The death of Trayvon Martin

evil wasabi

The Jongmaster
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I fucking love this guy.

Yeah, but he makes a point that this let a lot of racist people have a soapbox to stand on. From wachenroder and mainman, I imagine myself and many of us looked pretty racist. I don't think that should be the case, and I don't think Barkley is correct saying that racial profiling definitely happened. Either way, if anyone thinks I am racist, feel free to pm me or start a thread and complain. I won't retaliate. If I really was saying racist stuff, I will apologize.
 

ki_atsushi

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Yeah, but he makes a point that this let a lot of racist people have a soapbox to stand on. From wachenroder and mainman, I imagine myself and many of us looked pretty racist. I don't think that should be the case, and I don't think Barkley is correct saying that racial profiling definitely happened. Either way, if anyone thinks I am racist, feel free to pm me or start a thread and complain. I won't retaliate. If I really was saying racist stuff, I will apologize.

I don't agree with every word he said, but he was dead on on a lot of stuff. He did however make sure to mention that black people can be very racist too and that the racist on both sides were using this case negatively. Which is true.

Whether or not you agree with the profiling bit the argument definitely holds up.

Was George Zimmerman really profiling that guy? No one knows his heart, he may have been to an extent.

No matter what anyone says, we all think racist things from time to time, even if we don't consciously act on them. And if you say no you're lying to yourself.
 

SonGohan

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Yeah, but he makes a point that this let a lot of racist people have a soapbox to stand on. From wachenroder and mainman, I imagine myself and many of us looked pretty racist. I don't think that should be the case, and I don't think Barkley is correct saying that racial profiling definitely happened. Either way, if anyone thinks I am racist, feel free to pm me or start a thread and complain. I won't retaliate. If I really was saying racist stuff, I will apologize.

YGPM
 

neobuyer

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Anybody that thinks I'm wrong on this, let us know:

George Zimmerman was/is very likely nothing more than a no-life, not particularly bright nerd of a guy, who wanted to do something 'positive' for the community (re: something that might earn his milquetoast ass some respect from people for once.) A big pussy kind of a guy, naïve and totally not up to the task of doing anything confrontational in a neighborhood watch capacity. Re: Barney Fife.

Trayvon was a pretty typical young guy who grew up wanting to emulate his heroes and get respect from people by being a tough guy who would beat peoples asses if they got in his face. Y'know- like a lot of guys his age growing up listening to gangsta shit and watching MMA fights. He was young and had something to prove to the world in order to make his place in it. He wanted to kick some ass, to be the kind of dude he idolized in pop culture- this isn't uncommon among guys of all races at his age.

Now, when you put pussy + gun together with ass kicking tough young wannabe badass, you have the unlikely- but altogether possible outcome- of the armed pussy freaking out while getting an MMA beatdown for the first time in his adult life and thinking the ass kicking was gonna kill him or the like. What do you guys think could very well happen in that situation?

A sad, tragic, ridiculous fucking mismatch situation. But hardly one that fits the very serious charge of 2nd degree murder.

Now on to my deeper, macro assessment of why this has become such an explosive race issue: The death of Trayvon Martin is a cypher, a stand in for the very real, fucked up reality of our nations police committing criminal acts of 2nd and 1st degree murder against young black people- and getting away with it every time (almost).

The freakazoid, conflict-of-interest having 'civil rights' leaders, combined with the completely out of control, sons of Mammon major media outlets have exploited this tragicomedy killing for their own benefit. Because they know they don't have the courage to take the very unpopular (no money or power to be gained) position of blaming the nation's police culture.

Black people have every right to be outraged about what is done to them on a regular basis, I know I am.

But Zimmerman isn't the problem, he was more a public sacrifice.

It's like the simple minded George W Bush attacking Iraq in revenge for a crime they didn't even commit.
 

OrochiEddie

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I don't agree with every word he said, but he was dead on on a lot of stuff. He did however make sure to mention that black people can be very racist too and that the racist on both sides were using this case negatively. Which is true.

Whether or not you agree with the profiling bit the argument definitely holds up.

Was George Zimmerman really profiling that guy? No one knows his heart, he may have been to an extent.

