Wo-Long: Fallen Dynasty (Nioh/Dark Souls/Sekiro Clone with Co-Op) by Team Ninja

[Lagduf]

Demo is available now and the game will launch on Gamepass. Anyone playing the demo?

So far this is a straight up Souls-clone, even down to how items on the ground are displayed. It's way faster and I think more in vein of Sekiro: Shadows Die Twice.

I have not played Sekiro: Shadows Die Twice (because I'm a bitch), so someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I think this game attempts to emulate the combat (at least the boss encounters...?) of that game.In Wo Long, at least with the first boss I've fought in the demo you wear down a bosses "spirit" by maintaining attacks against them, but also through a dodge/parry mechanic that is called "Deflect." The deflect mechanic is really quite generous when you get the hang of it, but it seems it's weapon based so certain weapons are easier or harder to deflect with. When you successfully deflect a regular attack you build up spirit, however, when you deflect a critical attack (usually longer wind-up and the enemy glows red) you gain a lot of spirit and the enemies total spirt bar is decreased as well. You can also block regular attacks, which lowers your spirit, but you can't block a critical attack. Anyway, when the enemies spirit bar gets filled up they are basically stunned for a short duration and you can essentially unleash a "fatal" attack (like a backstab) that will knock off a ton of the bosses HP and let you get in a few regular attacks. Then there spirit resets and you'r right back to it.

The same can happen to you, if your spirit is reduced to it's negative maximum you'll be stunned and enemies can unleash huge hits on you.

You use spirits to do "spirit attacks" which are like heavy attacks. You use spirit to perform "martial arts" which are like Weapon Arts in Dark Souls/Elden Ring and are specific to the weapon your wielding. You also have some magic attacks that require spirit to cast. Everything from a fireball, to a poison spell, to utility spells that buff defense or give you HP on hit. You can only have four spells equipped at a time.

Ive just unlocked co-op in the demo so once my friend beats the first boss I'll try that out and see how it is. So far it seems like an enjoyable Souls clone, and with it being "free" on gamepass I'm sure to give it a decent shake.

The game appears to be based on Chinese Mythology and taking place sometime in the second century AD, but like most Westerners I don't know jack shit about our Chinese friends.

 

[jro]

Appears to be mostly based off of Nioh from what I can tell, which is good. Nioh is a much better base than Sekiro at least IMO, as S is pretty rigid and supports one play style vs Nioh which is a ton.

To be fair I don't really like Sekiro much, I'd say it's the worst of the From games so I'm hoping this stays with their own stuff. I pretty much adore both Nioh 1 and 2 though so iterating on this would be very welcome.

Okay kind of a silly thing but for games I really wanna play I stay away from any demos. Don't want to spoil any changes or balance tweaks generally but... fine give me an upgrade point in the game and I'm sold.

 

[Lagduf]

I have not played Nioh, but I see it's the same dev so that makes sense.

So far I've unlocked at least 10 different weapons though some with similar styles (ie straight swords) but their "martial arts" have all been different. I've noticed you can get the same item dropped and it can be a higher tier or have different abilities on it. Not quite Diablo levels of RNG loot, but just a little.

I think the game is complete, it comes out March 3, and all your progress in the demo carries over to the full game.

So far I'm liking this game. It appears it's designed to be played in co-op as you have an NPC follower after you beat the first boss. I think you can swap out the follower with a real player and there is some kind of resurection mechanic if you fall in battle, though I think only between real players.

The deflect timing is pretty loose, nowhere near as precision as in even Dark Souls, which I'm okay with because I suck at shit like this usually. I had the parry timing down to a T in DS1 and when they changed it in DS2 I didn't even bother. Same in Elden Ring since they added shield counter attacks. Pretty satisfying to deflect every attack from a boss after previously he has killed you in 5 seconds flat before you learned his attack pattern. And certainly it seems like the intended way to deal damage to a boss is via deflecting their critical attacks to lower their spirit gauge to get those fatal hits off.

