OFFICIAL! MS 3 for PS2 and many more!!

[Loefye]

Originally posted by Fran:
<strong>

blah blah blah

perfect neo ports on a saturn?

sure

</strong><hr></blockquote>

Heheheh my saturn MS1 port for 60$ is almost a perfect port compared to the 1,000$ AES MS1 origonal. You would have to be a complete dumbass to pay that much for an AES game.

 

[jbeedham]

That's awesome to see these games hitting other systems.

 

[Atro]

I'm not sure about how the PS2 would handle a Metal Slug 3. Sure that the PS2 have much more power than the Neo Geo, but like HPMAN says, it's a matter of ram for 2-D games.

On the Saturn I have a copy of KOF95 with the Ram Cart, the game still loads a bit, but that's an old game so it handles quite easily the graphics.

The PS2 have of course more ram than the Saturn, but Slug 3 is very big ( 88.5 Megabytes ), the PS2 have 32Megs of ram, so it can't load the whole game to the ram. Loadings will have to appear, the graphics can be the same, but I am sure that it'll lose some animations.

Remember KOF99 for the DC?? The backgrounds were in 3D, wich means that it's less RAM-dependent and the loadings were there too. The PS2 have twicw the amount of ram than the DC and Metal Slug 3 is not much bigger than KOF99, but Metal Slug 3 can't have 3D Backgrounds.

We'll have to see it to believe it.
Metal Slug 1 was a jerky version on the PSX. <img src="graemlins/eek2.gif" border="0" alt="[Eek 2]" />

 

[chimpmeister]

Originally posted by Megatron X:
<strong>

PS2's 32MB of RAM limited <img src="graemlins/spock.gif" border="0" alt="[Spock]" /> ? Look at Dreamcast which is 16MB of RAM. Which is limited now <img src="graemlins/smirk.gif" border="0" alt="[Smirk]" /> ?

What really matters is RAM. No RAM, No Game <img src="graemlins/smirk.gif" border="0" alt="[Smirk]" /> .

Thanks for the info, dfx .

[ July 02, 2002: Message edited by: Megatron X ]</strong><hr></blockquote>

Your specs are wrong, although your points about RAM are well taken. Dreamcast has 26MB total RAM (16MB System, 8MB video[VRAM], 2MB sound). PS2 has 38MB total RAM (32MB System, 4MB VRAM (pitiful), and 2MB sound). Of course XBox has 64MB system RAM, which can be allocated as needed to system, video, and sound.

Actually the DC with twice the video RAM handles some games better than the PS2, sad to say. Sony f***ed up the design of the PS2 pretty badly, and it shows in many games that feature low-res textures, heavy fog, and aliasing problems.

Given the choice, I'd much rather see Metal Slug 3 appear on the DC, which appears to be much more capable of handling 2D games well. Unfortunately, that will never happen; what a shame. <img src="graemlins/annoyed.gif" border="0" alt="[Annoyed]" />

 

[HPMAN]

All in one I think 3D backgrounds require las much ram as 2D one (if not more).

Take MOTW as an example, 2D backgrounds, on the DC, near perfect port, biggest flaw being the game resolution boosted to interlaced 640*480.
Near perfect port of a 688Megs game with the DC.

PS2 memory sure can hold a MS3 stage. Loading between stages, well is this SO bad ? We're talking "nex gen" loading times here, not neo CD...

Ports hasn't to be "perfect", they can be pretty good and bring the game to a larger audience. I think that's fine this way. "Quest of perfection" brings people to emulation, where they could buy a port and bring money to playmore.

IMO ports should launch alongside or very shortly after home versions. I think lots of emu problems would be solved this way...

 

[HPMAN]

Originally posted by chimpmeister:
<strong>Your specs are wrong, although your points about RAM are well taken. Dreamcast has 26MB total RAM (16MB System, 8MB video[VRAM], 2MB sound). PS2 has 38MB total RAM (32MB System, 4MB VRAM (pitiful), and 2MB sound). Of course XBox has 64MB system RAM, which can be allocated as needed to system, video, and sound.

Actually the DC with twice the video RAM handles some games better than the PS2, sad to say. Sony f***ed up the design of the PS2 pretty badly, and it shows in many games that feature low-res textures, heavy fog, and aliasing problems.</strong><hr></blockquote>

I think you're wrong, 2D games can afford main RAM -> VRAM transfers during gameplay.

