Why isn't there a homebrew market for the Neo Geo?

smokey

massive ding dong
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Yeah, exactly. It means the Neo Geo version is protected while the DC one gets pirated all day long. It's their game though, so they get to do as they please.
True , I doubt we will ever see new Neo Geo game from them again. I think they are going. Current gen all the way
 

SignOfGoob

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True , I doubt we will ever see new Neo Geo game from them again. I think they are going. Current gen all the way

Then I guess they are doomed to obscurity forever. Being Neo developers, high end ones, was their claim to fame. Without that they are just GBA level devs with no native platform, no scene…it’s hard to get noticed on Switch, almost impossible on Steam…
 

Tarma

Old Man
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But do you really think that anybody can or will recreate the quality level of SNK both sprite and gameplay-wise? and make a profit? That is just impossible.
TEOT sold like 50 cartridges. Nobody can make a profit from that. They had fun making it I have fun playing it with my son. He always starts laughing when the fat guy does his little moonwalk.
Have you played the ROM? yes, it is a simple button masher but they made some fun additions. Every time you press player 2 a smile comes to my face.
When I first heard the price I was shocked but I wanted to support them anyways because I loved reading the thread.

Yes, why not? Not everyone is in it for profit, and even with that facet put aside, a competent programmer and graphic artist should be able to put together a neo geo game that is on a par with what SNK put out there. It may take time, but it's certainly achievealbe - it's not as if the Neo used some weird programming language or anything.

It's been nearly 17 years since NG:Dev released Last Hope and you're telling me in all that time no one has the skill or time to produce something anywhere near approaching what SNK did 25 years ago with the advances of modern technology???

TEOT is probably the closest, but sadly looks like Fight Fever and doesn't play much better (imo) - and again, the ground work was already laid for this title.

If it's not "profitable" to make a proper AES/MVS game or there's no one out there with the talent to do it properly why bother.

If Ferarri packed up making cars but someone built you a tribute car based on Ferrari running gear with a Trabant body would you buy it and hold it in the same esteem? No you fucking wouldn't, and neither would anyone else. Why do it with the Neo-Geo?
 

Tarma

Old Man
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No, I meant that differently. Do you still think about what you did at your job 20 years ago? That is why they don't care.
My brother-in-law has programmed Divine Divinity 2, Far Cry, Killzone 3, Horizon Zero Dawn, and Death Stranding. He doesn't give two shits about all of that stuff. If somebody makes a Killzone 3 3DO version. He would never know of be charmed by it. Because he wouldn't find out he simply doesn't care.

Why would you make a 3DO version of Killzone 3? It's shit.

But case in point - those with the talent to deliver what you really want (a shiny new AES/MVS/CD release) aren't interested. So we have to accept third rate wannabe shovelware instead?

No thanks.
 

Johnny16Bit

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Topic is a bit all over the place, imo, as transcodes, ports, hacks, original coding and entirely original productions made specifically for the neo geo are completely different things, - and so are making one such project for the hell of it, or for profit, as an "independant studio" or "a homebrew".

Common point though is that the system is still a bitch to work with. So if you're doing this fun, it's not going to be everybody's definition of fun. And if you're doing it for actual business, it's going to equal extra development costs. To such extent that even bringing existing assets to the neo geo (the BB way) is not guaranteed to be viable.

If you add that to the expense of producing assets (or purchasing an existing licence from people who'd rather keep it, and possibly have you work for them for a pitance), the neo geo is definitely not the right platform for "shovelware". Especially as you either have to spend extra $$$ to either protect your software, or make a physical product excellent enough to ensure potential buyers will prefer your expensive edition to the cheap bootlegs that will be circulating in no time - because when you're making a small volume / high margin game, you'll be attracting plenty of bootleggers, and every single one of them will mean a big loss for you.

