Like Macross? Hate Harmony Gold? You gonna *love* THIS!

Taiso

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that's because I didn't. and it still doesnt explain why they renewed....
Your response is Saner tier.

If you ask for an answer and it is given, listen to the answer.

Tatsunoko and HG renewed because they could. It's a low effort contract backed up by the law that only makes them money. And rather than renegotiate new terms with a new company, they can just extend an existing contract that cashes in on nostalgia.

There has been a slew of new Robotech products over the course of the last couple of years, mostly from Japanime Games. These licensed products were probably produced to prove to Tatsunoko that the contract could continue to be lucrative and, thus, in their best interest to extend it.
 

NeoSneth

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Your response is Saner tier.

If you ask for an answer and it is given, listen to the answer.

Tatsunoko and HG renewed because they could. It's a low effort contract backed up by the law that only makes them money. And rather than renegotiate new terms with a new company, they can just extend an existing contract that cashes in on nostalgia.

There has been a slew of new Robotech products over the course of the last couple of years, mostly from Japanime Games. These licensed products were probably produced to prove to Tatsunoko that the contract could continue to be lucrative and, thus, in their best interest to extend it.

i don't know if i would consider an agreement with a known IP troll to be low effort. Nor does this relationship seem that lucrative.
 

Mouse_Master

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While Robotech is OK and the original Robotech story line was at least interesting, and I am talking about the path continuing past the original run, Harmony Gold is still crap.

Promise promise promise. Fail, lie, sue.......

The Sentinels comic was great, it got decently far, had a good publisher. What did they do? Rip the rights away to another distributor, and that distrib did NOT finish the comic. All new crap comics.....

Shadow Chronicles was a joke. So much hype and very little delivery. I can not even remember much of the movie. I remember more of The End of the Circle novel which I read in the mid 90s, and all of the has been removed from the current continuity. I disagree with not following what Macek laid out, especially in the spectacularly poor response to what HG made.

Some cool toy releases, but limited. I always wanted an Alpha Beta, but not playing the HG pre order game.

Palladium did an excellent job with the original RPG, excellent world build. The redo? Laughable. Then the kickstarter mess. Played the RPG in the Mospeada era some, game was closer to being like Mad Max with Robotech mecha and enemies from what I recall us doing.

Macross Plus! I watched Macross Plus VHS tape release by tape release at college. The music at the end of each of the first 3 volumes was the music of doom meaning a cliff hanger was coming, and a few months wait. I enjoyed Macross Plus. It would be hard for me to compare it to anything now as I have not re-watched it since. The series has really good music from what I recall.

I also watched the DYRL dub in college as well. I think someone had the Japanese LD IIRC, I don't think I ever watched the VHS tape posted earlier of the edited version.

I vaguely remember seeing a Macross II dub, but I don't remember much at all.

Ancient history.....

Of course there is also the mess with the original Robotech Movie (Megazone 23....) as well as the start of the Sentinels sequel series....
 

Taiso

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i don't know if i would consider an agreement with a known IP troll to be low effort. Nor does this relationship seem that lucrative.
Then you don't really know how these things work.

Or you do and you're doubling down anyway.

It's profitable because it's not costing Tatsunoko anything to take HG's distribution rights payola. And HG is getting money from those that want to make Robotech products (currently board games, card games and the SMG RPG and Savage Worlds source books.)

This recent proliference of Robotech products so close to the Tatsunoko re-up was not a coincidence.

Companies pay licensing fees to HG to make Robotech merchandise.

HG also gets a royalty, of sorts, for units sold.

Companies must be able to make enough to justify renewing the license every X years. (Whatever the agreed upon terms are. By way of example, Palladium lost the license because the miniatures game was such a colossal failure that it actually cost them money. The profits they would have made from a successful campaign would have earned them the money to renew the license.

HG pays Tatsunoko for the global distribution rights for anything Macross. They can afford this because of the licensing money they made from other companies. The contract wasn't, to my understanding, contingent on a 'per year' profitability.

When the terms were set to expire recently, Tatsunoko had to make a decision. Let it expire and get in bed with Big West and have to broker an all new deal that most certainly wasn't going to gain them anything, maybe even cost them in distribution, production and other fees since there was no way BW was going to give them the same sweetheart deal HG was giving them. ESPECIALLY considering BW will probably want to make new series to revitalize the IP.

OR just reup with HG with the current deal and receive money for a song and not have to share anything with Big West.

Big West's deal with HG may or may not involve Tatsunoko. Or it may. I don't know. But even if the Tatsunoko profits of Macross through this new deal with BW are a windfall of increased interest in Robotech, they still win.