No matter what anyone says, we all think racist things from time to time, even if we don't consciously act on them. And if you say no you're lying to yourself.
Everyone has implicit beliefs. To deny that is to deny yourself. This is due to our families, the media, and even our own interactions. It is important to be aware of your biases and not let them run your reactions which is what happens much more than blatant KKK Aryan race style racism.

Over the past few years during my training I have become much more aware of my implicit biases. I could list them pretty soundly, but I challenge them when I can. I think of my actions and instant thoughts that come to mind.

George Zimmerman was/is very likely nothing more than a no-life, not particularly bright nerd of a guy, who wanted to do something 'positive' for the community (re: something that might earn his milquetoast ass some respect from people for once.) A big pussy kind of a guy, naïve and totally not up to the task of doing anything confrontational in a neighborhood watch capacity. Re: Barney Fife.

If I am not mistaken Zimmerman had run into trouble for violent crimes in the past. That should have no weight on the sentencing, but it can help explain his initial decision to go after Martin.


But Zimmerman isn't the problem, he was more a public sacrifice.
I think you are dead on here. He became the image of the social issue that exists.

Sadly I think the point of this whole event is to challenge us and become introspective on our thoughts and actions, but instead everyone is just pointing fingers at each other.
 
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Lemony Vengeance

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Oh jeez.. now the president weighs in. AGAIN

http://nbcpolitics.nbcnews.com/_new...rayvon-martin-could-have-been-me-35-years-ago

By Michael O'Brien, Political Reporter, NBC News
President Barack Obama made a surprise appearance at the White House Friday to discuss African-Americans' reaction to last weekend's verdict in the George Zimmerman case, saying that "Trayvon Martin could have been me 35 years ago."
"You know, when Trayvon Martin was first shot, I said that this could have been my son. Another way of saying that is Trayvon Martin could have been me 35 years ago. And when you think about why, in the African- American community at least, there's a lot of pain around what happened here, I think it's important to recognize that the African- American community is looking at this issue through a set of experiences and a history that -- that doesn't go away," he said.

Making a surprise appearance in the White House press room, President Obama discusses his views on the Trayvon Martin verdict, and how it feels as an African American to have these "inescapable" experiences.
Obama addressed the issue personally as well, saying, “There are very few African-American men in this country who haven’t had the experience of being followed when they are shopping at a department store. And that includes me.”
He recalled his own experiences before becoming a nationally-recognized politician, noting, “There are very few African- American men who haven’t had the experience of walking across the street and hearing the locks click on the doors of cars. That happens to me, at least before I was a senator. There are very few African-Americans who haven’t had the experience of getting on an elevator and a woman clutching her purse nervously and holding her breath until she had a chance to get off.”
And he contended that these attitudes often shape perceptions in the United States.
“I don't want to exaggerate this, but those sets of experiences inform how the African-American community interprets what happened one night in Florida and it's inescapable for people to bring those experiences to bear,” he said.
Asked if the president had thoroughly contemplated his remarks, White House Press Secretary Jay Carney said, “I don’t think there’s any question, and you can judge by what he just said and how he said it, he knows what he thinks and he knows what he feels, and he had not just in the past week but for a good portion of his life given a lot of thought to these issues.”
Obama also suggested that the outcome of the case could have been different if Martin were white. "If a white male teen would have been involved in this scenario," he said, "both the outcome and the aftermath might have been different."
The president also nodded to the Justice Department investigation which is probing whether or not to bring federal civil rights charges against Zimmerman. But Obama also urged state and local officials to review their own procedures to see how to improve their law enforcement practices.
He also called for a review of so-called "Stand Your Ground" laws, a central issue in the case.
"If Trayvon Martin was of age and was armed, could he have stood his ground on that sidewalk?" Obama asked. "If the answer to that question is at least ambiguous, then it seems to me that we should examine those laws."
Obama said he wanted to "reiterate what I said on Sunday, which is there are going to be a lot of arguments about the legal issues in the case. I'll let all the legal analysts and talking heads address those issues."