So far the level design seems to be that you're plunked in to a fairly linear stage, with some shortcuts available ala Dark Souls. There are "battle flags" you rest at, which are bonfires and when you go in to a level you find out how many there are. There are also these lesser flags that you raise which increase a stat you have called Morale. Morale appears to be a per stage stat, and starts at zero and then increases. It appears to determine how much damage you take and receive on enemies based on their morale (the larger the gap the tougher/weaker an enemy will be.) When you die you do lose morale, however, depending on how many Battle Flags and lesser flags you raise you can't go below a certain level. When you do die the enemy who killed you gets a bump in morale the next time you go to fight him. Kind of neat.

One other difference so far between the Souls games is that while you do have souls (Qi) those appear only to be used to level up and you actually purchase items using money, called copper.

You also get basically a Super though this one appears to be a spirit beast. It looks like you acquire multiple and can change them at bonfires. The first one isn't the coolest thing ever, but I'm looking forward to seeing what else is in the game.

I edited the thread title to put "Nioh" clone.

 

[Lagduf]

Did the second stage co-op with my friend and it was pretty fun. Combat's definitely different with another human player, lol, kind of more spammy than deliberate when you're by yourself but we still had a lot of fun. I guess the game actually supports up to three players, and I'm interested to learn more about the NPC follower system.

We ran through the first level also, still fun, and still a couple enemies that are tricky.

I can see people not being able to get past the first stage and crying about the difficulty.

 

[Lagduf]

Enjoying the game so far.

The level structure is mostly linear with some branches, loop backs, and shortcuts. Reminds me a bit of Star Wars: Jedi Fallen Order in that regard.

Co-Op has been seemless.

Apparently the game has an invasion mechanic. My friend and I got invaded but quickly dispatched the invader, lol. I doubt a 2v1 will ever be fair in this game.

 

[Neo Alec]

Same people as Nioh.

I played the demo, got stuck on the first boss. It's addictive to keep retrying, but these Souls games just aren't for me. I don't have time to play games like this.

 

[kernow]

 

[ggallegos1]

Potentially dumb question. Is this local co-op?

 

[HornheaDD]

Hadn't heard of this, but I did like Nioh.

Im on the "sekiro was better" side of things, but Nioh was pretty good. Never played the 2nd one. i"ll check out the demo.

 

[Lagduf]

Potentially dumb question. Is this local co-op?

No.

 

[Lagduf]

Same people as Nioh.

I played the demo, got stuck on the first boss. It's addictive to keep retrying, but these Souls games just aren't for me. I don't have time to play games like this.

He’s the hardest boss until you get to like level 39.

 

[Neo Alec]

He’s the hardest boss until you get to like level 39.

Nice way to demo a game.

 

[Lagduf]

Nice way to demo a game.

Honestly I think they went the Dark Souls 3 route where the first boss is challenging if you don’t know what to do.

He’s also the only two phase boss I fought until one I just did, but it was more of a gimmick/cinematic boss fight and probably the easiest one in the game.

So yeah weird choice. The 2nd stage of the demo is a pretty good level.

 

[jro]

'K, right now stuck as fuck on Liang, getting a bit annoyed as noted. That's just genuinely bad game design figuring that you'll run 90 percent of your players off and hope that the rest stick around and don't slit their wrists. Nioh 1 and 2 are both excellent, on par with proper From stuff, but this is not there. It's too chaotic for skilled play to factor in, a slightly dumb mechanic being forced into the game where it shouldn't be, I dunno, just, not a fan.

Re-thinking my stance on not playing demos.

Not completely quitting due to the Gamepass factor but I'm very, very much underwhelmed here. Kinda intertesting how Team Ninja and Tecmo knew that they should cut a GP deal on this one.

Edit who am I kidding this is not good. Wanted Dead was a better Itagaki ghost game.

More power to you anyone who can get over this, but I fucking hate it I think.

edit: I've finished Sekiro with the best ending and this is NOT that. I absolutely do not like Sekiro but it's better than this trash.

 

[terry.330]

Wanted Dead was a better Itagaki ghost game.

That is something I actually want to play. Good old PS2 era throwback Japanese jank that knows it's jank.

