The bad battery thread

Hairy Otter

Neo Bubble Buster
I contacted the seller yesterday to work something out; I'd rather just fix it and be done.
but what's a fair price for a board with this kind of damage?
Is the board running elseways, or has it other issues as well?
I've had boards that looked worse, but run just fine after cleaning and doing a battery mod.

I hunt down and bridge broken track and re-flow ugly looking legs (like on the NEO-ZMC2 in your picture) with plenty of "no clean" flux, and clean the whole area with rubbing alcohol. I don't know if this is the best way to do this, but my first repair three years ago is stil up and running and I hope it will be for a long time.
If anybody has a better way of cleaning I'm happy to hear it.
 

xsq

Thou Shalt Not, Question Rot.,
does it matter what kind of vinegar I use? I don't have any regular white.
DON'T USE VINEGAR. [I know I posted about doing just that before - but I know better now.]

Do as follows:
1. Try to clean the spot as much as you can with a dry cloth and then some rubbing alcohol.
2. Mix baking soda with some water to a paste and apply it to the damaged parts with a toothbrush.
3. Let it sit for a short while (20-30 Min.).
4. Clean with distilled/demineralized water.
5. Dry the board. (Hand-dry with a clean and soft cotton cloth. Easiest way to make sure the board is really really dry is heating your oven to ca. 70ーC, then turn it off (!) and put the PCB inside over night.)

Here's why: Mixing an acid (vinegar) with a base (leakage) could lead to a chemical reaction that will further damage your board. Also the proportions of battery leak to vinegar would have to be perfect to really neutralize the leakage and not leave some of the vinegar on the board that will eat through the metal even faster. Backing soda (sodium bicarbonate) is amphoteric, so it will neutralize bases and acids.

Thanks to the people schooling me on this. Read further here and here.



Is the board running elseways, or has it other issues as well?
I've had boards that looked worse, but run just fine after cleaning and doing a battery mod.
this.
 

bartre

Astra Superstar
Is the board running elseways, or has it other issues as well?
I've had boards that looked worse, but run just fine after cleaning and doing a battery mod.

I hunt down and bridge broken track and re-flow ugly looking legs (like on the NEO-ZMC2 in your picture) with plenty of "no clean" flux, and clean the whole area with rubbing alcohol. I don't know if this is the best way to do this, but my first repair three years ago is stil up and running and I hope it will be for a long time.
If anybody has a better way of cleaning I'm happy to hear it.

Well there's some graphical fuckery.
But as far as I know, that could also be caused by a loose/dirty cart slot.

To repair the traces, should I run wires, or is it better to just scrape the mask and flow some solder?
 

xsq

Thou Shalt Not, Question Rot.,
To repair the traces, should I run wires, or is it better to just scrape the mask and flow some solder?
I would run wires and connect the components directly (and not try to just bridge the broken part of the trace(s)). Should be less work and surer to succeed.
 

pepelegit

Pleasure Goal
Man, it's good to be back, and what a fantastic thread. I think I completely missed this one when I was previously active on here, but as I'm preparing to spend more time with the Neo, I got to thinking I should look into tidying it up a bit (some slots work better than others, but it mostly just needs a good cleaning). Now I know what I'll be checking on first!
 

CharlieBronson

Twinkle Star Sprite
DON'T USE VINEGAR. [I know I posted about doing just that before - but I know better now.]

Do as follows:
1. Try to clean the spot as much as you can with a dry cloth and then some rubbing alcohol.
2. Mix baking soda with some water to a paste and apply it to the damaged parts with a toothbrush.
3. Let it sit for a short while (20-30 Min.).
4. Clean with distilled/demineralized water.
5. Dry the board. (Hand-dry with a clean and soft cotton cloth. Easiest way to make sure the board is really really dry is heating your oven to ca. 70ーC, then turn it off (!) and put the PCB inside over night.)

Here's why: Mixing an acid (vinegar) with a base (leakage) could lead to a chemical reaction that will further damage your board. Also the proportions of battery leak to vinegar would have to be perfect to really neutralize the leakage and not leave some of the vinegar on the board that will eat through the metal even faster. Backing soda (sodium bicarbonate) is amphoteric, so it will neutralize bases and acids.

