I wish MVS people would stop bashing the home system.

[BIG BEAR]

Originally posted by MKL:

That's exactly like claiming that shit tastes as good as chocolate.

The EMU users would lead you to believe the above statement...but a better anology would be a bottle of urine and a bottle of beer.. A bottle of urine can look identical to a dark draft or light beer but obviously they would'nt taste the same..
EMU exclusive people are a JOKE!
-BB

 

[Viewpoint]

This thread is stupid.

I don't see why you guys are feeding someone who obviously being a troll. I mean come on he fits this description perfectly<a href="http://www.winternet.com/~mikelr/flame45.html" target="_blank">here.</a>

 

[MKL]

Originally posted by Wan-Fu:
<strong>I think this was a good counter argument.
</strong><hr></blockquote>

I'm afraid that's no counterargument at all... it may represent an improvement over S-Video because it's RGB but a VGA monitor is not the most appropriate thing to display the signal of a low res device like the Neo, it gives an emu-like effect... but quite apart from this, the obvious objection to this alleged "counterargument" is that if you want you may hook up the MVS to the XRGB+ just as well, and since its original RGB output is inherently better than that of the AES this difference will be reflected even through the XRGB+.

So much for your "counterargument"...

 

[MKL]

Originally posted by Matt Semmel:
<strong>only casual gamers care about graphics. As long as no gameplay is lost (like with ports), then it doesn't matter! <img src="graemlins/veryangry.gif" border="0" alt="[Very Angry]" /> </strong><hr></blockquote>

Oh, it doesn't matter? Really? Then tell me this:
why don't people just use an RF cable then? Why do they want a S-Video mod? Why do Europeans want an RGB scart cable? the gameplay remains the same, it's not lost... Oh, wait wait, now i know the answer: they're all "casual gamers". So come on, let's all use the good ole RF!

 

[MKL]

Originally posted by BonusKun:
<strong>My post is stupid.</strong><hr></blockquote>

I agree, Bonuskunt.

 

[Wan-Fu]

Originally posted by MKL:
<strong>
I'm afraid that's no counterargument at all... </strong><hr></blockquote>

You are referring to the pixilated effect of playing EMU's on a VGA monitor? If so, you are quite mistaken as that is not the case with XRGB-2+. The graphics look simply breathtaking.

As for using an MVS system with an XRGB-2+, yes you could do that but that is irrelevant. The point of brining up the XRGB discussion was not to prove that AES is better than MVS, but that the video output is not a valid reason for deciding the superiority of one over the other.

The superiority is a function of cost vs. collectability which is a subjective thing.

Finally, if you want to get under my skin you have to do better next time. The rolling eyes are for neophyte warriors.

 

[MKL]

Originally posted by Wan-Fu:
<strong>the video output is not a valid reason for deciding the superiority of one over the other.
</strong><hr></blockquote>

Unlike artwork, manuals, inserts, the video output is the most important objective parameter that decides the issue. When you have to recur to expensive mods or external devices to get a visual improvement, it means that the default conditions weren't optimal: therefore, when compared to MVS (which doesn't need any mod) the AES is inferior. INFERIOR is just a relative term, it doesn't mean "shitty" as most people here seem to think.

 

[MarrymeMai]

MKL, nice going custom editing my original quote to fit your "|_00|< 47
/\/\Y l337|\|355 |)00|)!!!" needs. You can't even make a case without personal insult. If you're the MVS poster boy, I think most MVS owners would sooner burn their cabs than be associated with you. <img src="graemlins/shame.gif" border="0" alt="[Shame]" /> You and Dion would make a cute couple; you two could shred AES inserts aaaaall night long!

[ October 07, 2002: Message edited by: MarrymeMai ]</p>

 

[JHendrix]

Originally posted by BIG BEAR:
<strong>Originally posted by MKL:

That's exactly like claiming that shit tastes as good as chocolate.

