PS3 and 360 on 4:3 display

Wachenroder

Giga Shock!!
HOLY WALL OF TEXT!



Ok so I've been trying to find solutions to playing certain HD era (PS3 and 360) games (mostly certain PS2 games and remasters like Banjo Tooie, Nights into Dreams and Capcom/NeoGeo Station arcade games like SF3 MvC, Metal Slug etc...) on my 20L5.

So far the results have been pretty nice. There are a surprising number of games that output a really nice full 4:3 image with no boarders. The image is also much more vibrant and sharp on the PVM over my ASUS Vh236H monitor which is very surprising to me.

Some of them do need screen adjustments to the image since a bit of the image is cutoff with the default settings but its no biggie. Settings do save.

PS3 has been pretty painless so far. Apparently much like PS2 it supports 480P via what im assuming is RGsB.

PS2 games I have all the settings on default. No smoothing or scaling. I've only tested one game so far (the reason im hooking PS3 up to a CRT in the first place) Fatal Frame 1 and while it does look comparatively good to actual PS2, it seems to have some sort of weird sync issues. Like screen tearing or something? I'm not sure if its a result of the PS3 outputting progressive on a interlaced game or if its just a quirk of this particular game. Gonna test other games soon.

Actual PS3 games run great. Every Capcom and NeoGeo arcade game I tried has a proper 4:3 image and looks great. Unfortunately some games dont work properly on 4:3. So far i've had issues with Dark Awake (borders on the sides and the picture looks sort of vertically stretched and im not sure if there is an option to fix it) Guilty Gear AC+, Virtual On and REmake. For the latter 3 games you get a smaller square within a square. Looks awful. I'm wondering if the SEGA ports of Virtua Fighter 2, Sonic the Fighters, Fighting Vipers and Virtual Stirker also have this issue. They probably do.

Now with 360, I've had a couple of issues. The first being Guwange. Cant get a proper image in 4:3 in TATE. I select full screen mode or whatever and zooms way in and crops the image. It looks fucking horrible.

Finally for 360 I'm wondering what my options are for video cables are. Right now im using component video which looks great and im pretty satisfied with it but i'm still very much wondering how the 360 handles RGB. Does the 360 support progressive through RGB like the PS3?

Anybody have any experience with that?
 

Wachenroder

Giga Shock!!
I know i can get a SCART cable but i'm wondering if it supports 480p. Cant find any reliable information on it.

I looked for details on PS3 as well but most people said its 480i only over RGB and that it was component only for progressive. Since I already have a few Playstation SCART cables i figured i'd see for myself. Turns out its bullshit. PS3 totally supports 480p over RGB.

I'm wondering if 360 is the same. I'd try it myself but i dont have a 360 SCART cable and dont really want one unless it can do progressive.
 

DanAdamKOF

Kyo's Flame
Regarding 4:3 stuff on PS3 (and I think 360, don't use mine often tbh) you can change video settings to output in 480i/480p in 16:9 mode, which is anamorphic (squished). Setting 16:9 mode on your display draws the 480 lines of the signal in the center so that it's at 16:9 proportions and a fair bit sharper looking since every line is drawn in a smaller area. It would help for games that don't give you an option to output full height at 4:3 whether drawn stretched (ie should be treated as anamorphic, which I guess you don't need to tell the console to be anamorphic if the game does this regardless) or letterboxed with only the middle lines of the signal used to display (MVC3 comes to mind, looks a lot less sharp when letterboxed for 4:3).
 

Wachenroder

Giga Shock!!
oh damn thats interesting. So for games like REmake i can set it to 16:9 then in the game settings set it to 4:3?

but wait since for ps3 im using scart cables, is it even possible to change the aspect ratio to 16:9? I'm sure i can do it with component but i'm not sure about RGB scart.

i'll have to give that a try.
 

SpamYouToDeath

I asked for a, Custom Rank and, Learned My Lesson.
360 gives you the most video options when you plug in a VGA cable. You can do things like 854x480 16:9 (and then use the vertically-compressed mode on your CRT) for example.

Beware: they weren't thorough about testing games in HD 4:3 modes. The component cable settings force you into 16:9 if you pick 720p/1080i/1080p, but the VGA cable will let you do things like 1024x768 4:3. Some games work fine, others have issues with black-bars/stretching. Halo 3 works great, for example. Duke Nukem 3D has borders all the way around the picture - like it's pillarboxing the original game with artwork, then the system letterboxes that for output.
 

Wachenroder

Giga Shock!!
360 gives you the most video options when you plug in a VGA cable. You can do things like 854x480 16:9 (and then use the vertically-compressed mode on your CRT) for example.

Beware: they weren't thorough about testing games in HD 4:3 modes. The component cable settings force you into 16:9 if you pick 720p/1080i/1080p, but the VGA cable will let you do things like 1024x768 4:3. Some games work fine, others have issues with black-bars/stretching. Halo 3 works great, for example. Duke Nukem 3D has borders all the way around the picture - like it's pillarboxing the original game with artwork, then the system letterboxes that for output.

I'll be sticking to 480p for what im using it for but thats damn interesting that they even allow you to do that on console. Thats straight up PC type settings.

Leave it to MS to open up all kinds of crazy video options. Whelp i'm definitely ordering a VGA cable.

btw i still havent gotten an answer about Guwange. Is there a way to get that game from being all stupidly zoomed in?
 