Thanks to the people schooling me on this. Read further here and here.




this.

thanks for this xsq. just starting to clean for the first time and this helps alot!
 

gamelife00

Rugal's Thug
Hi all,i have an MV-1C board with the vertical battery Holder. How easy are these ones to swap out, it's a coin type. So is it a case of just swapping for a new one? If so what battery would be suitable. Thanks
 

MobiusStripTech

Mr. Big's Thug
Hi all,i have an MV-1C board with the vertical battery Holder. How easy are these ones to swap out, it's a coin type. So is it a case of just swapping for a new one? If so what battery would be suitable. Thanks

A lot of people opt to remove the charging circuit and switch to a standard CR2032 and a basic coin cell socket. I opted for an SMD coin cell socket and to still use the LR2032 rechargeable battery personally.
 

8bitForLife

Crazed MVS Addict
A lot of people opt to remove the charging circuit and switch to a standard CR2032 and a basic coin cell socket. I opted for an SMD coin cell socket and to still use the LR2032 rechargeable battery personally.
Would doing this be as easy as replacing batteries in snes carts or putting a socket in a dreamcast for easy battery removal?
 

MobiusStripTech

Mr. Big's Thug
Essentially. The level of difficulty just depends on the socket you intend to install and your skills. The MV1C has a non-standard pin layout which basically means you probably won't find a direct fit socket. In most cases you can attach a component lead to the socket pins and connect those to the original solder points or even alternative points.

Overall it really isn't difficult to do this though.
 

nerger

Timid Neo Newbie
I have a MVS4FS board that had a dead battery.

I removed it and replaced it with a CR2032 holder, i also followed HairyOtters guide to disable the charging circuit

mv4fs-battery-mod.jpg


All seems to be working, but when I use a UniBios the games all crash on the screen that shows you the moves. Anyone any ideas on what could be causing it or how I can debug it?
 

MobiusStripTech

Mr. Big's Thug
I have a MVS4FS board that had a dead battery.

I removed it and replaced it with a CR2032 holder, i also followed HairyOtters guide to disable the charging circuit

mv4fs-battery-mod.jpg


All seems to be working, but when I use a UniBios the games all crash on the screen that shows you the moves. Anyone any ideas on what could be causing it or how I can debug it?

Does it still crash with a regular bios? Does it crash if you remove the battery?
 

nerger

Timid Neo Newbie
Does it still crash with a regular bios? Does it crash if you remove the battery?

Doesn't crash with the regular bios installed, only happens with UniBios

I am not with the board currently but will check if it still happens with the battery removed and report back
 

nerger

Timid Neo Newbie
Reviving this thread from the dead! I have tried it without the battery installed and all works well.
 

Hairy Otter

Neo Bubble Buster
Reviving this thread from the dead! I have tried it without the battery installed and all works well.
This thread is still useful so the revive is permitted I think.
The board will work fine without the battery, only it can't keep its RAM operational during power off.
First it doesn't keep track of game time. This is for most of us not that important.
The other thing it doesn't "remember" the soft DIP's. These can influence the difficulty level, the continu option, demo sound etc...
These DIP settings are game related.
Also Hi-scores are stored in this RAM.
If you don't need these options you are fine without the battery, else you can put in a 2032 holder (don't forget to disable the loading circuit) or a rechargeable battery.
 

nerger

Timid Neo Newbie
This thread is still useful so the revive is permitted I think.
The board will work fine without the battery, only it can't keep its RAM operational during power off.
First it doesn't keep track of game time. This is for most of us not that important.
The other thing it doesn't "remember" the soft DIP's. These can influence the difficulty level, the continu option, demo sound etc...
These DIP settings are game related.
Also Hi-scores are stored in this RAM.
If you don't need these options you are fine without the battery, else you can put in a 2032 holder (don't forget to disable the loading circuit) or a rechargeable battery.

Maybe some crossed wires here!