The EMU users would lead you to believe the above statement...but a better anology would be a bottle of urine and a bottle of beer.. A bottle of urine can look identical to a dark draft or light beer but obviously they would'nt taste the same..
EMU exclusive people are a JOKE!
-BB</strong><hr></blockquote>


Not trying to diss you, or to be an asshole, but if you've seen/played MAME or any other EMU ran on the setups I've seen, such as:

a 36" TV with the PC coming in through VGA
a 27" TV through S-Video and Composite
a 25" TV inside of a dedicated MAME cabinet
a 25" Arcade Monitor with a PC2JAMMA style converer.

Now I understand that about 95% of all EMU lovers DON'T or can't play this way but it has been done in ways that make the ROM's look every bit as good as the original, to the point where I couldn't distinguish anymore.

Now if you want to talk about EMU users being lame for not owning the original thing then well, yeah you're dead on.

Peace

JHendrix

 

[Wan-Fu]

Originally posted by MKL:
<strong>

When you have to recur to expensive mods or external devices to get a visual improvement, it means that the default conditions weren't optimal.</strong><hr></blockquote>

An XRGB-2+ is a general purpose device and can be used with most consoles. In this respect, it is fundamentally different from an internal mod. Furthermore, it is not compensating for poor default conditions; rather, it brings out the optimal performance from the hardware.

 

[NeoFreakWolf]

Now this is what I like, a thread I don't even need to read anything more than just the title itself before I can make judgement. The answer is simple folks... Just collect them all. With MVS you get some cool bragging rights as well as some spiffy side art, and with AES you get a more portible (and you fellow AES owners out there know I use the term lightly) solution for great games. I own an AES, but I also like MVS as well as the idea of someday owning a supergun, but let's face facts, it's just not practical bring your supergun, a 1 slot pcb, the cart, 2 controllers, and an RGB monitor (and damn anybody who says S-video is an acceptible subsitute to an actual arcade monitor) over to your friends house for a little Metal Slug 3 action. With AES, all that is required is your system, an extra controller and the game, that's it. Then we have games that can only be found on MVS like Strikers: 1945+, Prehistoric Isle 2, and the Bust a Move series, all great reasons to go MVS, but unless you're some kind of electrical boy wonder who could make your own portible MVS system (put your hand Jhendrix), there off limits to the likes of AES owners, unless you get one of 2 things, a converted cart, or a Phantom 1 converter.

I don't like ConCarts unless they are a last resort, and they don't ever end circulating as originals. If you're dead set on playing MVS, just get a Phantom-1 and then you can spend the rest of your days collecting both. Remember folks, not only are these games fun to play, but they are a part of our history as well

Brought to you by the Proto Culture Gaming Soceity.
<img src="graemlins/multi.gif" border="0" alt="[Multi Color Bouncey]" />

"Okay Tekken boy, let's see you beat King of Fighters 97 in the arcade with only 4 quarters."
-Steve Rohler Jr, Aladdin's Castle 1997.

 

[Hakkun]

This is what Bonuskun wrote:

Originally posted by BonusKun:
<strong>This thread is stupid.</strong><hr></blockquote>

And this is what MKL quoted (editing):

Originally posted by BonusKun:
<strong>My post is stupid.</strong><hr></blockquote>

This is sad...

 

[Shito]

Originally posted by MKL:
<strong>

Man, the fact that you had to mod it just proves that AES is inferior...when you mod it, then it's no longer what it was originally.</strong><hr></blockquote>

The lucky european I am, I can use my AES with its standard pure-rgb scart connection.

RGB = same as MVS

 

[NGT]

"when you mod it, then it's no longer what it was originally."

lol! what a keen observation....

 

[MKL]

Originally posted by Shito:
<strong>The lucky european I am, I can use my AES with its standard pure-rgb scart connection.

RGB = same as MVS</strong><hr></blockquote>

I have the feeling you don't know what you're talking about because if there is a point that's beyond dispute is that the MVS RGB output is far better than that of the AES. It's a fact, it wasn't under discussion... The people here (and in the thread AES vs MVS) simply objected that this aspect alone is not enough to declare MVS the superior system. But nobody with some tech knowledge denies the fact that the RGB output of the MVS is way better...