 

[Lagduf]

'K, right now stuck as fuck on Liang, getting a bit annoyed as noted. That's just genuinely bad game design figuring that you'll run 90 percent of your players off and hope that the rest stick around and don't slit their wrists. Nioh 1 and 2 are both excellent, on par with proper From stuff, but this is not there. It's too chaotic for skilled play to factor in, a slightly dumb mechanic being forced into the game where it shouldn't be, I dunno, just, not a fan.

Re-thinking my stance on not playing demos.

Not completely quitting due to the Gamepass factor but I'm very, very much underwhelmed here. Kinda intertesting how Team Ninja and Tecmo knew that they should cut a GP deal on this one.

Edit who am I kidding this is not good. Wanted Dead was a better Itagaki ghost game.

More power to you anyone who can get over this, but I fucking hate it I think.

edit: I've finished Sekiro with the best ending and this is NOT that. I absolutely do not like Sekiro but it's better than this trash.

Is Liang the first boss?

I haven't beat the game yet, but am getting closer, and overall I'd agree that this is no masterpiece.

I wouldn't pay full price for it and...frankly I'm only playing it because it's co-op.

it's like a 7/10 or low 8/10.

It's definitely less of a Souls game and more of a linear action game with some nods to Souls style games. I wouldn't actually call it a Souls-like.

I am probably enjoying this more than I should because it's Soulsish enough to satisfy that itch but also has real co-op and not "help for a bit" enigmatic "co-op" that From's games always have (don't get me wrong - I like that style and do interact with it - but I wanted to explore entire dungeons with my friend in Elden Ring.)

 

[max 330 mega]

Is Liang the first boss?

I haven't beat the game yet, but am getting closer, and overall I'd agree that this is no masterpiece.

I wouldn't pay full price for it and...frankly I'm only playing it because it's co-op.

it's like a 7/10 or low 8/10.

It's definitely less of a Souls game and more of a linear action game with some nods to Souls style games. I wouldn't actually call it a Souls-like.

I am probably enjoying this more than I should because it's Soulsish enough to satisfy that itch but also has real co-op and not "help for a bit" enigmatic "co-op" that From's games always have (don't get me wrong - I like that style and do interact with it - but I wanted to explore entire dungeons with my friend in Elden Ring.)

Don’t be coy, who’s your new boyfriend?

 

[jro]

Yes, Liang is the first boss, and he's maybe the steepest skill-check I've seen in the entire genre, hell even Genichiro doesn't show up in Sekiro until about halfway.

Just beat him. Took me, I dunno, 25 tries? Like @Lagduf said, it's not really a proper souls-like even moreso than, say Sekiro (which is by far my least favorite From game) than it is a game that shares some design traits and requires a similar commitment from the player, though it's much different in this (also in Sekiro to some extent, though it's lessened there due to the stealth mechanics).

As I've seen noted in various threads on reddit, a lot of From/Nioh veterans don't like WL and suck balls at it since it's about timing parries and not about spacing. People can obviously learn to play both but I think, myself included, a lot of people used to From/Nioh had inaccurate expectations for WL.

So apparently after Liang the game opens up a lot, so now I'm cautiously stoked to see how it goes.

Sheesh, though, that Liang fight. Achievement rate for finishing it is at about 33% on Xbox right now, which is usually closer to the mark for finishing the entire game in From/Nioh. So it's certainly kicking people's asses. I get the idea of a skill check but I'm not sure putting one so early makes sense, seems like it will drive off a lot of players before they even start the game basically. The smaller parry timing window combined with Liang's ability to string them together makes it so one mistake can crush the player so fast, it's kind of jarring. Honestly, in all of Bloodborne (same director, I think actually?), the only comparable fight is Orphan, IMO, which, just, c'mon.

Edit so now I'm stuck on the second boss, this is just shit game design. Make one mistake in a missed parry and you're pretty much done. One miss and it fucking kills you guaranteed, glad MS realized they should do this on GP instead of getting countless refunds. Stranger of Paradise sucked, but this is somehow even worse, fuck this dev. Nioh cred is over, now your games just suck.

Rant over this game still sucks and so does the dev now apparently given their recent pedigree.

Edit again can we please make sure parry-souls does not become a thing? Sekiro sucked balls and WL is somehow even worse can't wait to see what those dumb fucking devs that made the space one that I can't even remember will come up with.