I followed your guide on disabling the charging circuit and have installed a 2032 holder. But with a UniBios installed and a battery then it crashes on the game instructions screen.

It seems that something in the way the charging circuit is disabled does not agree with the unibios.

Do you have unibios in your board?
 

nerger

Timid Neo Newbie
Maybe some crossed wires here!

I followed your guide on disabling the charging circuit and have installed a 2032 holder. But with a UniBios installed and a battery then it crashes on the game instructions screen.

It seems that something in the way the charging circuit is disabled does not agree with the unibios.

Do you have unibios in your board?

I have just rechecked my soldering and tidied things up, on reassembling all seems to be working correctly with a battery installed and the unibios now

If I take out the battery and measure across the terminals then I get 0.3v when the board is powered up, does sound like the charging curcuit is disabled correctly?
 

Hairy Otter

Neo Bubble Buster
If I take out the battery and measure across the terminals then I get 0.3v when the board is powered up, does sound like the charging curcuit is disabled correctly?

I just measured my board, I only have 0.03v even if it is turned off. But I have this on my meter if it isn't connected as well.
Can you put up a picture from your board, the one in your post looks a lot like mine. Both front and back please, the .3v isn't that much but I think the battery doesn't like this.

btw. sorry for skipping your previous posts.
 

nerger

Timid Neo Newbie
Have just done some more testing. The issue seems to be coming from the the 470u capacitor.

It is sending 0.3v to the battery, after the board is switched off it takes ages to discharge so is still measuing 0.3v even with power off.

If you short the cap after turning the board off then you get 0v at the battery.

I have not got a working camera with me at the minute so I can't take any pics, but wiring is exactly as your example.

I just measured my board, I only have 0.03v even if it is turned off. But I have this on my meter if it isn't connected as well.
Can you put up a picture from your board, the one in your post looks a lot like mine. Both front and back please, the .3v isn't that much but I think the battery doesn't like this.

btw. sorry for skipping your previous posts.
 

nerger

Timid Neo Newbie
Created an overlay image of the 2 sides of an MV4FS board, though it might help make things clearer...

merged.jpg
 

Hairy Otter

Neo Bubble Buster
Created an overlay image of the 2 sides of an MV4FS board, though it might help make things clearer...
this image is not made from your board, I think. The battery is removed but the charging circuit is still there.

If the voltage is coming from the capacitor it seems to me the diode isn't doing its job. Did you exchange the zener with the diode?
 

Whippy

Banned
This is somewhat related, and my question did not require a separate thread.

I have a mv-1c that I got with the battery removed. I was able to use a LIR2032 & battery holder to maintain the clock/region. The long and short of it was that the battery either failed, or due to me putting it in upside down it died (negative to positive/I got wires crossed). I don't know which, or how to test, but I figured I burned up something on the board (I am no electronics guy). Today I got a ML2032, and installed it and everything seems good.

My question: Does the MVS recharge a dead battery, or is this what my problem was? Is there another problem I should be looking for?
 

Hairy Otter

Neo Bubble Buster
This is somewhat related, and my question did not require a separate thread.

I have a mv-1c that I got with the battery removed. I was able to use a LIR2032 & battery holder to maintain the clock/region. The long and short of it was that the battery either failed, or due to me putting it in upside down it died (negative to positive/I got wires crossed). I don't know which, or how to test, but I figured I burned up something on the board (I am no electronics guy). Today I got a ML2032, and installed it and everything seems good.

My question: Does the MVS recharge a dead battery, or is this what my problem was? Is there another problem I should be looking for?
Your problem is a bit confusing.
Answer on your question, MVS does charge its battery, but by dead I hope you mean empty. There can be several problems you can look for:
First, an mv-1c seems to consume a lot of battery power when not powered.
Second, all MVS boards are designed to be powered on for more than half a day, every day. The battery only needs to hold for the night. A rechargeable battery kan take up to 8 hours. I don't know what battery is used on an original mv-1c board, but a LIR2032 is a li-ion battery. Those things need a special loading circuit. They can explode when charged wrong.
 

