for anyone willing to help the SS3 enhancement

smkdan

Galford's Armourer
Joined
Dec 30, 2009
Posts
452
I am fixing the hit detection, here are some issues with it that I know of and know how to fix:

-hitboxes just aren't large enough for certain close moves. I just widened the hitbox and they connect properly, this one's no problem.
-certain animation frames make the character totally invincible. Attacks just whiff even though they pass right through the hitbox. The easy example I used to fix one was haohmaru close crouching B immediately followed by far crouching B, just hit B a bunch when you're up close. The second one misses entirely. I just changed a byte in the hitbox and it connects properly.

These are easy fixes but there's probably a whole lot of hit detection flaws I don't have down yet, but these two are major ones.

What would be cool is if people just posted or playtested the original and recorded all the hit detection quirks they find so I can easily reproduce them myself. A big list of messed up situations that I can reproduce at my end and patch up accordingly would be very useful. It's horrifyingly monotonous and tedious to do all those character x character match ups, trying everything out and seeing what the violating moves on certain characters are. I play the game plenty but never noted this sort of stuff down, didn't have a practical use for this info until now..
 
Last edited:

BIG BEAR

SHOCKbox Developer,
20 Year Member
Joined
Dec 14, 2001
Posts
7,937
How about VS generic fatalities in single player mode? It has always bothered me that the CPU is not permitted to split you,the human opponent in half or spurt blood in the finale of the match. The Human opponent can perform generic fatalities to CPU opponent but not vice versa,why was this case?
I contacted Razoola about this being a possible update in the uni-bios sometime ago but .....?
BB
 

Xionicist

NEST Puppet
Joined
Aug 28, 2009
Posts
170
I play III a lot on the six slot, probably more than the other five in there. I'll start noting any interactions for you. Thanks for getting a project like this going.
 

Deuce

Death Before Dishonesty, Logic Above All,
Joined
Feb 13, 2002
Posts
7,454
Basara needs some timing changes to make him a viable character. His close B (the chain strike) needs to have enough stun time at least one of his moves to combo from the front. Perhaps the A version of the Shadow Stitcher (hcb+A) could be sped up at the outset. Similarly with Bust's dp+Slash move, which is so slow it can't even be comboed from behind.

The hopback on his super should also be shortened to make it more threatening. Compared to a lot of DMs, like Slash Nakoruru's, it's got so much lead time that it can be seen coming from a mile away.

As a rule, low weak D kicks should push back more, I think.

Also, for collision issues, I can't count the number of times that Genjuro's close standing C has whiffed at point-blank range when it should have hit. I think the only characters it will ALWAYS hit are Gaira and Zankuro.
 

Xionicist

NEST Puppet
Joined
Aug 28, 2009
Posts
170
Also, for collision issues, I can't count the number of times that Genjuro's close standing C has whiffed at point-blank range when it should have hit. I think the only characters it will ALWAYS hit are Gaira and Zankuro.

This is absolutely true. Another weird one that inexplicably whiffs is Ukyo's close crouching B. For some reason it tends to be most common against Galford and Hanzo.
 

SSS

neo retired
Joined
Sep 27, 2002
Posts
10,771
Genjuro's jumping C is almost just as useless. Seems like the very tip of the sword needs to connect. I remember a match I had a while ago playing as kyoshiro. After the ending of a special move the opponent attacked and completely whiffed, I'll see if I can replicate it. Any chance you could add in decapitations? The heads are there, ruru kills would be nice as well. Anyone know the difference between the two ss3 rom sets? Snk did something to the game as I have a version half filled with eproms, and another with none. There's also the bug where the voice intros don't play.
 

abasuto

Orgy Hosting Mod
15 Year Member
Joined
May 26, 2004
Posts
22,221
On top of buggy hit detection, my main issue I'd want fixed is damage balance.

It simply removes to fun to have a close match going then, bam, 1 single hit tags you for 50%+ of your health.

That pretty much gets players into the mindframe of basing their entire strategy around landing 1 killer hit.
 

SSS

neo retired
Joined
Sep 27, 2002
Posts
10,771
On top of buggy hit detection, my main issue I'd want fixed is damage balance.

It simply removes to fun to have a close match going then, bam, 1 single hit tags you for 50%+ of your health.

That pretty much gets players into the mindframe of basing their entire strategy around landing 1 killer hit.

I don't find that to be a problem. Just adjust your gameplay. Hard slashes usually take a while to execute giving you plenty of time to strike or sidestep.
 

evil wasabi

The Jongmaster
20 Year Member
Joined
Aug 20, 2000
Posts
60,435
Amakusa's crouching B. This needs more range.
Tone down the damage from Amakusa's kicks.

change the motion for Miasma Plasma from back,down-back, back into DP+D. The motion is too difficult to be facilitated routinely.

