OFFICIAL N-G.com Star Trek Thread

aria

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When does Worf come in on DS9?

Season 4 (after TNG ended). Don't skip 2-3 though because towards the end of 2 you've got the much larger story arc appearing.

Takes about a season for them get him going.
 

SonGohan

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I'm in the middle of season 2. No way I'm skipping. This show is too good. Could've done without the mental illusion woman episode, though. That one was pretty bad.
 

Zero Satori

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I feel like I need to give the true credit for this to our good friend Takumaji for posting this clip in Segata_Sanshiro's "None of this is real!" thread.



Truth be told, I ended-up watching it four times in a row, probably because I think I'm in-love with William Shatner, Leonard Nimoy, and DeForrest Kelley. Thank you, gentlemen; you're true heroes of the spacefaring dreams of the 1980s and inspirers of all who came after.
 

aria

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I'm in the middle of season 2. No way I'm skipping. This show is too good. Could've done without the mental illusion woman episode, though. That one was pretty bad.

Yeah, I personally thought the second season was overall very good.

Speaking if the lesser episodes in Season 2, since I assume you've already seen this episode: the original idea for DS9's science officer character was for her to be a wheelchair/low gravity person... but they realized it was be too expensive to have as a regular character and so they went with a Trill. Meanwhile they wanted to at least try the character idea so it became the Melora episode. They even gave the script duties to the one DS9 writer who was in a wheelchair but he admits his script wasn't very good and it went through heavy rewrites.
 

Segata_Sanshiro

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Trekkies 2 is now on Netflix.

You'd think Netflix would alert me to this junk.
 

SonGohan

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Yeah, I personally thought the second season was overall very good.

Speaking if the lesser episodes in Season 2, since I assume you've already seen this episode: the original idea for DS9's science officer character was for her to be a wheelchair/low gravity person... but they realized it was be too expensive to have as a regular character and so they went with a Trill. Meanwhile they wanted to at least try the character idea so it became the Melora episode. They even gave the script duties to the one DS9 writer who was in a wheelchair but he admits his script wasn't very good and it went through heavy rewrites.

That's pretty interesting. Looking back, that was a bit of an odd episode.

Just started season 4. Almost done with the first episode. Worf is way too depressed for my taste.
 

aria

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That's pretty interesting. Looking back, that was a bit of an odd episode.

Just started season 4. Almost done with the first episode. Worf is way too depressed for my taste.

I think I mentioned this earlier, but Worf takes about a season to really warm up and get going. For a while it's not clear what role he's going to play (I think that was partly intended).

Sounds like you zoomed through Season 2 & 3. How'd you like'em?
 

SonGohan

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The series definitely picked up. I really liked the O'Brien episode where he kept jumping 5 hours into the future. Right now I'm watching the one where Sisko keeps disappearing throughout Jake's life. I'm totally :~~~~( so far
 

SonGohan

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Okay, now that episode was like a really, really good movie. I'm very impressed.
 

aria

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Yeah, that episode (The Visitor) is one of the strongest in the series--The guest star playing old Jake really helped, even with the slight accent.

In addition the stuff about the father-son relationship really affected me after becoming a father.
 

aria

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When Sisko goes bald in Season 4, you know things are about to get badass.

Avery Brooks actually wanted to go with the Season 4 look at the beginning, but executives at the network were worried he'd look too much like his Hawk character in Spenser for Hire so his contract stipulated that he have hair for the first three seasons of production.

BTW: After a certain episode in Season 3, whenever I hear an official announcement I want to interject "Attention Bajoran Workers"

EDIT: I just realized the "root beer" speech between Quark and Garak happened at the beginning of season 4. It's one of my favorite little moments, it captures the subversive nature of DS9 compared to the other Treks.
 

SonGohan

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I can't wait to see what happens with the dominion. I can't believe how long it's taking to build up to it, though. Please tell me the Borg make an appearance at some point. I dig Sisko's new look. Kinda reminds me of Shaft in space. I'm not sure you can get much cooler than that.
 

aria

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I can't wait to see what happens with the dominion. I can't believe how long it's taking to build up to it, though. Please tell me the Borg make an appearance at some point. I dig Sisko's new look. Kinda reminds me of Shaft in space. I'm not sure you can get much cooler than that.

The Dominion are an ongoing story throughout the show, you've still haven't reached the point where more recurring characters appear and get established. This is where DS9 really starts to become more of a serial than any other Star Trek before (they tried it again in the final few seasons of Enterprise, but it was too late to get the audience back). You can thank Ronald D. Moore for that, and you can see his ideas for BattleStar Galactica start to develop on DS9.

From what I understand, they consciously avoided including the Borg in DS9--all the better because a complaint about Voyager is that the Borg became weak (that's the problem with an unstoppable force that can be regularly stopped for the same of keeping them in the storyline... that's why they only appeared on rare occasions on TNG). The ending of Voyager was just so dull.
 

Lagduf

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All the stuff with the Borg in Voyager was really, really, really, really dumb.

Especially 7 of 9.

I mean they introduced some neat concepts but going so Borg heavy really damaged the mystique of the Borg.
 

Rade K

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All the stuff with the Borg in Voyager was really, really, really, really dumb.

Especially 7 of 9.

I mean they introduced some neat concepts but going so Borg heavy really damaged the mystique of the Borg.

I was watching Sliders on Netflix and that show had the exact same thing happen to it. They killed off Max Arturo and replaced him with a large breasted woman. Well, at least 7/9's were real (I hope).