Whippy

Banned
Your problem is a bit confusing.
Answer on your question, MVS does charge its battery, but by dead I hope you mean empty. There can be several problems you can look for:
First, an mv-1c seems to consume a lot of battery power when not powered.
Second, all MVS boards are designed to be powered on for more than half a day, every day. The battery only needs to hold for the night. A rechargeable battery kan take up to 8 hours. I don't know what battery is used on an original mv-1c board, but a LIR2032 is a li-ion battery. Those things need a special loading circuit. They can explode when charged wrong.

By dead, I mean that the battery is reading 0.0 volts. The LIR2032 was purchased with advice from this forum (possibly this thread/I followed an ebay link) where there was a reference to the dreamcast battery replacement mod....I got the LIR2032 & battery holder. I would have to look, but I think it has been nearly 2 months since I added the LIR2032. At one point last week I left the unit on overnight, and it didn't seem to charge, but I didn't test it aside from waking up, turning the system off, than back on only to find that it didn't save my region/time. Perhaps it never charged, and was improper for the system?

I am also realistic that the battery does next to nothing on the 1c board, as it doesn't save high scores that I can tell.

The battery I replaced it with was a ML2032, and everything seems to be working again when it comes to time/date/region. Which brings me to another question. Is the ML2032 the proper rechargeable battery to use in a 1c with the charging circuitry still in place?

Thanks again for your response!
 
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Hairy Otter

Neo Bubble Buster
Is the ML2032 the proper rechargeable battery to use in a 1c with the charging circuitry still in place?
Alas, the MV-1c is the only board that is missing from my collection. So i don't know what battery is native to this board.

A quick google learned me, the battery chemistry of both are very different.
The LiR is a 3.6v battery This battery is rechargeable, however a protective circuit is absolutely necessary due to the very high energy density of this type of cell. Since the mv-1c is a very simplistic board I don't think they over designed the loading circuit.
The ML is a 3v battery with the same physical dimensions but with less stringent requirements in terms of loading.
So maybe an other member can shed some light on the type of battery used on an MV-1c or even measure the loading voltage of it.
But in my experience a rechargeable battery is not the best way to go in HUO machine, It takes to long to fully charge them in a save way and the charge doesn't hold that long. As I said before, those machines where build to have more running time then rest. And when they where stored between two locations, no one minded if the memory got lost, each location needed new bookkeeping and preferred there own settings.
 

boogieman

Timid Neo Newbie
I am getting an MV-1B and am debating replacing the battery with a rechargeable or coin cell with battery mod. Would this LINK be a suitable replacement? I know it's 3.7V but am curious if that would cause issue. I've used this very battery pack on a Dreamcast, which too has a 3v rechargeable battery. It's 1000mah so it will last a long time. My DC charges overnight and I've turned it on after 6 months of not playing after a move and it still held the system clock, so for DC at least they are a great option. Anyway, I'm just curious if anyone has experimented with 3.7V LI PO batteries as they are pretty widely used in other electronics now.
 

NexusX

Fio's Quartermaster
I am getting an MV-1B and am debating replacing the battery with a rechargeable or coin cell with battery mod.

The 1B already has a soldered coin cell in it. So the chances are slim it is going to explode and damage your board. There are a few battery mod kits for it though.
Here is one by Neo Jamma. Lets you mount it vertical or horizontal.

https://imgur.com/a/4c3AkpA
 

boogieman

Timid Neo Newbie
The 1B already has a soldered coin cell in it. So the chances are slim it is going to explode and damage your board. There are a few battery mod kits for it though.
Here is one by Neo Jamma. Lets you mount it vertical or horizontal.

https://imgur.com/a/4c3AkpA

Oh, nice, I've been poking around on Neo Jamma but somehow missed that, It will be nice to deal with the spacing issue without having to rig something up. I'll probably go this route but still curious about the 3.7V vs. 3V.
 