Look at the Saturn. RAM cart allowed better 2D games, right ? Was it VRAM ? No.
End of demonstation.

 

[DarkRurouni]

Any way you put it MS3 and all the other SNK games being ported to the PS2 and DC means more money for the company. Period!!!

 

[X]

Come on guys lets all agree on one thing. Metal Slug 3 would rule on the damn Atari 2600 if the gameplay was intact

 

[evil wasabi]

Originally posted by Fran:
<strong>

blah blah blah

perfect neo ports on a saturn?

sure

</strong><hr></blockquote>

well then according to your logic, since saturn can handle perfect cps-2 ports, then neo is capable of perfect cps-2 ports, correct?

thats sure as hell what it seems like to me.


saturn is leagues ahead of neo in terms of hardware.

i didnt say that the saturn ports were perfect, but that it is possible for a perfect port. since snk half-assed their ports and chose to use the 1meg ram cart, they arent as good as the originals. (hell i like them better. i have more fun playing the games on my saturn then on my neo)

i am in no means dissing thoes who buy home carts, its your money, spend it how you want.

what i am trying to do is EDUCATE the neo-jaded that it is ENTIRELY possible for a PERFECT PORT of a neo game, to all next gen systems, saturn, and probably 32x (since its essentially a saturn) i am by no means stating that all of snk's ports are perfect, because they arent, most are halfassed anyway.

thankyou.

 

[Atro]

OK OK OK OK OK.

Every Saturn PSX, Saturn, DC or PS2 or whatever could do any Neo Geo title perfectly with ease if they were all Cart based consoles. They are not, so you have to think twice when you're re-programming the game to try to make the port perfect.

 

[PrOzErG]

Guys, just something I want to point out. I think it's great they get MS3 out for PS2, yeah I know what you guys mean it will not be the same thing, maybe it will be buggy, and all the other shit... But someone that doesn't have the money to buy a AES, MS3 and that never played MS3 on MVS or Neo-Geo will not see the difference, and probably enjoy the game at its fullest even if it's not perfect! <img src="graemlins/mrt2.gif" border="0" alt="[Mr T]" />

Just give it a chance, who knows maybe it will be almost perfect or even have extra shit like CD version and the PS one. I just think everyone should be happy right now. And plz dont try to find and bitch about how MS3 will suck on PS2, wait after it's released !! <img src="graemlins/mad2.gif" border="0" alt="[Mad 2]" />

 

[JHendrix]

Originally posted by HPMAN:
<strong>

I think you're wrong, 2D games can afford main RAM -> VRAM transfers during gameplay.

Look at the Saturn. RAM cart allowed better 2D games, right ? Was it VRAM ? No.
End of demonstation. </strong><hr></blockquote>

THANK YOU SO DAMN MUCH!

Chimp the 4Mb VRAM on the PS2 is a Frame buffer! That means it takes the final image that's ready for output to your TV (the 2D image that is displayed). This is especially true for 2D games. The Saturn had a 4Mb RAM cart that handled PERFECT CPS-2 conversions. Like HPMAN said, all that's needed is main RAM.

And even though MS3 is about 88Mb all you have to do is load all the data necessary for one level at one time. So lets say that at any point in the game, no more than 20Mb is needed for one sequence (and that is a very high estimation). That means that all the PS2 would have to load is 20Mb off the CD, and that's all. Trust me, it will load quicker than you'll notice.

And just for the record, having 3D backgrounds does require the same if not more space than it would for a 2D background. Cause now you need 3D models, TEXTURES, animation data, etc. A lot more than just one big sprite.

Not to mention that the thing that made people bitch about MOTW not being perfect was "Missing frames of animation at the Character select screen." Well KOF2k1 has so many missing frames of animatoin compared to 98 I'm sure that the PS2 will have an easier time handling it.

So please, do the community a favor and pick these games up. It'll be well worth giving some money directly to Playmore. Hell it may even make them think to develop games soley on DC or PS2! (Oh god it's blasphemy! We may get a real upgrade to KOF next year!?!?!)