Wachenroder

Giga Shock!!
so i placed an order on VGA cables, VGA to BNC RGBHV cables and some T connectors,

Here's the thing though....I've been told by a few people that the T connector will combine sync but im also hearing some conflicting reports on how stable/safe it is. I think Yodd said in the CRT Fetish thread way way back that it can damage components?

I'd be using these for Dreamcast and Xbox 360.

If T connectors arent a reliable solution, there a good Extron box or something like that anyway can recommend?

EDIT: I know about Beharbros stuff which is great but those aren't really on the table for me at the moment.
 
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Tripredacus

赤裸裸的汽車&#
Unfortunately some games dont work properly on 4:3. So far i've had issues with Dark Awake (borders on the sides and the picture looks sort of vertically stretched and im not sure if there is an option to fix it)

I call this "double pin-cushion" where you have a normal 4:3 pincushion and it adds an additional pincushion outside of that, but does not increase screen width. As a result, your viewable area is in less than 4:3. This happens because the source material, while apparently supporting or being able to render in 4:3 is actually a 16:9 image native with the pincushion as part of the image, rather than something configurable. I found this out when testing 4:3 Blurays, they are not 4:3 but actually 16:9.

On any CRT I have, there is no relative option like on a HDTV where you can do a zoom or whatever to scale the portion of the screen you want. So as a result, I concluded that sources that are 16:9 with 4:3 content are not suitable for use on a 4:3 display without some additional device in between to strip the unwanted portions of the signal. And I did not look into what that device is called or how much one would be.

At least with movies, it is possible to just use an older format that better fits the display you are trying to use. Not so much with games unfortunately.
 

fakeXsound

King of Typists
The Gwange issue is something that people were complaining about the day it came out. There's no workaround, AFAIK.
 

Wachenroder

Giga Shock!!
I call this "double pin-cushion" where you have a normal 4:3 pincushion and it adds an additional pincushion outside of that, but does not increase screen width. As a result, your viewable area is in less than 4:3. This happens because the source material, while apparently supporting or being able to render in 4:3 is actually a 16:9 image native with the pincushion as part of the image, rather than something configurable. I found this out when testing 4:3 Blurays, they are not 4:3 but actually 16:9.

On any CRT I have, there is no relative option like on a HDTV where you can do a zoom or whatever to scale the portion of the screen you want. So as a result, I concluded that sources that are 16:9 with 4:3 content are not suitable for use on a 4:3 display without some additional device in between to strip the unwanted portions of the signal. And I did not look into what that device is called or how much one would be.

At least with movies, it is possible to just use an older format that better fits the display you are trying to use. Not so much with games unfortunately.

Yeah for games like that i'll just play on hdtv or play a different version. For example i'm pefectly comfortable with Wii versions of REmake and RE0

I dont really care about GG AC+ that much since i can always play PS2 if i ever feel inclined to play in true 4:3

I am pretty disappointed on the SEGA arcade games though. Really wanted those to work properly :/

The Gwange issue is something that people were complaining about the day it came out. There's no workaround, AFAIK.

Dammit....alright i guess thats that then. Thanks
 

Wachenroder

Giga Shock!!
alright well i got a hold of some 360 vga cables. Decided to at least see what it looks like until i get a vga box.

i used a T connector but it doesnt seem to work. color is super washed out and what color exists is bleeding.

Bad solution indeed! I'll just wait till i can get a hold of an extron or something similar.
 

Bagheera369

Lazy SNK Employee
I run ps3 via component to Sony 36xbr800 crt and 360 that way too...both have looked amazing.
Ps3 is very picky about games doing full 4:3.....anything with "xxxx HD" in the title is out...no soulcalibur 2, not TekkenTag, nada....all the capcom stuff seems to work well, as stated. Tekken5 DR works great in 4:3 mode though.

360 is not to far off ps3....some great games run 4:3 with no issue...all the cave shmups for starters, but Raiden Legacy, and Raiden IV as well.

Wii, gamecube, ps2, and DC all look great at 480p 4:3, and have extensive support for it...so those are the other consoles I keep on that TV. At 36", even if it letterbars...its not terrible...but I try to save that stuff for the front tv.
 

ysselcneogeo

King's Dry Cleaner
I'm currently making a list of 4:3 native supported 360 games. Everything i've tested is with component however.

Bioshock
Dead or Alive 4
Devil May Cry 4
Gears of War ( only in gameplay I dont even think the menus were 4:3)
Halo 3
Kameo
Ninja Gaiden 2
Phantasy Star Universe
Quake 4
Tomb Raider Legend
Sonics Ultimate Collection
Virtua Fighter 5

Btw dont waste your time with a VGA cable. If you're not planning to go over 480p then its a waste plus theres all sorts of limitations to resolution support with CRT tv if you're going vga you're gonna want to use a VGA monitor instead as they've got way better supports for hd resolutions.
 
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fakeXsound

King of Typists
Surprised by the 360 VGA hate, unless you're talking about going into a tube monitor. I used an official MS one on my 16x10 monitor for years. I even emailed MS and asked for them to create a native 16x10 option, which they did. It looked amazing. Last year I bought a 16x9 1080p TV to replace my monitor, though.

Also, with my original 360 (non-slim), when I did have it on my tube TV via component, the color bleeding got really bad on later games. It started to get unplayable around the time Rainbow 6 Vegas came out. I couldn't even read the text.
 
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