The show just took a total nosedive (not that it was amazing to begin with). They focused on the Cro-mags and the show just lost all of it's charm.
 

Lagduf

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A big part of using the Borg in Voyager, in my opinion, was probably so they could draw some parallels to TNG and introduce some established species and concepts from other Trek shows and try to draw Trek fans back in. I think it backfired and they just mucked up and species that had been really badass*

Voyager also sucked because the "trying to get home" concept didn't lend itself well for creating a consistent universe or strong narrative - It just can't work without some really strong writing. BSG did "trying to find Earth" pretty well.

Besides the fact that Voyager sucked anyway, I think it suffered a lot from Gilligan's Island syndrome where they would try some halfwit scheme to get them home and as a viewer you knew it wouldn't work. So it was like, what's the point in even watching this?

Voyager sucks.

*Badass until they were shit on in First Contact. LOL Borg Queen.

EDIT: We need a new Trek, set post-TNG that is serial in nature in its overall story. It can still be presented in an episodic fashion, but the that storyline still has to be there.
 

aria

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Love this new gif:

SP9Pu.jpg
 

Lagduf

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I considered voting Darmok and Jalad but decided to go with the incumbent Gilgamesh and Enkidu :emb:

That sign is so badass :buttrock:
 

rarehero

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A big part of using the Borg in Voyager, in my opinion, was probably so they could draw some parallels to TNG and introduce some established species and concepts from other Trek shows and try to draw Trek fans back in. I think it backfired and they just mucked up and species that had been really badass*

Voyager also sucked because the "trying to get home" concept didn't lend itself well for creating a consistent universe or strong narrative - It just can't work without some really strong writing. BSG did "trying to find Earth" pretty well.

Besides the fact that Voyager sucked anyway, I think it suffered a lot from Gilligan's Island syndrome where they would try some halfwit scheme to get them home and as a viewer you knew it wouldn't work. So it was like, what's the point in even watching this?

Voyager sucks.

*Badass until they were shit on in First Contact. LOL Borg Queen.

EDIT: We need a new Trek, set post-TNG that is serial in nature in its overall story. It can still be presented in an episodic fashion, but the that storyline still has to be there.

The only character I could stand was the holographic doctor.
7 of 9's purpose on the show was obvious.
The native american second in command was lame.
I thought Tuvok was boring and not at all interesting like a vulcan could potentially be.
The alien bar guy was just annoying.
I think I forced myself to watch it since it was the only thing on late nights.
 

SonGohan

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The Dominion are an ongoing story throughout the show, you've still haven't reached the point where more recurring characters appear and get established. This is where DS9 really starts to become more of a serial than any other Star Trek before (they tried it again in the final few seasons of Enterprise, but it was too late to get the audience back). You can thank Ronald D. Moore for that, and you can see his ideas for BattleStar Galactica start to develop on DS9.

From what I understand, they consciously avoided including the Borg in DS9--all the better because a complaint about Voyager is that the Borg became weak (that's the problem with an unstoppable force that can be regularly stopped for the same of keeping them in the storyline... that's why they only appeared on rare occasions on TNG). The ending of Voyager was just so dull.

I see. I'm almost done with season 4. So far, I'm not sure what to make of the dominion. I mean, they infiltrated Earth, but haven't really attacked, unless I misunderstood the bomb going off at the assembly as the admiral's doing (so he could take control of Earth).
 

aria

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I see. I'm almost done with season 4. So far, I'm not sure what to make of the dominion. I mean, they infiltrated Earth, but haven't really attacked, unless I misunderstood the bomb going off at the assembly as the admiral's doing (so he could take control of Earth).

This will explain it better (I took out potential spoilers):

At the end of season 3, the writers had planned on doing a 'Changelings on Earth' storyline, which would end on a cliff-hanger. However, Paramount said that they didn't want a cliff-hanger ending, forcing the writers to go in a different direction. This not only necessitated a rethinking of the end of the third season, but also a rethinking of the opening of the fourth. Producers were also under a mandate to do 'something' to shake up the series. As such, they decided to bring the Klingons onto the show, with Rick Berman suggesting that they also bring in Worf. Obviously however, the Klingon conflict was not initially a part of the master-plan for season 4, and many fans thus feel that this season is basically just an interlude in anticipation of the writers getting back to the Dominion arc. This is supported by Ira Steven Behr who says "We only recovered our equilibrium in the middle of the fifth season following another meeting with the studio [spoiler omitted]. While I like having brought Worf onto the show, and I love some of the things that he brought along, I think it had a fairly substantial impact that wasn't all for the good. It took us way off from where we'd intended to go and it was slow going getting back." Behr has also commented, "It was not the direction we thought the show was going. We thought we were going to get into this whole Dominion thing, and we suddenly had to begin this problem with the Klingons, which I think was exciting for the audience, but took a lot of thought as to how it was all going to link up."​

I kind of like the action-oriented nature of the Paramount move, and they do eventually harmonize the two storylines and get back to the bigger picture regarding the Dominion. But yeah, that's why you feel the way to do watching it. I mentioned earlier it takes about a season for the writers to really get a grip on Worf, but then he works well and more characters are introduced.
 

T.A.P.

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I started watching Deep Space Nine last week, and even the apparently 'bad' first season has been pretty enjoyable, with a few really great episodes like Duet knocking it out of the park.

I'm about 8 episodes into season 2 now.
 
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