Have you met Americans who admit they're poor?

[Setherial]

I think that is an completely unfair statement and a horribly inaccurate view of the current situation in the US...

This has nothing to do with ignorance, it has to do with complete lack of choice.

When you are on the job market and have 10 prospective jobs (that's a stretch BTW)...2 may offer 1 week vacation and the other 8 will offer 0. This isn't ignorance, this is us getting fucked over. It's not like we dumb Americans could get 4 weeks paid vacation if we just asked for it.

The job market in America is a critical levels and getting worse by the day. You have upper level employees that for the most part, get great wages, benefits and job security...then there's everyone else. "Everyone else" means salary positions, shit retirement, extremely long work weeks and often, zero job security. If you are not in the upper level but have managed to be around long enough to get more than base pay...you're really in trouble. More than likely the company will let you go and replace you with some kid college grad that will work for base salary.

This action shifts necessary work duties to the remaining seasoned workers due to the fact that the kid is unskilled. This process goes on and on. If anyone actually requests more pay or better benefits, they're at a minimum denied, at maximum, let go.

This current environment of mass-unskilled, minimum-skilled is producing shit product. Those that can produce are extremely overworked and that creates even more mistakes.

I understand there are places that are an exception to this...but most places aren't. The American job market is,for the most part, complete shit.

I'm no blind liberal...but to deny that there isn't a MASSIVE wealth distribution problem in the US is to be ignorant. With worker's pay/benefits being eroded piece while upper level execs continue to make more and more...this is only going to get worse.

Is this nationwide or does it differ from state to state?

 

[joe8]

It seems they all say they're middle class.

A lot of people in Western countries think they're poor. But they only have to travel a little, and they'll see that they're not poor. "Poor" is a relative term.

 

[Kristian Meller]

Poor is relative to the country in which you live. There will always be even poorer people somewhere in Africa, but that doesn't mean you can't be poor in the US, the UK or Denmark.

 

[smokehouse]

Is this nationwide or does it differ from state to state?

Give or take, yes. Like I said earlier, there are exceptions to the rule but this is the current US working environment. Of people in my personal life, who are all pretty accomplished individuals, not one of them gets to take a 100% "vacation"...all will still have to work off and on, even when "off"...I'm one of them.

Poor is relative to the country in which you live. There will always be even poorer people somewhere in Africa, but that doesn't mean you can't be poor in the US, the UK or Denmark.

This.

You're the "poor kid" if you parents bring in $300K/yr and you live in a place where everyone is a $1M+/yr earner.

America still has opportunity...be it slim and rare. You can always get health care, food, and we're all relatively safe (or extremely safe, depending on where you live). Compared to the poor in other countries, America isn't all that bad.

 

[Kristian Meller]

You're the "poor kid" if you parents bring in $300K/yr and you live in a place where everyone is a $1M+/yr earner.

Not what I meant at all.

 

[GregN]

In MN, 100k/yr is ballin'. We actually get to experience a change in season, with snow in winter, and falling leaves during the fall. That being said, we have to endure shoveling snow and 3 hour commutes to and from work in bad weather.

That's not to say CA doesn't have extreme weather, with droughts, earthquakes, etc.

Things are more expensive in the US than other countries

 

[smokehouse]

Not what I meant at all.

Ok...

Care to explain then?

I take "Poor is relative to the country in which you live" as the poorest of country X, may be wealthy in country Y. So I mentioned that in the second part of my post.

I added the other part because I'e actually heard Americans claim being the "poor kid" when their parents make more than most of the populous.

 

[Undefined]

Because of my job I am around extremely wealthy people all the time who make me feel poor even though I make a pretty decent salary.

 

[o.pwuaioc]

I would never call someone who makes $300k in a neighborhood where everyone makes $1M poor. They're just not as rich. Even saying they're "poorer" than others is insulting to actual poor people.

For me, and many social scientists, poverty is the difficulty to make basic ends meet. There are thousands of families in the US that would go hungry were it not for food stamps. That's poor. It might not be as poor as some kid in Djibouti with a distended abdomen, but it by no means should be considered "middle class" or anything like that.

 

[FilthyRear]

For me, and many social scientists, poverty is the difficulty to make basic ends meet. T

Today I learned that I live in poverty.

 

[o.pwuaioc]

Not by choice, mind you. You hiding away any AES games in there? You could sell those for food.

 

[smokehouse]

I would never call someone who makes $300k in a neighborhood where everyone makes $1M poor. They're just not as rich. Even saying they're "poorer" than others is insulting to actual poor people.

For me, and many social scientists, poverty is the difficulty to make basic ends meet. There are thousands of families in the US that would go hungry were it not for food stamps. That's poor. It might not be as poor as some kid in Djibouti with a distended abdomen, but it by no means should be considered "middle class" or anything like that.

It's all relative though...

My wife's husband was the "poor" kid in an extremely wealthy are outside Boston...and I mean extreme wealth. Listening to him talk about how he was raised by parents that brought in less than $1M/yr, you'd think he had to walk miles of mud roads in cardboard shoes to get to school.

He's still bent out of shape that he not quite at the $1m/yr mark, my sister fills me in all of the time.

 

[Kristian Meller]

Ok...

Care to explain then?

I take "Poor is relative to the country in which you live" as the poorest of country X, may be wealthy in country Y. So I mentioned that in the second part of my post.

I added the other part because I'e actually heard Americans claim being the "poor kid" when their parents make more than most of the populous.