And quite apart from this, It's also a well-known *fact* that the AES RGB output has an uneven quality that varies according to the various board revisions the AES has undergone through the years. As a result, a lot of people have an AES with cheap, poor or even crap RGB output: I happened to see myself horrendous picture even when the console was hooked up to a terrific Sony TV. Of course there are cases where the RGB output is pretty decent (probably this is your case) but it's in any case inferior to that of an MVS.

So much for your AES "pure"-RGB...

 

[Shito]

Originally posted by MKL:
<strong>

I have the feeling you don't know what you're talking about because if there is a point that's beyond dispute is that the MVS RGB output is far better than that of the AES. It's a fact, it wasn't under discussion... The people here (and in the thread AES vs MVS) simply objected that this aspect alone is not enough to declare MVS the superior system. But nobody with some tech knowledge denies the fact that the RGB output of the MVS is way better...

And quite apart from this, It's also a well-known *fact* that the AES RGB output has an uneven quality that varies according to the various board revisions the AES has undergone through the years. As a result, a lot of people have an AES with cheap, poor or even crap RGB output: I happened to see myself horrendous picture even when the console was hooked up to a terrific Sony TV. Of course there are cases where the RGB output is pretty decent (probably this is your case) but it's in any case inferior to that of an MVS.

So much for your AES "pure"-RGB...</strong><hr></blockquote>

Oh, well... RGB is RGB.

Do you really see any significant diffences among two different RGB output from what it's the SAME machine after all?

RGB is a un-modulated signal, after all. That is what really matters in terms of sharpness, I think.

Other settings do really depends from the TV you use too.

Only my esperience, anyway.

Another fact is AES is the way SNK intended the 'NeoGeo experience at home' period.

Thus, as for collection sake, AES all the way.

MVS is still a cool choice for pure gaming interest. Just like having a JukeBox or any other 'coin operated' machine @ home.

Once my AES collection will be settled, I would probably buy also a good Japanese original NeoGeo cab with a multi-slot board and all my *fav* games, as lousy and cheap as I will find them, to play 'em hard with my friends till late!

 

[Shito]

Just another point.

It's often said AES has a 'weak' RGB output.

Well, I'm not a tecnician, but I feel someway there's some differences from RGA-monitors and RGB-tv.

AES is designed to be connected with standards home TV. With this kind of devices, the video RGB output seems quite identical to the MVS one (on a monitor) in term of sharpness, colors, brintess, and all.

Again, just my experience.

 

[EvilMike]

Alright I have both a home system and an MVS system. I love both but I play the Home system tons more. I tend to have long gaming sessions and get sick of standing or sitting on a stool. Also as far as picture quality goes here is the thing. People talk big about RGB from the MVS board which in theory is better quality than the Home system. Here is the thing 95% of the people on this board with cabs own OLD cabs. Monitor capacitors go bad and makes the picture look like shit and it's not like you can just fix capacitors. Even Briggs says this is something one should have proffesionally done. Due to this many people with cabs ASUME they have better picture quality because they are told they do by people on the boards. When I compare my modded Home system to my cab the Home systems picture is crisper and more vibrant.

As far as price goes a modded home system and phantom cost about as much as it would to buy a cab and have it shipped to you.

Anything beyond picture quality is pure preference no side is right or wrong. The arcade expereince and collectability are all in the eye of the beholder. Personally the big Neo stick gives me a nice arcade feel. In the end though I'll continue to swing both ways.

 

[Gamefan]

I do not see the point in fighting about this. So there are two variations on the same system. Buy the one you like most. To me the only difference is the packaging. One comes in a very nice case, the other comes in a carton box. They play the same, look the same, therefore are the same. Just my opinion.


