Grounds for negative feedback

wyo

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Please could someone clarify how far a transaction should progress before feedback is warranted.

Does a complete transaction have to take place? In other words...
1. Member A lists an item for sale,
2. Member B PMs Member A expressing interested in said item,
3. Payment terms are agreed upon by both parties,
4. Member B pays member A,
5. Member A ships the item to member B,
6. Member B receives the item.

At what point is it appropriate to leave negative feedback if the deal falls apart or someone is unhappy and wants to warn others? Obviously, if one member expresses interest but they can't agree on terms, that's not a feedback worthy event. But which of the above is it (3, 4, 5, or 6)?

Hardly anyone seems to leave negative feedback, which I find ironic when considering the general contentiousness here. Is it due to fear of reprisals? The feedback system is an important way to reduce scams and shadiness. At present, it is not being used effectively (Exhibit A)
 

HMG

H = Heinously, M = Massive, G = Gonad,
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Immediately after payment has been made, feedback can be issued at any time.
 

shadowkn55

Genbu's Turtle Keeper
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I'd say anything 3 and after. Expressing interest doesn't mean the potential buyer has committed to a purchase. If you want specific scenarios at each step where I would consider negative feedback a possibility, read on:

3. If payment terms are reneged on by either side. This usually follows under the time wasting clause but it serves as a good warning to others when dealer with either side.

4. If member A doesn't ship the item of interest. This one is a no-brainer.

5. If the buyer opts out of any sort of tracking/insurance and the package gets lost or damaged. This recuses the seller of any responsibility. However, the seller should mandate that one of them be part of the shipping costs. If the seller is just being cheap and forgoes tracking (i.e. gives prices in shipped), then the seller becomes the responsible party.

6. If the item purchased doesn't come as described or working. The seller needs to own up and either offer a refund (full or partial) or a replacement.
 

mjmjr25

Critical Damage!,
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Immediately after payment has been made, feedback can be issued at any time.

Not by the buyer for sure and not advised for the seller in most cases. Once you leave feedback you are concluding the transaction. So if I send you money for a game - you are going to immediately leave me pos. feedback? What if I claim you scammed me a week later - what if I hassle you for a tracking number 10 minutes after I send payment? What if I send payment for your $50 shipped item and then tell you quadruple box it (which will add to the weight and I as buyer haven't paid for).

There is no cut and dried answer - it is over when one of the parties feels it is over and has an opinion of it being a positive or negative experience. I generally wait until the buyer has confirmed receipt of and tested the items.
 

K-2

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I'm of a mind that feedback should be exchanged after items have been received and and the "all ok"given either by PM between Buyer and Seller, or by the Buyer sending positive feedback to Seller upon receipt of item then the Seller knows the Buyer is satisfied and then the Seller can complete the transaction by submitting feedback for the Buyer.

One thing that could be shored up is having agreed upon time frames for stages of the deal. I work as a Realtor and it is an imperative that time is of the essence in all transactions. These stages most of us on the forum follow now by common sense, but to my mind they are: the Offer Period - Purchase and Sale - Delivery of Item - and lastly the Closing.

With real estate this process takes place generally over the course of six weeks. For the majority of small items we deal in on N-G.com, these steps should be done in about 7 business days.
 
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Kid Panda

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Not by the buyer for sure and not advised for the seller in most cases. Once you leave feedback you are concluding the transaction. So if I send you money for a game - you are going to immediately leave me pos. feedback? What if I claim you scammed me a week later - what if I hassle you for a tracking number 10 minutes after I send payment? What if I send payment for your $50 shipped item and then tell you quadruple box it (which will add to the weight and I as buyer haven't paid for).

There is no cut and dried answer - it is over when one of the parties feels it is over and has an opinion of it being a positive or negative experience. I generally wait until the buyer has confirmed receipt of and tested the items.

I'm of a mind that feedback should be exchanged after items have been received and and the "all ok"given either by PM between Buyer and Seller, or by the Buyer sending positive feedback to Seller upon receipt of item then the Seller knows the Buyer is satisfied and then the Seller can complete the transaction by submitting feedback for the Buyer.

One thing that could be shored up is having agreed upon time frames for stages of the deal. I work as a Realtor and it is an imperative that time is of the essence in all transactions. These stages most of us on the forum follow now by common sense, but to my mind they are: the Offer Period - Purchase and Sale - Delivery of Item - and lastly the Closing.

With real estate this process takes place generally over the course of six weeks. For the majority of small items we deal in here these steps should be done in about 7 business days.

Pretty much both of these answers.
 

wyo

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What prompted this is I had a buyer agree to a deal, short-change me on payment, and then try to renegotiate an additional discount. I refunded him in full and left neutral feedback, which is probably generous but at least there's a record of his shenanigans. I hope this is OK.
 

bustedstr8

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People should get a neg for backing out of agreed sales.

Way to many of the "Oh sorry my wife needed another round of anal bleaching...so I can't pay for the game this week." going on around here.
 

K-2

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I'd say you were right to so wyo_vr4. He essentially messed up the P&S. Money had traded hands, I think that is the crucial point when both parties are joined in a feedback engendering event. Any time wasting before that point, like say during the "offer" period, does not trip that feedback wire so to speak.