Your example is terrible. But we probably agree anyway.

 

[Kristian Meller]

For me, and many social scientists, poverty is the difficulty to make basic ends meet. There are thousands of families in the US that would go hungry were it not for food stamps. That's poor. It might not be as poor as some kid in Djibouti with a distended abdomen, but it by no means should be considered "middle class" or anything like that.

Exactly. More like millions of families, though.

 

[norton9478]

Implying they will actually get jobs here and not just leech of our social system. A lot of those people don't have a proper education.
A lot of them are not fleeing because of war but for economic reasons, especially those from the balkans.

Didn't your country essentially say the same thing about East Germany?

Why wouldn't they work? Employment for people from the Middle East here is really high. These are middle class people who had houses with running water and normal jobs, why wouldn't they look for jobs here?

Because they are brown... Dummy.

A lot of people in Western countries think they're poor. But they only have to travel a little, and they'll see that they're not poor. "Poor" is a relative term.

No Poor is Poor. Just because you aren't destitute does not mean you aren't poor.

 

[FilthyRear]

My wife's husband...

..you mean you?

...was the "poor" kid in an extremely wealthy are outside Boston...and I mean extreme wealth. Listening to him talk about how he was raised by parents that brought in less than $1M/yr, you'd think he had to walk miles of mud roads in cardboard shoes to get to school.

He's still bent out of shape that he not quite at the $1m/yr mark, my sister fills me in all of the time.

Do you remember whereabouts? There's very affluent areas, but nothing "extreme". Inside of the city is a different story - brownstones in the Back Bay are worth millions and they look like shit.

 

[smokehouse]

..you mean you?



Do you remember whereabouts? There's very affluent areas, but nothing "extreme". Inside of the city is a different story - brownstones in the Back Bay are worth millions and they look like shit.

Whoops...typo, my sister's husband...sorry...


He grew up in/lives in Hingham. lots of "quiet money" there. People aren't overly flashy...yet all attend ivy league schools, have "vacation homes", belong to bat shit crazy expensive country clubs...constantly talk of politicians/wealthy/famous people they know...

 

[lithy]

Haha, my wife's husband.

Awesome.

 

[neo_mao]

You can determine how rich someone is by how fat they are.

I'm upper-middle class.

 

[smokehouse]

You can determine how rich someone is by how fat they are.

I'm upper-middle class.

There seems to be an odd weight/wealth division line.

Very poor? Fat, often super fat. When it comes to very cheap food, the calorie/dollar amount is very high. Mostly bad, empty calories, but it will make you fat fast.

Very wealthy? It's 50/50. You get the "I'm so rich that I don't give a shit and eat like a pig" fat business man, and his "I live at the gym" trophy wife. Sometimes you'll see the rich guy, workout freak. The Ferrari driving, open face button up shirt with a spray tan, shaved chest millionaire...

 

[FilthyRear]

The Ferrari driving, open face button up shirt with a spray tan, shaved chest millionaire...

Edit: TWICE in one fucking day this guy gets mentioned....

 

[Kiel]

Good god that is such a fucking Bobak shirt

 

[andsuchisdeath]

Because they are brown... Dummy.

What does brown mean?

 

[snes_collector]

Is this nationwide or does it differ from state to state?

It is a problem everywhere in the US it seems across all careers. But it isn't like recent college grads are taking all the jobs, recent college grads take up 40% of the unemployed in the U.S. Here is a great article about what this generation (my generation) is currently going through in the United States: http://www.newsweek.com/2015/06/05/millennial-college-graduates-young-educated-jobless-335821.html I've been on the hunt all year and haven't found a new job where I can actually use my education, and many/most of my classmates are in the same position.

 

[smokehouse]

It is a problem everywhere in the US it seems across all careers. But it isn't like recent college grads are taking all the jobs, recent college grads take up 40% of the unemployed in the U.S. Here is a great article about what this generation (my generation) is currently going through in the United States: http://www.newsweek.com/2015/06/05/millennial-college-graduates-young-educated-jobless-335821.html I've been on the hunt all year and haven't found a new job where I can actually use my education, and many/most of my classmates are in the same position.

I will say that we really are getting close to some dangerous stuff in the US workplace...

Diminishing benefits, stagnant wages, the ever growing cost of higher education...people are dropping big $$ for a degree only to hit a dead job market. If they do get a job, it is often a low pay with no real benefits.

Being a Union Electrician...I often preach our path. 3 year apprenticeship, 3 years of classes (480 hrs class time, 4800 hrs field time) that are credited college credits. If you take a few classes after you graduate the apprenticeship, you actually get an associates degree.

Current Journeyman scale for our side is $29/hr + insurance + $6/hr into a pension. The $29/hr is take home pay, insurance and retirements is on top. A first year makes $14.50 and gets raises on hours worked.

Now...no sick days, no holidays, no vacation...if you aren't turning screws you do not get paid. On top of that, I tell all of the cubs that being a commercial electrician is like being a stripper, it is good $$ as long as you body holds out. There are no 55 year old field guys...or at least very few. You'd better have a plan B.

Long story short...class is free (save book, which is about $1500 over the 3 years) and you work while you're an apprentice. A 19 year old kid can be a journeyman at 22 and making over $50K/yr + benefits.

It's not perfect...but it's often better than going to college. Hell, I've taught apprenticeship classes for 5 years now (just stated my 6th), I've had 4 guys with 4-year degrees go through my class.