happened in Amiga 500's with the audio coupling caps - they lasted 30+ years and still work perfectly today despite the caps being the wrong way around. Not having a go here, just trying to understand what the concerns actually are!

EDIT: Is this a bypass cap? Just trying to catch up - bear with me!
 
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