In his first public remarks after the acquittal by a Florida court of Travyon Martin's shooter, George Zimmerman, President Obama says, "Trayvon Martin could have been me, 35 years ago."
The president added, "The judge conducted the trial in a professional manner. The prosecution and the defense made their arguments. The jurors were properly instructed that in a case such as this, reasonable doubt was relevant and they rendered a verdict. And once the jury's spoken, that's how our system works."
And though Obama sidestepped the idea of demanding a new, national conversation on race -- and while he said that racism was far from eliminated -- the president ended on an upbeat moment, expressing his view that race relations are "getting better."
"I don’t want us to lose sight that things are getting better. Each successive generation seems to be making progress in changing attitudes when it comes to race. I doesn’t mean that we’re in a post racial society. It doesn’t mean that racism is eliminated," he said. "But you know, when I talk to Malia and Sasha and I listen to their friends and I see them interact, they’re better than we are."
Obama added: "We have to be vigilant and we have to work on these issues, and those of us in authority should be doing everything we can to encourage the better angels of our nature as opposed to using these episodes to heighten divisions. But we should also have confidence that kids these days I think have more sense than we did back then, and certainly more than our parents did or our grandparents did, and that along this long, difficult journey, we’re becoming a more perfect union -- not a perfect union, but a more perfect union."
 
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bloodhokuto

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OK, this might be a stupid question, as I haven't really followed this story much.

Why wasn't Zimmerman charged with manslaughter.

He was having a struggle and shot him, they would have gotten him easier on that charge rather than Murder 2??
 

evil wasabi

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OK, this might be a stupid question, as I haven't really followed this story much.

Why wasn't Zimmerman charged with manslaughter.

He was having a struggle and shot him, they would have gotten him easier on that charge rather than Murder 2??

He was charged with manslaughter too.
 

bloodhokuto

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Wait, so he got off of that too on the basis of this self defence law thing?

Jesus Christ America, your criminal justice system is fucked up.
 

Earthquake24

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Wait, so he got off of that too on the basis of this self defence law thing?

Jesus Christ America, your criminal justice system is fucked up.

Eyewitnesses who testified and the physical evidence presented backed GZ and his claims that he wasn't the aggressor. TM came face to face with him, punched him in the nose, dropped him, got on top of him and pummeled him on the concrete sidewalk. There was no struggle or fight. Just a beatdown.
 

bloodhokuto

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Ah, I see.

As I said I haven't really been following this story.

What you say, sounds pretty straightforward then, although I think that in the UK Zimmerman would have had trouble avoiding some kind of unlawful killing charge completely (disregarding the fact that a gun or any other deadly weapon equivalent was used).

The question is then, if the trial was a accurate summary of what occurred, why is there so much unhappiness with the verdict?

Is it just that, perhaps regardless of the circumstances of this case, that had the table been turned and a honky or a mexi-white been murdered by a dark brown fellow (think that offends all there), regardless of the facts, he would have been put away for 20 years? (Like that woman in that other story who got sent down for firing a warning shot).

Mind you, I'm still not gonna retract my scathing criticism of your Justice system, because it is unarguably backward and fucked up.
 

norton9478

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There is no evidence that GZ wasn't the aggressor...
 

Lemony Vengeance

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Ah, I see.

As I said I haven't really been following this story.

What you say, sounds pretty straightforward then, although I think that in the UK Zimmerman would have had trouble avoiding some kind of unlawful killing charge completely (disregarding the fact that a gun or any other deadly weapon equivalent was used).

The question is then, if the trial was a accurate summary of what occurred, why is there so much unhappiness with the verdict?

Is it just that, perhaps regardless of the circumstances of this case, that had the table been turned and a honky or a mexi-white been murdered by a dark brown fellow (think that offends all there), regardless of the facts, he would have been put away for 20 years? (Like that woman in that other story who got sent down for firing a warning shot).

Mind you, I'm still not gonna retract my scathing criticism of your Justice system, because it is unarguably backward and fucked up.

People are trying to make this a RACE issue, even though GZ is half peruvian, half white. The Media has called him a "White Latino"

The president is half white too, can I call him a "White African American"?
 

Lagduf

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I heard that dude had like 30 goddamn dicks

Pffft.

Blasphemy.

PS: I named my cat George Washington. The Lord Crom knew him to be a false George Washington and thus he was only bestowed with a single dick.
 
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