MJ1984 likely scammer on gaming forums (was PS3 sale gone bad)

[68k]

Original sales thread in reference

I recently sold this PS3 on the forums to member MJ1984. This system was in excellent condition and fully working at the time.

I shipped the system to the seller on 6/4/2012, and asked that he report to me when it arrives (pretty standard).

On 6/13, I receive this PM from him:

Hey there,
I just played the PS3 today for the first time, and it worked for 30 minutes before shutting off and giving me the yellow light of death. Seems like the re-flow fix is just a temporary fix for the yellow light - did it die on you before? Anyway, I'd like to send this back to you if possible. Let me know.
-Matt

After some back and forth correspondence, I agreed to attempt to repair the system. This was the PM I sent in regards to the agreement.

Matt,

I am OK with that, but I can't guarantee that it will work, or for how long it will work. If you are OK with that, then send it to me and I will reflow the chips for you.

The issue may not be the GPU or CPU in this case. The large PS3s also suffer from power supply failures, so that could be another issue. The yellow light is just a "general hardware error".

-Rob

The PS3 arrived, and the box showed no signs of physical damage. When I pulled the system out of the box, the card reader door plate was missing, and there is a large scrape near the power/eject buttons.


I inquired as to what the damage was from, and he implied that it arrived damaged. He assumed that this was the condition the item was in when I had it.

Yesterday, I sent him this PM:

You didn't tell me about it being damaged when you got it. I would have noted that the console was damaged in my sales thread.

It couldn't have happened in shipping. There is a large scrape near the power/eject panel, almost as if something was dropped on it while it was outside of the box.

Considering that the condition of the system is worse than the condition it left, I do not feel comfortable even plugging this thing in to test it. I am going to mail this back to you as it is.

-Rob

To which he replied:

So you are not going to do what we agreed upon and fix the broken PS3 you sent me? I was giving you the benefit of the doubt when I received the system - it had a broken card reader door that likely happened during shipping, no big deal. The scratches on the system I assumed were due to wear from a system that had been previously repaired, also no big deal. I'm sure the scratches were there when you sent it to me. I played the system for 30 minutes and it died on me. That's pretty god damn close to dead on arrival sir. I've been a member of these forums since 2005 (longer than you have) and my feedback score is flawless (identical to yours). Why would I lie about this? If you don't go through with your end of the bargain, I'll be forced to attempt to get my money back from paypal for sending me a falsely advertised item.

Now, I have traded on this forum for years, and I have never had any problems with any transactions on this forum. I have sold PCBs that are far more expensive than a PS3. Obviously, I am not out to steal anyone's money.

However, my issues are:
*The damaged console was never reported to me
*The PS3 worked upon arrival as stated by the buyer. The failure is still unknown

I want to be as fair as possible, so this is where I want to ask the forum for their opinions. If I am not being fair, please let me know, but I want this to be fair for BOTH parties.

 

[Opethian]

I remember when Rob got this PS3 in its working condition and that door definitely was not stressed like that. If I got a system like that in the mail I would have notified the seller immediately.

 

[evil wasabi]

tell him you will fix it and ship it.

mail him a peanutbutter jelly sandwich.

 

[ookitarepanda]

Honestly, I would have recorded the serial number on my original unit before sending it. I get the feeling like there are a lot of people, even with flawless trading records, who would buy a new PS3 because theirs was broken, and then claim the one they received from a sale was broken - they'd send to the seller their broken PS3 and keep the nice, new working one.

That's all in first read. I can't imagine that the damage in those pictures could be done in shipping. In addition, your buyer has been awfully defensive about the whole thing when your PMs seem to be pretty calm.

But from what I've seen, reflows of PS3s usually extend the life by a tiny amount. So it wouldn't be out of the question that the thing gave the yellow light.

 

[68k]

I believe this to be the original system (never thought about someone swapping the systems, I suppose it could happen).

I don't think that's the case here.

I don't know of many people who record serial numbers of the items they sell, but I suppose it's not a bad idea.

 

[cdamm]

so he failed to mention that it was damaged further. that shit is on the buyer. i hate to be that cold about it, but you were up front about the reflow and he sends you back physically damaged goods. id send the system back and say you did not inform me of what really happened its on you. its his fault. not to mention that he 'just found out' that a reflow was not necessarily a permanent solution. The buyer needs to know what they are buying. if they do not do their due diligence, it is really their own fault.

condition wise it looks like you sold it to that earthbound battery swap guy. you showed me pics of that system when you got it (you were stoked to get it). I can attest that damage was not there when rob was working on it.