The only ones getting screwed here are Big West, ad they are most certainly going to have to share profits with HG, some of which will go to Tatsunoko.
 
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NeoSneth

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(currently board games, card games and the SMG RPG and Savage Worlds source books.)
This is some of the worst revenue streams for an IP. While it is lucrative in that it exists, it's pennies compared to other potential revenue . RPG books sell in the dozens to low hundreds, and the boardgames have been a disaster harming the IP even further.

The only people who give a shit about Marcross or Robotech are now approaching 50+ years old because it's been completely nonexistent for decades.
 

Taiso

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I don't know what the licensing fees actually are but it's clearly enough that Tatsunoko would rather not risk losing the power set by the precedent of their victory in court. Their hands are on the levers and if they let them go, it's a chance that they lose their grip forever

The only real NEW money to be made on Macross now would be on an all new plamo line and video streaming licensing deals. Regarding model kits, the numbers of sales of non Bandai plamo probably wouldn't justify taking a chance on it, given Bandai's dominance of the market. Most of the Macross mecha doesn't look that great, tbh.

So Tatsunoko can either gamble on the future and end up negotiating new terms with Big West in the hope of a revitalized IP (and that's even if Big West HAS to work with Tatsunoko in any way if the HG deal were to expire), or just be content to continue benefitting from a cooperative parasitic partnership with HG and extend the life of a contract that should never have been held up in court.
 

fakeXsound

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Well...I found a good deal and ponied up. Got the Animeigo box set sealed for the going price of an open good condition one.
 

Stefan

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The only people who give a shit about Marcross or Robotech are now approaching 50+ years old because it's been completely nonexistent for decades.
Nonexistent presence? Hardly. The American fanbase alone has gotten far more diverse and robust than you realize. Robotech fandom in the USA might have been a sausage fest in the late 1980s, but as is the case with many legacy anime franchises' exposure through Internet availability, the demographics since then have broadened substantially. Heck, I personally know a dozen women in NY state, the Los Angeles region, & Jersey, all no older than 35, whom are serious fans of Macross Plus & Frontier's characters, soundtracks, artbooks, & related media. Several of them have even recreated & cosplayed fashion designs from both series. Quite frankly, all but two of them didn't "grow up" w/ Robotech, avoided the crappy DVD boxsets, or simply bypassed it altogether with the advent of digital fansubs after 2002-ish. One even builds and paints modern & vintage Macross mecha model kits live on Twitch in her spare time.

Insofar as recent offerings in said franchise, the Delta tv show first aired in 2016, with a theatrical spinoff film premiering two years later, in addition to a forthcoming movie set for release in Japan later this year.
 
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NeoSneth

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Nonexistent presence? Hardly. The American fanbase alone has gotten far more diverse and robust than you realize. Robotech fandom in the USA might have been a sausage fest in the late 1980s, but as is the case with many legacy anime franchises' exposure through Internet availability, the demographics since then have broadened substantially. Heck, I personally know a dozen women in NY state, the Los Angeles region, & Jersey, all no older than 35, whom are serious fans of Macross Plus & Frontier's characters, soundtracks, artbooks, & related media. Several of them have even recreated & cosplayed fashion designs from both series. Quite frankly, all but two of them didn't "grow up" w/ Robotech, avoided the crappy DVD boxsets, or simply bypassed it altogether with the advent of digital fansubs after 2002-ish. One even builds and paints modern & vintage Macross mecha model kits live on Twitch in her spare time.

Insofar as recent offerings in said franchise, the Delta tv show first aired in 2016, with a theatrical spinoff film premiering two years later, in addition to a forthcoming movie set for release in Japan later this year.

Those sound like offspring of Robotech fans. There's nothing to get new people into the IP.
 

fakeXsound

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I don't get that reference. And that is why I need a neo-geo.com/forums hero to go into detail about these two franchises.
Aye - I just didn't have time to type this all out last night. Here's how I'd describe it...

In terms of themes:
Gundam 0079 set the bar for mecha anime. It was adult, political, emotional, etc. You kept watching for the action and the drama. Macross puts a more fun spin on it. There's far less politics and far more threads about love interests, though there's still plenty of death and touching on the topic of how war wears you down and takes everything away from you. There's also more of a focus on music, as one of the main character's love interests becomes a pop idol.

In terms of action:
It was exciting to see transforming mechas. Gundam didn't have this until several years later with Zeta Gundam, and even then, it was kind of just tacked onto the main mobile suit. The Valkyries have three modes: one is like a jet fighter, one is like a humanoid, and on is a mix between the two. This meant that the fights and action sequences could be more varied.