Peace

JHendrix

 

[NeoLord]

This tired debate again? All right.... the Saturn does a decent job of reproducing SNK ports, but the sound suffers from poor sampling (which was also the case with the Genesis; both systems had inferior sound chips).

I'm not saying this devalues the Saturn as a system, but the ports are far from perfect. Think of it this way: there were less SNK ports on the Saturn, right? You get decent conversions of KOF '95, '96, '97, etc., but you get poor sound sampling and shortened redbook tracks (RBFF would be a good example of this). If you're going to compare which is better -- a port or the real deal -- then why not inject a hardy dose of fanboy-isim for the Neo CD? It played host to just about every Neo game available (sans anything past KOF '99), and each game was a near-perfect rendition of the MVS / AES version sans load times.

In some ways you could consider Neo CD games 'ports', because some games required additional progamming and sprite reduction to accommodate the Neo CD's limited base RAM ( i.e. AOF3 for example). In short, the Neo CD should be receiving some attention in this debate since it was better at reproducing the originals than any other system.

[ July 02, 2002: Message edited by: NeoLord ]</p>

 

[Hippee]

I think that ports are great. They help more main-stream types get into Playmore's games. And if the ports are out there and people like them enough, then they might get interested in the Neo (they might not have even really known about SNK before).

So I say the quality of the ports doesn't matter - but they get the kof and ms series out there to potential neo fans. Which is a good thing any way you look at it.

<img src="confused.gif" border="0">

 

[chimpmeister]

Originally posted by HPMAN:
<strong>

I think you're wrong, 2D games can afford main RAM -> VRAM transfers during gameplay.

Look at the Saturn. RAM cart allowed better 2D games, right ? Was it VRAM ? No.
End of demonstation. </strong><hr></blockquote>

Your idea sounds good in theory, but in practice it's not so cool. Modern 3D games are very demanding, particularly those with a variety of textures and/or high-res textures. This includes racing games and first/third person action/adventure games in particular.

VRAM is used to display textures, right? Having a measly 4MB of VRAM DOES matter then, since less textures (and lower resolution ones) can be handled vs. having more VRAM (such as the 8MB in the DC) at any given time.

Anyone who tries to tell you it doesn't matter is full of it, plain and simple. And unfortunately, this has been proven in practice by many PS2 games which exhibit either characteristic low-res textures (Legacy of Kain games), stuttering frame rates (like Sky Gunner, LOL), heavy aliasing problems (almost all of them), lack of detail, or thick stupid fog.

A few games seem to break out of this situation, but the majority do not. The reality is that the PS2 should have been much better based on when it came out, but it wasn't. Maybe Sony will get it right next time (PS3) but from what I've heard about their ridiculous networking goals, I seriously doubt it . . . <img src="graemlins/ohno.gif" border="0" alt="[Oh No]" />

Oh and btw Saturn games aren't the greatest example, that system was very well designed from the beginning for 2D games and managed to handle most of them quite well, plus the games ported over were not nearly as demanding as they are these days.

 

[JHendrix]

Originally posted by chimpmeister:
<strong>

Your idea sounds good in theory, but in practice it's not so cool. Modern 3D games are very demanding, particularly those with a variety of textures and/or high-res textures. This includes racing games and first/third person action/adventure games in particular.

VRAM is used to display textures, right? Having a measly 4MB of VRAM DOES matter then, since less textures (and lower resolution ones) can be handled vs. having more VRAM (such as the 8MB in the DC) at any given time.

Anyone who tries to tell you it doesn't matter is full of it, plain and simple. And unfortunately, this has been proven in practice by many PS2 games which exhibit either characteristic low-res textures (Legacy of Kain games), stuttering frame rates (like Sky Gunner, LOL), heavy aliasing problems (almost all of them), lack of detail, or thick stupid fog.

A few games seem to break out of this situation, but the majority do not. The reality is that the PS2 should have been much better based on when it came out, but it wasn't. Maybe Sony will get it right next time (PS3) but from what I've heard about their ridiculous networking goals, I seriously doubt it . . . <img src="graemlins/ohno.gif" border="0" alt="[Oh No]" />

Oh and btw Saturn games aren't the greatest example, that system was very well designed from the beginning for 2D games and managed to handle most of them quite well, plus the games ported over were not nearly as demanding as they are these days.</strong><hr></blockquote>


Perhaps you're argument would hold some water IF WE WEREN'T TALKING ABOUT 2D GAMES!! I'm not even going to take issue with you about how the PS2 having some incredible texturing effects *cough*FFX*cough*

All you need for 2D games is RAM, that's it. No big frame buffer, nothing. Just lots of RAM to store the animations and the sprite files.