Change the phoenix flash from b,f,b,f+slash to QCB+ slash

Rimururu - tone down her damage. She's using a fucking butter knife.
 

smkdan

Galford's Armourer
Joined
Dec 30, 2009
Posts
452
@BB: there' s a lot of things you can't do through a hacked BIOS alone, depending on how SNK set things out that might be one of them. I'll consider it but it's one of the weirder requests I'll get haha

SamuraiShodownSensei said:
After the ending of a special move the opponent attacked and completely whiffed, I'll see if I can replicate it.

See if you could do that, it'd help plenty. Any frames that cause whiffs like that for no reason can be fixed easily, just have to know what they are without endless trial and error on my end.

Any chance you could add in decapitations? The heads are there, ruru kills would be nice as well.

Yes for bisect/decap/explosion(think I saw them there) fatalities, probably not for ruru kills. Animations aren't there + GFX is probably not in ROM. Forcing fatalities on them just makes the screen go dark and they just stand there. Not impossible, but I might not bother.

Anyone know the difference between the two ss3 rom sets? Snk did something to the game as I have a version half filled with eproms, and another with none.

Im using the one with two P ROMs / same as AES ROMs according to MAME. I want to know myself, I just picked the second set since it might be slightly less broken than the initial run.

The voice intro bug is already fixed.

@Abasuto: Damage balance can already be tweaked per character and overall. First thing I added to the game since it's easy to implement. Even if someone doesn't want to change a single setting for whatever reason they can leave everything at defaults since everything is freely adjustable.

I see the AI being called 'cheap' sometimes but I'm not seeing it. Is it just referring to damage/defense handicap the game imposes on later AI fights? It's there, but fairly subtle.

quick question too: what's the policy on single ROM links here? I don't want to post a zip that you can just run in MAME, just a single file you put inside samsho3h.zip. If I can cut out the need for patches then great.

I'll put up a ROM with some of the collision detection fixed soon to mess around with.
 

FairlanePhantom

Mai's Apprentice
Joined
Mar 31, 2007
Posts
1,814
I'll play it tonight and see what I notice that hasn't been mentioned. If this project works out, maybe you could attempt the hit detection in SVC, that is if you're willing to lose sleep over that one.
 

Xionicist

NEST Puppet
Joined
Aug 28, 2009
Posts
170
I'm not seeing where the AI being described as cheap is coming from either. Sure, it is incredibly hard compared to the rest of series, but what has kept me coming back it for well over a decade is that challenge. Knowing that late match the computer is going to crank up the difficultly and spam well timed supers is why I enjoy III.
 

FairlanePhantom

Mai's Apprentice
Joined
Mar 31, 2007
Posts
1,814
I'm not seeing where the AI being described as cheap is coming from either. Sure, it is incredibly hard compared to the rest of series, but what has kept me coming back it for well over a decade is that challenge. Knowing that late match the computer is going to crank up the difficultly and spam well timed supers is why I enjoy III.


But it's the hit detection that makes it difficult to make a comeback when the computer becomes extra ruthless, so I can see why this project is being pursued. There's been times I saw my weapon go straight through the computer and it still continued whatever move it was doing.
 

evil wasabi

The Jongmaster
20 Year Member
Joined
Aug 20, 2000
Posts
60,435
I'm not seeing where the AI being described as cheap is coming from either. Sure, it is incredibly hard compared to the rest of series, but what has kept me coming back it for well over a decade is that challenge. Knowing that late match the computer is going to crank up the difficultly and spam well timed supers is why I enjoy III.

Do you know fucking stupid many gamers are though? I mean, listen to every fuckwad that prefers SSIV over SSIII and it's clear that those people have no idea what a fighting game is about.

"boo hoo, the roster is smaller."
 

Deuce

Death Before Dishonesty, Logic Above All,
Joined
Feb 13, 2002
Posts
7,454
Another Genjuro note... his DM used to have great anti-air priority. Now it's basically useless outside of a combo, and the command only works about half the time. Could the command be changed back to hcb,f+A? To make up for this, you could make the recovery work more like in SS2... he always went through the full recovery animation, even if blocked, whereas in SS3, it can be repeated immediately if blocked indefinitely, so long as he has full POW. I'd shorten that recovery anim a little, though, back more to SS2 levels.

Get rid of Nakoruru's ability to interrupt any normal into any special. It's one of her biggest, most overpowering aspects.

Bust Haohmaru probably needs a move makeover, though I don't know how easy that would be to implement. I've got plenty of ideas for a movelist that would work to replace what he's got, but putting it in the game isn't something I know anything about.