In terms of story:
Earth is being attacked by aliens and a small slice of civilization escapes on this city-sized transforming robot / space station. They're chased throughout the solar system by the Zendrati, who are big green giants. Eventually it's revealed that the Protoculture, the original intelligent lifeforms in the galaxy, seeded life of both humans and Zendrati. They're trying to wipe each other out of existence, but they're essentially space brothers.

Gundam 0079 and Macross are apples and oranges to some extent. But I think Macross one-upped 0079 in certain areas, which is impressive obviously. And then Zeta Gundam obviously was a huge step forward relative to both, and is till the high water mark of real robot anime, with Eva being the only quasi-competitor, though it's so love-it-or-hate-it that I kinda don't like comparing them.
 

LoneSage

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That was very thoughtful and kind of you, but I wanted Macross and Robotech explained. Now I am off to wiki to understand.
 

HornheaDD

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I kind of want someone to explain Robotech and Macross to me.
SDF Macross: The OG.
Robotech: Took 99% of Macross, and two other unrelated series, mashed them together and created one "cohesive" (lolz) story to satisfy syndication requirements (86 episodes for an American cartoon series). Growing up I was a massive Robotech fan, and I guess I still am.

But honestly, I'm more of a fan now because of the now de-canonized Jack McKinney novels.

In the grand scheme of things, SDF Macross is top tier. Robotech is essentially trash compared to it, but I still like Robotech because of the childhood memories/toys, etc.
 

fakeXsound

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Oh the white man took Macross and two other shows and created Robotech out of them by splicing them together.
 

Taiso

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Oh the white man took Macross and two other shows and created Robotech out of them by splicing them together.
It was just another show being imported to Western shores.

What made Macross special in this regard was that it was NEW when HG got the western distribution rights for it. The series hadn't been around a decade. They even released the first three episodes in a VHS format. Comico,, the Robotech comic publisher at that time, even released the first issue of the comic as Macross, assuming that the long term agenda was just to release it as Macross. I have that issue and clearly remember the ad to order the VHS tape on its last page.

But the investment for the license couldn't realistically be recouped with such limited distribution. So it became a money game and once they found out what they had to do in order to get it into syndication, they bought the rights for Southern Cross and Mospeada, changed big parts of the narrative and turned it into one larger storyline. Needed 65 episodes to get syndication, which is where the big money was back then, and that ultimately made them the money to justify the licensing fees.

The part about this story that always frustrates me is that it gets ignored that business got in the way of their initial intentions. Maybe Macross would have been better off in the long run had it all just died out in the west in 1985 but you have to weigh that against the benefit of the generation of anime fans that came to be because of it. Mileage will vary
 

fakeXsound

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Terrible sequels used to bother me, and I would feel like they ruined the legacy of the series, but at this point I can't be bothered. We've got the original Macross, and Macross Plus as an OK cherry on top. And really that's all I need. I can watch the series and then lay off it until the details fade, and then I can rewatch it.

BUT, if there was some sort of evolution that could've taken place, (e.g., 0079 to Zeta), and we didn't get that because of the botched licensing, that would kinda blow.
 

Taiso

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I'd agree that it's botched in that HG clearly didn't understand the challenge of getting air time for the show on western shores. No doubt.

But suits only cate about red and black. Carl Macek was never a suit. Dude died with a closet full of Macross plunder.
 

wataru330

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I love the Jack McKinney books.

His (their, actually; it was two authors) series and one shots not connected to Robotech are ace!

-Kaduna Memories (one shot)
-Black Hole Travel Agency (four novel series)
 

fakeXsound

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What I'd love to pick up one day is the gold and silver Macross: The Movie art book. Unless you guys know of anything more definitive.
 

Taiso

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That book is your best bet if you want 'definitive' but it's pretty steep at 200-250 USD.

Macross Perfect Memory might be a good alternative, and is a damn fine book in it's own right. I own that one and it's quite satisfying.
 

HornheaDD

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I love the Jack McKinney books.

His (their, actually; it was two authors) series and one shots not connected to Robotech are ace!

-Kaduna Memories (one shot)
-Black Hole Travel Agency (four novel series)
Hell yeah man. Ive got all the Robotech books, used to have the individual novels but my mom burned them (dumb story) so I ended up buying the ones that had the 3 books in 1. Still have the original End of the Circle and Zentradi books.

I actually have Kaduna Memories on paperback. Don't have the Black Hole Travel Agency books tho.
 
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