If I had a nickel for every person that said they were going to buy a house or "my agent will submit an off to purchase later today" I'd have a lot of nickels. That's life.
 
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StevenK

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What prompted this is I had a buyer agree to a deal, short-change me on payment, and then try to renegotiate an additional discount. I refunded him in full and left neutral feedback, which is probably generous but at least there's a record of his shenanigans. I hope this is OK.

That sounds fine in my opinion.

I agree more negative feedback should be given around here, but also people should be more accepting of people who have received it. One negative is pretty much the end of the road for a seller here so people are wary of ending someone here because they shipped slowly for instance. People need to know if someone is a slow shipper, but that doesn't mean they should be kicked off the site.

Within reason.

Which brings me to what I like most about this site - pretty much everything here runs on the principle of common sense. Sure there are rules but they're reasonably flexible for instances that deserve it. They're also satisfactorily harsh for fucknuts who need twatting over the head with them. It's kind of a kangaroo court - but look at kangaroos, they're doing great.
 

HMG

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Not by the buyer for sure and not advised for the seller in most cases. Once you leave feedback you are concluding the transaction. So if I send you money for a game - you are going to immediately leave me pos. feedback? What if I claim you scammed me a week later - what if I hassle you for a tracking number 10 minutes after I send payment? What if I send payment for your $50 shipped item and then tell you quadruple box it (which will add to the weight and I as buyer haven't paid for).

There is no cut and dried answer - it is over when one of the parties feels it is over and has an opinion of it being a positive or negative experience. I generally wait until the buyer has confirmed receipt of and tested the items.

You misunderstand me. I don't mean literally give feedback right after payment is made. I mean from the point of payment being made, it is now a transaction that can have feedback be attributed. If the guy doesn't mail the package, then you can leave feedback.
 

Fygee

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I would say after Step 3

Additionally, I would say if the seller requests items to be held, the buyer agrees, and the seller reneges without a legitimate reason and/or prompt communication, then negative or neutral feedback should be warranted as well.
 

Yodd

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What prompted this is I had a buyer agree to a deal, short-change me on payment, and then try to renegotiate an additional discount. I refunded him in full and left neutral feedback, which is probably generous but at least there's a record of his shenanigans. I hope this is OK.

That's what happens when you deal with zero feedback noobs.


When will you people learn?
 

wyo

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That's what happens when you deal with zero feedback noobs.

When will you people learn?

To be fair, most of the zero feedback noobs have been great to deal with and appreciative to get a shot. We've all got to start somewhere after all.
 

HDRchampion

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Anal bleaching is a good excuse but everything else is bullshit...What about people who dont leave feedback after you leave feedback?
 

mjmjr25

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Anal bleaching is a good excuse but everything else is bullshit...What about people who dont leave feedback after you leave feedback?

I think of it this way:

You can pm them and ask them to leave feedback, but keep in mind, perhaps the reason they didn't leave it was because it wasn't a positive transaction on their end, but not to the point they felt it warranted a negative (or neutral).

Also - since feedback amongst repeat trading partners doesn't go onto your BLUE total I think sometimes it isn't as important to people - if you think it may be that but want the feedback anyways, a polite PM will do the trick i'm sure.
 

CORY

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That baby thrower speaks the truth!
 

cdamm

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What prompted this is I had a buyer agree to a deal, short-change me on payment, and then try to renegotiate an additional discount. I refunded him in full and left neutral feedback, which is probably generous but at least there's a record of his shenanigans. I hope this is OK.


i left your buyer a little present on his visitor message board for you. hopefully more people will see it before giving him another chance and also getting fucked.
 

wyo

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i left your buyer a little present on his visitor message board for you. hopefully more people will see it before giving him another chance and also getting fucked.

LOL! Alternative feedback method :D
 

HDRchampion

Before you sell me something, ask how well my baby
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I think of it this way:

You can pm them and ask them to leave feedback, but keep in mind, perhaps the reason they didn't leave it was because it wasn't a positive transaction on their end, but not to the point they felt it warranted a negative (or neutral).

Also - since feedback amongst repeat trading partners doesn't go onto your BLUE total I think sometimes it isn't as important to people - if you think it may be that but want the feedback anyways, a polite PM will do the trick i'm sure.

Yeah i can see that but since i was the buyer & i paid right away i dont really see how there could have been an issue on my end. As soon as i receive the Naomi2 & netdimm i left feedback right away & thanked him. Couple days later i asked if he can leave feedback as i haven't receive it yet. I asked one more time a few days later & i gave up after that.

Are we allowed to do takeback feedbacks?
 

Kid Panda

The Chinese Kid
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Yeah i can see that but since i was the buyer & i paid right away i dont really see how there could have been an issue on my end. As soon as i receive the Naomi2 & netdimm i left feedback right away & thanked him. Couple days later i asked if he can leave feedback as i haven't receive it yet. I asked one more time a few days later & i gave up after that.

Are we allowed to do takeback feedbacks?

Some people just end up forgetting, or after a sale just disappear off the forum for a couple of months. If you think it's bad here you should see ebay lately. It seems the ONLY feedback left is negative :(
 
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