GAMEFAN

 

[Zizzer]

Originally posted by EvilMike:
<strong>Here is the thing 95% of the people on this board with cabs own OLD cabs. Monitor capacitors go bad and makes the picture look like shit and it's not like you can just fix capacitors. Even Briggs says this is something one should have proffesionally done. Due to this many people with cabs ASUME they have better picture quality because they are told they do by people on the boards. When I compare my modded Home system to my cab the Home systems picture is crisper and more vibrant.</strong><hr></blockquote>

I'll be the first to admit that my Neo cab's monitor is a burnt-in shitmonger and I could probably pull a better picture out of someones ass! <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[LOL]" />

 

[SNK_NEOGEO_FREAK]

I'm mostly an MVS user and have had several AES systems and will get another one soon, as well as CD system.

Also long as it's SNK/NEOGEO, that's ALL that matters!

I respect any NEOGEO user, be it AES, MVS or CD!

NEOGEO is the BEST no matter what!

 

[MKL]

Originally posted by Shito:
<strong>It's often said AES has a 'weak' RGB output.

Well, I'm not a tecnician, but I feel someway there's some differences from RGA-monitors and RGB-tv.

AES is designed to be connected with standards home TV. With this kind of devices, the video RGB output seems quite identical to the MVS one (on a monitor) in term of sharpness, colors, brintess, and all.</strong><hr></blockquote>

You should see the picture I get from my MVS hooked up to my Sony Trinitron 29" via a high-quality gold-plated scart cable...

Anyway, the fact is that the MVS video chip is RGB-dedicated, as is always the case with arcade boards, whereas its AES counterpart has got to handle composite as well and apparently SNK had to sacrifice a bit the quality of the RGB output in order to get a better composite signal. No surprise, then, that !Arcade! decided to design a brand new RGB chip for their video mods.

I fail to see the bearing of your last remark on the present issue but yes, what you say is basically correct: arcade monitors and (scart) TV's have rather different RGB sensitivity and impedence input levels, typically 1,5-to-4V peak-to-peak/1Kohm for standard arcade monitors and 0,7V ptp/75ohm for (scart) TV's. As a consequence, arcade PCB's and home consoles are designed accordingly. However, while hooking up an AES to an arcade monitor yields disappointing (if not just awful) results, you have absolutely no problem to hook up an MVS (or any other arcade board for that matter) to a (scart) TV...

Regards

[ October 09, 2002: Message edited by: MKL ]</p>

 

[Lovecraft0110]

First of all, I have to say I absolutely agree with MKL's statements.

As he pointed out, it's a matter of fact and not a subjective opinion that MVS systems are inherently superior in terms of video output quality. That may not be self-evident for US-based people, but for people such as MKL and myself, living in europe, the fact remains that the video quality you can get through a SCART RGB cable is unbeatable.

Second, I would like to make one question to MKL: which AES systems are in theory supposed to provide a better RGB signal?. Later JAP consoles?. Or is it just a matter of individual variation among them?

 

[Bishamon]

I own a Supergun/MVS setup, but in no way do I think it's superior to the AES system. The bonus to the MVS is some cheaper games and most Superguns have S-Video built-in. The disadvantages are that it's clumsy, there is no way to pause a game (unless you get the 4X BIOS), and it's a pain in the ass to swap cartridges because they're really tight and nowhere near as easy to change as my AES system was. By contrast, if I had an AES system, I would have it modded for S-Video and buy a Phantom-1 to play my MVS carts. Heck, my MVS board doesn't support stereo sound through the JAMMA harness so all I have is crappy mono from the built-in speaker.

Sometimes I wish I still had my old AES system from way back when. I honestly think I would prefer an S-Video modded AES system with Phantom-1 to play my MVS carts on, but the setup I have works just fine.

 

[Winston Goh]

Originally posted by Zizzer:
<strong>I have always felt kind of unsatisfied with having to buy cheaper MVS stuff because I couldn't afford the AES carts or system. It's starting to change now that I am selling off lots of my MVS items to buy AES carts and a system though.

Mike</strong><hr></blockquote>

Wow...you want 2 systems??