So if you what you expect from a modern production is a game on par with what one of the top Japanese arcade publishers made for their own system at the height of their glory days... I doubt you'll ever have it. And yeah, if that is your standard, you can call homebrews shit - but saying they're easy cash grabs...
That, you should reconsider :D
 

smokey

massive ding dong
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Then I guess they are doomed to obscurity forever. Being Neo developers, high end ones, was their claim to fame. Without that they are just GBA level devs with no native platform, no scene…it’s hard to get noticed on Switch, almost impossible on Steam…
Very true, now they still ride on their NG fame. But that will change
 

Neo Alec

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Topic is a bit all over the place, imo, as transcodes, ports, hacks, original coding and entirely original productions made specifically for the neo geo are completely different things, - and so are making one such project for the hell of it, or for profit, as an "independant studio" or "a homebrew".

Common point though is that the system is still a bitch to work with. So if you're doing this fun, it's not going to be everybody's definition of fun. And if you're doing it for actual business, it's going to equal extra development costs. To such extent that even bringing existing assets to the neo geo (the BB way) is not guaranteed to be viable.

If you add that to the expense of producing assets (or purchasing an existing licence from people who'd rather keep it, and possibly have you work for them for a pitance), the neo geo is definitely not the right platform for "shovelware". Especially as you either have to spend extra $$$ to either protect your software, or make a physical product excellent enough to ensure potential buyers will prefer your expensive edition to the cheap bootlegs that will be circulating in no time - because when you're making a small volume / high margin game, you'll be attracting plenty of bootleggers, and every single one of them will mean a big loss for you.

So if you what you expect from a modern production is a game on par with what one of the top Japanese arcade publishers made for their own system at the height of their glory days... I doubt you'll ever have it. And yeah, if that is your standard, you can call homebrews shit - but saying they're easy cash grabs...
That, you should reconsider :D
All great points. But 'gamers' don't consider or care about any of that. You will never get gamers to consider a company or developer's position in any of this. They only want to know, "What's in it for me?" Which is fine if you're just busy with a life, but pretty stupid if all you do is go online and whine about, "I don't understand why X developer doesn't do this," when clearly the answer is always a combination of economics and technological limitations.

They just want to consume whatever gets made and then beg for more. I've never encountered a more spoiled, entitled group of people than modern gamers. At least the old timer Neo Geo collectors tend to be of an older generation that isn't quite as bad.

Sorry for the rant. This obviously extends way beyond the Neo Geo and homebrew.
 
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SignOfGoob

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It’s definitely not impossible to make a high end Neo game. It just won’t happen. You’d need like $1M at least. You’d need a budget and a plan and staff that don’t need to have another job just to eat. You’d need super super talented programers (who can actually work with other humans) and several artists and sound people. You’d need a good idea and…your game can’t be a sequel to anything SNK made, you can’t just sprite swap Fatal Fury or whatever. How often did even SNK actually start completely from scratch on a game? A lot of their stuff was kinda “Save As…” in its construction.

Another thing is…people kinda insist on being paid these days. The generation that slept under their desk seven nights a week for Japanese minimum wage is gone and it isn’t coming back. The games SNK made back then would be hard to make now if for no other reason than the fact that you’d have to shell out WAY more in wages and hire more people to do what used to be a single person’s job.

The reason Neo games aren’t getting made is not completely disconnected from the reasons why they don’t make pyramids in Egypt anymore, honestly, or cathedrals in Paris. No working professional loves this stuff so much anymore that they’d live or die for it (and slavery is much less common.) You basically need a company big enough to have an HR department. Fonzie ain’t going to make no damned Garou.

Verdict: make it in C for something current and way more powerful.
 
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AppleiDog

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Paprium having preordered it was what alot of the excitement was. And when I actually got it was pure enjoyment like finding a unicorn riding a leprechaun eating a Lochness monster soup
 

Tarma

Old Man
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So if you what you expect from a modern production is a game on par with what one of the top Japanese arcade publishers made for their own system at the height of their glory days... I doubt you'll ever have it. And yeah, if that is your standard, you can call homebrews shit - but saying they're easy cash grabs...
That, you should reconsider :D
I've never said they're easy cash grabs - but, yes, Neo Geo homebrew is shit.... by my standards.
 
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