Edit... A good boss run in this feels entirely like luck, not skill. Bad. Seriously, why in the hell did the dev team think they should make a bad Sekiro instead of doing what they were really fing good at?

 

[Lagduf]

Make sure you're not at the higher equipment burden (percentage in yellow.) It's really difficult to deflect at that equip burden.

The monkey boss initially killed me a lot, but I probably played that 2nd demo level solo like 5 times before full release and eventually got to where I could absolutely crush it and deflect all his attacks. The deflect timing really is pretty generous.

As far as skill versus luck I found one of the frustrating mechanics was that to wear down the bosses you really do need to deflect one or more of their critical attacks (glowing red attack) otherwise it's just a real damn slog to lower their spirit and get a fatal strike. I felt on a few bosses that they wouldn't critical attack enough, or they'd do it when I was in some animation I couldn't cancel out of. So while you do need to attack a part of the game is baiting (or waiting for) enemies to attack you so you can deflect their attacks.

My friend and I did beat the game yesterday. Overall I still enjoyed the game, though a bit of that was running the game with someone else. There are some post game activities including a quasi new game+ where you can get higher tier items.

 

[jro]

Yeah, this is definitely one of those cases where taking a break from a fight and then coming in fresh a few hours later or the next day is helpful, i.e. I'll try to not go on an unhinged rant this time.

I beat the monkey guy tonight on, I dunno, third try or so. It's like you said @Lagduf, my biggest problem toward the end was getting him to do a red attack to land the last hit, and I also was not used to the change-up in the second half of the fight with the double-reds and the rock throwing so that caught me a few times. Finally got it though.

Fengxhi (or whatever the boar is called) completely smashed me the first handful of times I tried him so then I stopped using the fire magic and just saved spirit for defense and it went a lot better, at least dying a bunch from that boss onward is recharging your Divine Beast a bit each time so I had that ready when he got down to maybe 20% life and used it to finish him. That fight, in particular, made me a bit annoyed at having deflect and dodge both on the same button since I would accidentally dodge back on the gore move instead of deflect sometimes, finally made sure to take my thumb completely off the stick when he wound up for that and did better.

Overall, I think I have a little better handle on it now and should be able to get through alright. It does definitely have that one-more-try-one-more-try-YES serotonin/endorphin kick that the best soulslikes do, gotta give it that.

How long did it take you to finish it? And does wizardry stay useless the whole game? I have like 5 or 6 spells but using them on bosses seems like a much worse way to spend spirit than blocking and deflecting.

One last random comment - I swear the load times on this have to be some of the longest there are on current gen. 25-30 seconds on Series X I'd guess, can't imagine what they must be on last-gen.

Edit: I have equip burden at 68% I think it is, I assume that's medium at worst? The armor that drops from the monkey boss weighed 2/3 of my entire equipment set on its own when I looked at it lol.

 

[HornheaDD]

Tried this game out, and its not too bad but the loading kinda kills the vibe for me. Dying at the first boss you get sent back to the check point after a lengthy load (at least on XBOne), and then when you get back to the arena and it has to do another 5 second or so load. You die, and repeat those two loads.

I finally beat his first phase, and I dont know why I was surprised that there was a second phase, that's basically how these things go, but after that I was like I don't really have the energy to learn a whole new boss' phase. I had it on Gamepass so I might come back to it down the line but for now I'm good.

 

[Lagduf]

Yeah, this is definitely one of those cases where taking a break from a fight and then coming in fresh a few hours later or the next day is helpful, i.e. I'll try to not go on an unhinged rant this time.

I beat the monkey guy tonight on, I dunno, third try or so. It's like you said @Lagduf, my biggest problem toward the end was getting him to do a red attack to land the last hit, and I also was not used to the change-up in the second half of the fight with the double-reds and the rock throwing so that caught me a few times. Finally got it though.

Fengxhi (or whatever the boar is called) completely smashed me the first handful of times I tried him so then I stopped using the fire magic and just saved spirit for defense and it went a lot better, at least dying a bunch from that boss onward is recharging your Divine Beast a bit each time so I had that ready when he got down to maybe 20% life and used it to finish him. That fight, in particular, made me a bit annoyed at having deflect and dodge both on the same button since I would accidentally dodge back on the gore move instead of deflect sometimes, finally made sure to take my thumb completely off the stick when he wound up for that and did better.