Slash Shizumaru has some overpowered issues, too. His projectile should not hit on the return, first and foremost. The low close C is also a multihit, which doesn't make any visual sense. Comparing slash and bust's DMs, Bust's has barely any range, where Slash has fullscreen range once it's started.

These are just a few more ideas that crossed my mind recently.
 

LWK

Earl of Sexyheim
20 Year Member
Joined
Jan 5, 2001
Posts
18,064
On top of buggy hit detection, my main issue I'd want fixed is damage balance.

It simply removes to fun to have a close match going then, bam, 1 single hit tags you for 50%+ of your health.

That pretty much gets players into the mindframe of basing their entire strategy around landing 1 killer hit.

No, that's based on counter's or allowing stupid shit. Things like that are why SSIII is so great. It makes people more careful about sticking laggy shit out.
For example Haoh's sC should be just as damaging without change, as well as any fierce slash. The majority of them are really laggy for a reason, they are made to 'wreck' punish stupidity.

All you guys need to fix is minor detection issues and AB SWAP infinites that ruined the competitive scene. That is all, nothing else.
 

Deuce

Death Before Dishonesty, Logic Above All,
Joined
Feb 13, 2002
Posts
7,454
There have always been counter hits that could do 50% or more damage in SamSho. Yes, in SS2 as well. SS3's damage isn't nearly as high as people seem to think, in comparison to SS2.

All you guys need to fix is minor detection issues and AB SWAP infinites that ruined the competitive scene. That is all, nothing else.

That's short-sighted. SS3 has plenty of other issues beyond collision detection and infinites. There are a ton of legitimate bugs and real balance issues to fix. AB swap is problematic, but it's not the sole source of what makes characters like Bust Haohmaru and Slash Nakoruru top-tier. Bust Haoh's basic infinite doesn't require an AB swap at all.

smkdan told me believes he has a basic fix in for repeated moves in an infinite already in place (or already theoretically working). I have not had a chance to try it out myself.
 
Last edited:

evil wasabi

The Jongmaster
20 Year Member
Joined
Aug 20, 2000
Posts
60,435
All you guys need to fix is minor detection issues and AB SWAP infinites that ruined the competitive scene. That is all, nothing else.

that would still leave Amakusa gimped.

If his move commands can be changed to reflect the commands he has in SSIV, he'd become much more enjoyable.
 

Arc_Light

Timid Neo Newbie
Joined
Jan 19, 2010
Posts
1
Hi guys,

Thanks so much for doing this!!

Another suggestion - if it's not been fixed already, one thing that always drove me nut in SS3 - typical SNK boss syndrome - was that C slashes that do two hits - Ukyo's, for instance, though this issue is certainly not limited to him - tend not to follow through properly - that is, if the first hit connects, the second automatically misses, even if it passes right through him obnoxious. Granted, this may make him marginally easier to beat, but, well, it seems only fair.
 

Kazuki Dash

Samurai Shodown Swordsmith
Joined
Feb 21, 2004
Posts
4,321
Disclaimer: I fully admit that I haven't really played SS3 in a while, am in no way any kind of authority on it, and most of the things I'll mention are primarily from memory.

- Any chance for an option to disable air blocking would be neat.

- I'd also like to see the "floaty" quality that characters have be reduced/eliminated.

- Lastly, it feels like characters are given lengthy stagger animations in way too many situations.

Now if those far more versed in SS3 choose to remind or explain to me how these things might be taking away from what defines the particular style of gameplay in SS3, I will fully concede to their expertise. Just thought I'd bring up these things even for the sake of pure discussion so as to maybe understand if my qualms are at all legit, or a result of SS3 simply not being my cup of tea.

Now feel free to fling those tomatoes.
:D
 

smkdan

Galford's Armourer
Joined
Dec 30, 2009
Posts
452
smkdan told me believes he has a basic fix in for repeated moves in an infinite already in place (or already theoretically working). I have not had a chance to try it out myself

It works but with a ton of false positives. It catches everythng I've thrown at it in limited testing but stuff like multihit moves and rapid low kicks get caught too. Just have to move a few things around and it'll work fine. The currently implemented rule is that any move appearing twice in any combo string is forced to act like a footsweep.

If SVC gets fixed it'll be by someone else.
 

Deuce

Death Before Dishonesty, Logic Above All,
Joined
Feb 13, 2002
Posts
7,454
Awesome. I will test this out tonight.
 

LWK

Earl of Sexyheim
20 Year Member
Joined
Jan 5, 2001
Posts
18,064
that would still leave Amakusa gimped.

If his move commands can be changed to reflect the commands he has in SSIV, he'd become much more enjoyable.

Well, what if he becomes to good with a change like this? Maybe the spirit of that game is simply because Amakusa is gimped. I dunno though, I'd need to put time into using him to see. I think he's probably good though.
 
Top