NexusX

Fio's Quartermaster
Just reminding everyone to check those old original batteries if they are still on any of your boards.
 

ropbasuel

Timid Neo Newbie
Hi all,

I have 2 MVS MV1A boards, both still with the original battery. To prevent battery leakage I am thinking on changing the battery to other rechargeable one, since I've read some people that changed to one common CR2032 (removing the charging circuit) and that lead to these batteries to drain out in a couple of days (http://www.neo-geo.com/forums/showthread.php?266704-MV1-A-amp-MV1-FZ-battery-mod).

So here I ask you one question:

Which is better for this replacement, ML2032 or LIR2032? I've read opinions of people saying that ML2032 is better and others saying LIR2032 is the one for this board.

Can someone help me out?

Thanks
 

TyMiles2012

Timid Neo Newbie
Hi all,

I have 2 MVS MV1A boards, both still with the original battery. To prevent battery leakage I am thinking on changing the battery to other rechargeable one, since I've read some people that changed to one common CR2032 (removing the charging circuit) and that lead to these batteries to drain out in a couple of days (http://www.neo-geo.com/forums/showthread.php?266704-MV1-A-amp-MV1-FZ-battery-mod).

So here I ask you one question:

Which is better for this replacement, ML2032 or LIR2032? I've read opinions of people saying that ML2032 is better and others saying LIR2032 is the one for this board.

Can someone help me out?

Thanks

So the fact that CR2032's lasting only a few days isn't an issue on my part... That's a huge shame since I've done that mod already so unless there's a way to restore the charging circuit without the original components, I'm out of luck then.
 

ropbasuel

Timid Neo Newbie
So the fact that CR2032's lasting only a few days isn't an issue on my part... That's a huge shame since I've done that mod already so unless there's a way to restore the charging circuit without the original components, I'm out of luck then.

No, unfortunately (or not), this is an issue I have found a lot when searching for this subject.
I have found here in the forum, as well as on some reddit posts, specially on the MV1A board that this happens very often. The battery mod keeps draining the new battery very fast (don't know why).

That's why I am thinking on instead of removing the charging circuit, to just replace the battery with one rechargeable one (with a socket). I didn't do this replacing mod yet, didn't had much time for that, but I am still with this question on which battery is the most recommended to replace, ML2032 or LIR2032 ?
 

Jonap

Rugal's Thug
A lot of people opt to remove the charging circuit and switch to a standard CR2032 and a basic coin cell socket. I opted for an SMD coin cell socket and to still use the LR2032 rechargeable battery personally.

Seems good option i never see it.
Can you show with pictures and put links for buy the socket and battery? or maybe references?

Thanks!
 

grendelrt

Super Spy Agent
Any idea how many milliamps the charging circuits puts out to the battery when charging on a MVS board?
 

MoriyaMinakata

NEST Puppet
I've replaced my battery years ago with a cordless phone battery, attached with a wire instead of having it sit directly on the board.
In the event the battery leaks, it wouldn't damage it.
 

Jonap

Rugal's Thug
Lir2032 is bad for mvs 1 slot boards? is 3,6v when the stock battery are 3v, i think the perfect fit for this boards are ML2032, but using LIR2032 can cause issues? more cheap and easy to find.
 

lachlan

drunk downunder!, aka. Muff Diver.,
Lir2032 is bad for mvs 1 slot boards? is 3,6v when the stock battery are 3v, i think the perfect fit for this boards are ML2032, but using LIR2032 can cause issues? more cheap and easy to find.

I wonder what the range of voltage the backup ram allows for? an extra 600mv doesn't seem like much, why don't you try it out and let us know? OR disable the recharge circuit and use a non-rechargeable 3V coin cell like a CR2032?
 

Xian Xi

JammaNationX,
I wonder what the range of voltage the backup ram allows for? an extra 600mv doesn't seem like much, why don't you try it out and let us know? OR disable the recharge circuit and use a non-rechargeable 3V coin cell like a CR2032?

Usually 5.5v max but for data retention it usually requires a minimum of 2.0v, I’ve seen some at 1.8v.
 

lachlan

drunk downunder!, aka. Muff Diver.,
I just got this MV1 in from Japan in a lot as not working for $10, not sure why I even bothered...

PXL-20210225-052401542.jpg
 
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