 

[evil wasabi]

to be fair, he's not asking for a new shell. The damage to the system that occurred after you shipped should bar any refund on the sale, but it doesn't hurt to check if the system can be fixed.

 

[68k]

Thanks for attesting to the condition of the system. I have been digging around for photos that are detailed enough to show the condition, but I don't have them anymore.

Ope did see this system in person shortly after I got it.

 

[cdamm]

Thanks for attesting to the condition of the system. I have been digging around for photos that are detailed enough to show the condition, but I don't have them anymore.

Ope did see this system in person shortly after I got it.

i dont think i saved them, but i'll look too for you.

 

[Kid Panda]

I for one do not believe this damage occured during shipping, I have bought MANY fragile things from 68k and NOT ONE THING had ever had the slightest bit of damage. I'm just sayin..

 

[SetaSouji??]

Someone took a flathead to that shell.

 

[68k]

Thanks for the advice guys.

The buyer has been made aware of this thread and can discuss his concerns here.

 

[SonGohan]

Most people aren't a stickler for condition. I just read the sales thread, and the condition wasn't even stated at all. The guy could have opened it, saw the condition, and realized why the price was so cheap, so he didn't bother complaining. $175 is a great price, and he probably expected it to have some wear on it. In reality, since you don't have the serial # written down, or pictures to back up your claims of it's condition before it left you, it's your word against his. All you're left with is his claim that it didn't work when he got it (or, that it died within 30 minutes). Taking away all the other things that can't be proven, it boils down to whether or not you think selling him a system that died within 30 minutes warrants a refund. You may just want to suck it up, and either fix it or give him a refund, and just be careful about how you word future selling threads, as well as keep a record of pictures and serial numbers of things you also sell (and your refund policy, if you have or don't have one).

 

[68k]

Most people aren't a stickler for condition.

In the land of insertion marks?

Several people have attested to it's condition, and one person here has seen this system in person. Why didn't I take photos and post them in the selling thread? People know what a PS3 looks like, and I would have noted major physical defects such as a broken card reader cover. It was my mistake not taking photos...

I am a stickler for condition, and I wouldn't sell it if it was physically damaged unless the damage was noted. My selling reputation here and the testimonies above can lend credibility to this.

I would have had no problem with attempting to repair the system, and eventually a refund if the system remained inoperable after all attempts.

It showed up physically damaged, and that's when I had a problem. It's obvious it was not damaged in shipping.

 

[cdamm]

It's obvious it was not damaged in shipping.

whenever shipping electronics i make sure that there are loose flathead screwdrivers and files rattling around in the box.

 

[SonGohan]

In the land of insertion marks?

Several people have attested to it's condition, and one person here has seen this system in person. Why didn't I take photos and post them in the selling thread? People know what a PS3 looks like, and I would have noted major physical defects such as a broken card reader cover. It was my mistake not taking photos...

I am a stickler for condition, and I wouldn't sell it if it was physically damaged unless the damage was noted. My selling reputation here and the testimonies above can lend credibility to this.

I would have had no problem with attempting to repair the system, and eventually a refund if the system remained inoperable after all attempts.

It showed up physically damaged, and that's when I had a problem. It's obvious it was not damaged in shipping.

First, let's get real, we're talking about a PS3, not a Neo Geo homecart.

With that said, you still gave ZERO description of it in the selling thread. You can't go off on the premise that people are going to assume that the condition is okay just because you didn't write anything. I'm just telling you that it's always a good idea to take pictures of stuff that you're selling, no matter how small time you think it is, and describe it the best you can, even if it's only a couple lines of description. At least it's something. As I've said, it's pretty much your word versus his in the matter, and, who knows, maybe you're both right (it was in fine condition when it left you, and he received it damaged during shipment). Another easy way to take care of this is if you had the package insured (did you? I don't think that was ever mentioned). If you did, you could just file a claim and have the shipping carrier come out and inspect the damage. If the carrier deems it their fault, then he gets a refund, and if not, then the guy can write it off as his loss.

Regardless of anything else, you can at least walk away from this situation with a new perspective on selling things. As a seller, you can't take too many precautions when dealing with people. Take pictures, describe in detail, and always get it insured. Hell, I've sold a PS3 on these forums that had defects, but I detailed everything, and even went as far as to take a video of it in proper working order before it left. I wanted to have all my evidence ready in case something came up. 99% of the time, nothing does, but when you get that 1%, nothing beats having pictures and/or videos, a detailed description, insurance, and email logs ready to go so you aren't screwed.