And for god's sake Chimp, just LOOK at Guilty Gear X on PS2. I mean for god's sake, if you can look at that and tell me that the PS2 can't handle 2D games then you really have to take your XBox glasses off. I'm not going to debate you that the XBox would be a better system for these and many other games to be on, because it is. It's the better system, but honestly the PS2 can handle Neo games, pure and simple.

At least we're debating this topic, not the idiotic notion that these games won't sell well...

Peace

JHendrix

 

[chimpmeister]

Originally posted by JHendrix:
<strong>


Perhaps you're argument would hold some water IF WE WEREN'T TALKING ABOUT 2D GAMES!! I'm not even going to take issue with you about how the PS2 having some incredible texturing effects *cough*FFX*cough*

All you need for 2D games is RAM, that's it. No big frame buffer, nothing. Just lots of RAM to store the animations and the sprite files.

And for god's sake Chimp, just LOOK at Guilty Gear X on PS2. I mean for god's sake, if you can look at that and tell me that the PS2 can't handle 2D games then you really have to take your XBox glasses off. I'm not going to debate you that the XBox would be a better system for these and many other games to be on, because it is. It's the better system, but honestly the PS2 can handle Neo games, pure and simple.

At least we're debating this topic, not the idiotic notion that these games won't sell well...

Peace

JHendrix</strong><hr></blockquote>

I certainly don't debate that the games wouldn't sell, I'll buy MS3 for PS2 in a heartbeat if thats the only console it ends up on (although as you say the XBox could handle it better). However it BETTER come out in the U.S., because I won't deal with chipping or modding my PS2 for imports, not for this system (I just used a boot disc for imports on my DC).

As for 2D games being less critical than 3D ones when it comes to VRAM, I agree. I haven't actually seen/played GGX yet but hope to soon now that I finally have a PS2.

Will MS3 be arcade perfect or better? I certainly hope so for the sake of millions of people who can't or won't shell out $250 for the home cart version. However, given the past track record of the PS2 for many games, I'm sceptical that it WILL be that good; time will tell.

 

[nick_th_fury]

Will MS3 be arcade perfect or better? I certainly hope so for the sake of millions of people who can't or won't shell out $250 for the home cart version. However, given the past track record of the PS2 for many games, I'm sceptical that it WILL be that good; time will tell. <hr></blockquote>


Perfect, Nail on the head.

Folks, I don't think any true Neo fan ever wanted there to not be a port.

I think ports are cool, for either the casual gamer, or someone that just plain isn't willing to shell out $300.

IMO, even if the the port were perfect, the $$ we paid for our home carts was more than worth it.

A) I own a great game.
B) I owned it for a couple years, YEARS, before it released on a cheaper format.
C) I get to still play now & in the future with no load times.

That's just worth the xtra cost to me.


Hell, my $$ spent on my Neo was so worth it,
I sometimes feel I should be paying rental fees to SNK.

I still play it after all these years, & not many systems have held my attention for so long.
Neo, Sega Genesis, & my Duo are about all I need.
Well worth the price of admission, all of em.

 

[Devil_Gans]

Originally posted by joseph:
<strong>

They need to release a special arcade pad for it. BC the analog sticks for ps2 royally suck.
-joseph</strong><hr></blockquote>

I have the Tekken 4 ps2 stick which controls like a dream and is so similar to the DC agetec stick.BTW,i don't ever use controllers for fighting games.Screw the controllers.They are only used for racing,adventure and other games.

 

[japanifan]

To say the Ps2 is crap is a pretty poor statement. you can say all you like about the PS2 but try to hate it after you play GT3, ICO ( note one of the best games ever ) or DMC. to deny yourself is to deny yourself of these great games. Now dont get me wrong i like heaps of games that come out on the neo. but thats just it i like the system for the games, not the games for the system. if you dont get what im saying its quite simple, not all games on the neo are good, heck most of them arent but the same goes for any console. i say get all the systems that you need to play the games you want. no system is better than another they are just different and all are good in their own way. Just find one that suits your needs. it just so happens that the neo fulfills the needs of most people here on this forum thats all. remember kiddies console bashings are for the ignorant.