Overall, I think I have a little better handle on it now and should be able to get through alright. It does definitely have that one-more-try-one-more-try-YES serotonin/endorphin kick that the best soulslikes do, gotta give it that.

How long did it take you to finish it? And does wizardry stay useless the whole game? I have like 5 or 6 spells but using them on bosses seems like a much worse way to spend spirit than blocking and deflecting.

One last random comment - I swear the load times on this have to be some of the longest there are on current gen. 25-30 seconds on Series X I'd guess, can't imagine what they must be on last-gen.

Edit: I have equip burden at 68% I think it is, I assume that's medium at worst? The armor that drops from the monkey boss weighed 2/3 of my entire equipment set on its own when I looked at it lol.

Yeah that's medium load (or whatever it's called). I think 70% is when its get in to "fat roll."

There is a Wizardry spell that increases the rate at which your Divine Beast recharges and I think that one is pretty OP.
As far as I saw magic was worthless except as utility (increase damage/elemental attacks/heal on attack/increased defense/etc.) But I know people have made magic builds and posted them on YouTube.

Not sure how long it took. Me and my friend played the game pretty much a few hours every day since release.

I agree that the initial load for a level can be long (upwards of 30s) - I heard people were saying the reload after death was really long - but I counted a number of times and for me it was 3-4 seconds.

I heard people were saying the reload after death was really long - but I counted a number of times and it was 3-4 seconds.Tried this game out, and its not too bad but the loading kinda kills the vibe for me. Dying at the first boss you get sent back to the check point after a lengthy load (at least on XBOne), and then when you get back to the arena and it has to do another 5 second or so load. You die, and repeat those two loads.

I finally beat his first phase, and I dont know why I was surprised that there was a second phase, that's basically how these things go, but after that I was like I don't really have the energy to learn a whole new boss' phase. I had it on Gamepass so I might come back to it down the line but for now I'm good.

One thing that can be helpful for you and @jro if you choose to play is you can hold block and also try to deflect. So say you hold block and then attempt to deflect an attack - if you deflect to late, you'll just get hit - but when you block you don't really take damage (unless it's a critical attack.) There are a few bosses where blocking is helpful.

That boss is one of the very few with a second phase.

I'm not sure why they went so hard on this first boss lol. Also, you beat the second phase in a gimmicky way - it will prompt you to press Y + B (O +Triangle) and you'll summon a Divine Beast to defeat it. I know a lot of people have missed the prompt.

The first phase I found you could stun lock the boss, the second phase you have to play slow/deflect the critical attacks.

 

[Lagduf]

Either way this game was just something to play before VALHEIM releases on Xbox on 3/14.

 

[jro]

This game man, it's something else. Couldn't dent Zhang Jiao the first ten tries then beat him without taking a hit. TILTED to F YES in record time seems the norm here. I think that's a huge compliment?

edit apparently I'm exactly the opposite of most players for this kinda liking running around and clearing levels like in Nioh then going fuk when it comes to time to fight the bosses.

 

[jro]

Just beat Baishe. At this point, the game IMO is about 70/30 Nioh 2/Sekiro, though those Nioh 2 parts are what's important. Nioh 2's Ki Burst is basically just (over)extended in this to match up with Sekiro-style gameplay. It's actually pretty helpful for me (and I'd guess most Nioh vets) to think of the counters that way instead of like in Sekiro, enemy shows a tell you hit the counter, that's it. Sekiro is, straight up, more about if you can see where the counters are in swordplay with zero help at least in the big boss fights.

That's what's especially odd in comparing them. Nioh always allowed for a varied build (ie magic was super useful), WL does not in the slightest. Sekiro has much more variety in useful gameplay styles than originally presented due to the tools that you can use, makes any and up to the final boss not reliant on parrying.

I definitely like the game's strict code to what it's trying to be in one way, but damned if that doesn't also get irritating much of the time as well. Who am I kidding, I'm gonna keep burning hours on this until it's fucking done like it or not.