Good luck with this.

 

[BanishingFlatsAC]

I've done well over 10 transactions with Rob over the years. He is always up front about any issues with items he has and any glaring flaws they may have. If the system had a busted CFR door and was scratched to shit, Im sure he would have listed that in the sales thread. I've never met a person who gets anything in the mail in pieces and says, "Oh thats why it was so cheap!" ....it just doesn't make any sense.

 

[SonGohan]

No, but there are people who don't care about having a beatup PS3, as long as it works. The guy said himself he didn't care about the condition, he just wanted it to work.

 

[BanishingFlatsAC]

Beat up is one thing Wes, but if this item was indeed damaged in transit, the door and some plastic pieces would have been floating around in the box. Upon opening the box and seeing this, Id assume most people would want to instantly test it to see if it was damaged in shipping. Also, when you email the seller about it not working, don't you think you'd mention this fact to him. MJ simply mailing it back and only disclosing this when Rob asked him about the condition seems strange to me thats all.

 

[cdamm]

MJ simply mailing it back and only disclosing this when Rob asked him about the condition seems strange to me thats all.

thats the one. right there. thats where my red flags are going off.

i dont think it is a matter of damage in shipping. my theory is the guy opened it up- screwed up whatever job he did and tried to get a quick refund.

 

[SonGohan]

I admit that this whole thing is one big mess. That's why I'm trying to just stick with the facts. It's completely believable to me that the guy got the system in the mail, saw it's condition, and just cared about it working. Getting into a guy's head on why he did or didn't say, or do something can be a slippery slope.

 

[SonGohan]

thats the one. right there. thats where my red flags are going off.

i dont think it is a matter of damage in shipping. my theory is the guy opened it up- screwed up whatever job he did and tried to get a quick refund.

This is why it pays to have pictures of your stuff. It'd be easy to post them and say "sorry pal." Then the situation is done.

And insurance is king.

 

[Yodd]

I don't want to agree with either side, however the original listing should have contained at least a basic description of the condition of the unit and preferably some photos.

And I would think the buyer would have made contact with 68k over the condition if it arrived like that. I know I would have. I personally expect everything I buy to be in good condition unless otherwise noted, regardless of the price.

 

[Yodd]

Also I don't know if insurance is going to help in this case. If they do an investigation they are going to want to look at the original box and how it was packed. I am assuming all this is gone.

The claim guy is probably going to tell ya to go piss up a rope cause they ain't doing shit for ya.

 

[MJ1984]

My story:

I received the PS3 shortly after Rob sent it - very quick shipping, which I appreciated. I didn't, however, have a chance to test it until about 4-5 days after it arrived. I opened the box and I noticed the PS3 was in decent condition. The memory card door was cracked and broken off - which I assumed was damaged during shipping and I didn't really care about that since I wasn't buying this thing for aesthetics. There were mild scratches all over the case - I figured hey, it's a launch system and it's been repaired - no big deal. I turned it on, it worked fine, and I started playing games on it. I played a PS3 Motorstorm game and then I inserted a PS2 Mega man x collection disc which loaded fine. Then, approximately 30 mins after turning it on, the system cut off. I tried to turn it back on and all I got was the yellow light signaling a hardware failure. That's when I contacted the seller.

We came to the agreement that he would re-flow the system. I didn't demand a refund or anything drastic - I just wanted an attempt at a repair.

Admittedly, I was not aware that a re-flow was only a temporary fix prior to purchasing this system. That's my fault, and I accept the fact that it will probably crap out sometime in the near future. But I didn't pay $175 to play the PS3 for 30 mins and then be stuck with an ugly brick that won't even give me back my PS2 Mega Man X collection game. I also didn't pay to ship the system back to the seller just for him to tell me he wasn't going to even plug it in because of the perceived damage that was incurred after he sent it to me. Of course I became defensive when he gave me that reply in a PM.

At this point, I would still like for him to attempt a repair at this thing, and I think that's a more-than-reasonable offer from my end. Although I don't have many posts on this site, I have been a member since 2005 and I have 68 positive feedback - which should count for something as to my credibility. As for the pictures of the damaged memory card slot cover hinge - I don't recall it looking like someone stuck a screwdriver inside it and intentionally tried to bend it (which is exactly what it looks like), but my memory could be off. I've attached pics of the broken cover which I still have at my house, and they strangely don't show any bends or scuff marks that look like they would be compatible with the damage to the hinge that Rob is showing in his pics.

Please feel free to comment now that you have both sides of the story.