 

[dfx]

WHAT'S THE PROBLEM OF SOME OF YOU GUYS ?

are you all wannabe programmers? throwing around
tech specs, wich are complete false every 2nd post...

let this be the problem of playmore!

and this is truely an neogeo fan site, so whats the
matter in insulting peoples because they buying aes games?
if someone want to spend 1600$ for an MS1 so let him
spend it.. its not your money!

i have just 5 aes carts, and i dont buy them to show my
status symbole, or such an fuck, but to play them!

next will be ROTD, because i love the neogeo ever since 95
and i want to play any new release instantly!
am i now an dumbass?
because i work every day for my money and buy something
exclusive and special?
NO!

people must learn not to force their way of life onto others
then this will be a finer place to stay!

[ July 03, 2002: Message edited by: dfx ]</p>

 

[JHendrix]

Where did I say that buying the AES carts was wrong? I do think it's pretty dumb to spend that much cash on a single game, but to each his own.

What I did say that was now with more powerful system on the job, we will get perfect (or as close enough to make the difference inconsequential). And that by buying these ports you will give a lot more money to Playmore/SNK. And that hopefully if these ports are successful enough, then SNK/Playmore will finnally take KOF, SS, LB, MOTW, etc to new platforms. Much like Capcom did, and look at where they are now.

I know this "ideal" is pissing people off *cough*Fran*cough* but I don't care. I want new games with better graphics (in 2D) and with more variety. You can no longer get that on the Neo. I love the games we got, but after playing KOF2k1 it's like each new release is beating a dead horse.

Peace

JHendrix

 

[Bluevoodu]

dangit... make it for the Gamecube!!

This is rather sad seeing the slug go to the ps2. Now all my ps2 panzy friends can gloat because they didn't pay as much for theirs... but at least mine doesn't have load time lol they won't come over anymore to gloat over ms3 neo geo aes.

oh well... the more money playmore makes.. maybe the more carts they will bring to the neo geo aes... maybe they will develope more newer titles.


Eternal Darkness rules!!!! *I had to add that*


†B†V†

 

[Mike]

ANYONE THAT PLAYS A PORT AND THEN TRIES TO CONVINCE HIMSELF THAT IT "FEELS" LIKE THE ORIGINAL JUST BECAUSE THEY PAID A FRACTION OF THE RETAIL IS A DUMB FUCK!

HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA!!!!!

<img src="graemlins/eye.gif" border="0" alt="[Eye]" />

 

[JHendrix]

Originally posted by Mike:
<strong>ANYONE THAT PLAYS A PORT AND THEN TRIES TO CONVINCE HIMSELF THAT IT "FEELS" LIKE THE ORIGINAL JUST BECAUSE THEY PAID A FRACTION OF THE RETAIL IS A DUMB FUCK!

HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA!!!!!

<img src="graemlins/eye.gif" border="0" alt="[Eye]" /> </strong><hr></blockquote>

Some how you have to be joking. I'm a Capcom vs. SNK 2 freak and I'm prefectly happy with my PS2 port. Hell I've seen MOTW on DC and it's just as good as my MVS version.

I don't care about it having to load for about 5 seconds between matches, or if I'm missing 2 frames of animation at the character select screen. All I do know is that people can go buy MOTW cheaper than I bought my MVS version for. And it's just as good.

I don't need to be convinced it's as good as the original. I have universal joysticks that I use with all my systems and it's configured to the MVS button layout when I want to.

I don't need to buy these games. I have them on cart or on ROM, which I can play with my joysticks on my 27" TV. I'm going to buy these games and hope to god they sell well enough to make Playmore finnally move towards "mainstream" console development. As long as I get my favorite games with better GFX, animations, etc. then I'm happy. Not to mention we won't have to wait for ROM dumps of games anymore, or pay $300 per cart.

Sure it'll piss of the collectors, but I really couldn't care less. I play my games, I want them to be as good as I can get them for the best price.

Peace

JHendrix