PCM Sound & Stability Fixes Multicarts - 120 in 1, 138 in 1, 161 in 1 and others.

segasonicfan

Camel Slug
Joined
Feb 3, 2006
Posts
514
There's a CPLD on the left hand side (not shown on your photos there) - that does the address decoding for the M1 ROM. The M1 ROM is just above it. I would check all the connectivity out around that area. That CPLD takes 4.3v from the middle of the two diodes which power the board. Look on under side of the PCB where the 2 diodes join - There should be a trace which leads off and is jumpered (probably with a tiny particle of solder) to a trace which goes to a via. Check the connectivity around there to ensure that 4.3v is getting to the CPLD. You could reflow the solder on M1 and that nearby CPLD. I presume you've narrowed it down to this board by swapping the top and bottom boards etc?

Thanks so much for this!! (And the thread in general). I have this exact same issue with my old version 161-in-1 (no sound but else seems working). I did caps, new regulator, etc. but issue remains. Ill try reflowing M1 chip and CPLD but has anyone tried JTAGing that chip? If I could get the code off its not hard to get a new one.

-Segasonicfan
 

DaisyAge

Galford's Armourer
Joined
Jun 10, 2018
Posts
453
segasonicfan your videos are gone as of right now, anywhere I can view them? I really need to fix the sound on my newer 161
 

Finch

Hardened Shock Trooper
10 Year Member
Joined
Jul 14, 2009
Posts
431
segasonicfan your videos are gone as of right now, anywhere I can view them? I really need to fix the sound on my newer 161

Yeah I came here to say that too. I PM'd him, hopefully he can clear it up. As far as I can tell you can also follow these pics. As they were able to do the mods based on segasonicfan's videos before they disappeared.
https://subefotos.com/ver/?facfb216bf788a237937429bdef9a025o.jpg#codigos
https://subefotos.com/ver/?e3b1c3a87c2999360dfc841b33017c3do.jpg#codigos
https://subefotos.com/ver/?fe0c17c89b3e1b9d1f40b2beca21207ao.jpg#codigos
https://subefotos.com/ver/?b63219b5a5edb39634ea971282e545e5o.jpg#codigos
 

GadgetUK

Ace Ghost Pilot
Joined
Sep 27, 2013
Posts
1,321
There are 2 pads on the board designed for those caps on the newer 161 in 1 (C5 and C6 - put 47pF caps there). You might want to add any missing 100nF caps too (eg. underneath the CPLDs). The voltage regulator is optional - one board may use a regulator now, I am not sure. But as people have pointed out, in theory it might be better for the MVS if the cart chips are overvoltaged above 3.3v (via use of the diodes). Personally I've had no problem with any of my carts or MVS systems since I did mods to use 3.3v regulators on those carts. But clamping could cause a failure at some point, so you take a risk either way with the diode / regulator mod imo. What I do know is the carts tend to fail sooner rather than later when left with just the 2 diodes to drop from 5v to ~3.6v. If your 5v is 5.2v, the chips on the cart will get ~3.8v vs the expected 3.3v...
 

Mai_Lover

Dodgeball Yakuza
Joined
Nov 29, 2007
Posts
641
GadgetUK, I have an AES and a Daedalus for use with the MVS carts. I just ordered a 161 in 1 cart yesterday. Way back in this thread someone had asked if there would be any problem with this setup regarding power consumption, etc. There was no follow-up.

Can you verify that it will work with a Daedalus? Also, do these current 161 in 1 carts still need the PCM and regulator mods? Thank you for any advice.
 

GadgetUK

Ace Ghost Pilot
Joined
Sep 27, 2013
Posts
1,321
GadgetUK, I have an AES and a Daedalus for use with the MVS carts. I just ordered a 161 in 1 cart yesterday. Way back in this thread someone had asked if there would be any problem with this setup regarding power consumption, etc. There was no follow-up.

Can you verify that it will work with a Daedalus? Also, do these current 161 in 1 carts still need the PCM and regulator mods? Thank you for any advice.

It should work with a Daedalus as far as I understand - PSU permitting. The two caps can be added to the spaces on the board for them, the regulator mods are optional. Someone suggested that the clamping provided by the 3.3v chips could affect the life of some of the MVS chips (extra current drawn). Personally I don't buy into that as the change from high to low very frequently means there's not a constant current draw, but I am no expert in that area.
 

Mai_Lover

Dodgeball Yakuza
Joined
Nov 29, 2007
Posts
641
It should work with a Daedalus as far as I understand - PSU permitting. The two caps can be added to the spaces on the board for them, the regulator mods are optional. Someone suggested that the clamping provided by the 3.3v chips could affect the life of some of the MVS chips (extra current drawn). Personally I don't buy into that as the change from high to low very frequently means there's not a constant current draw, but I am no expert in that area.

Many thanks for the response. My AES is a Japan model, so I'm not quite sure of the power tolerance. Here in the colonies, it's 120V which should be no problem but amperage and such is what I'm unclear of. Regardless, once the cart arrives I'll go through the paces (check Pulstar, Strikers, etc.) and see whether or not it needs the PCM mod. Cheers.
 

superfry63

Kuroko's Training Dummy
Joined
May 13, 2018
Posts
76
Thanks for posting these links - just confirmed the 161 I got in the mail is version 2 and I am just trying to get everything together for all of the known fixes.

Are the caps in these pics pretty much all that is required for version 2 and maybe the stability fix listed here:

http://www.neo-geo.com/forums/showthread.php?275354-161-in-1-version-2-stability-fix

Again big thanks to GadgetUK for all his work.


Yeah I came here to say that too. I PM'd him, hopefully he can clear it up. As far as I can tell you can also follow these pics. As they were able to do the mods based on segasonicfan's videos before they disappeared.
https://subefotos.com/ver/?facfb216bf788a237937429bdef9a025o.jpg#codigos
https://subefotos.com/ver/?e3b1c3a87c2999360dfc841b33017c3do.jpg#codigos
https://subefotos.com/ver/?fe0c17c89b3e1b9d1f40b2beca21207ao.jpg#codigos
https://subefotos.com/ver/?b63219b5a5edb39634ea971282e545e5o.jpg#codigos
 

MRTjamma

Timid Neo Newbie
Joined
Sep 22, 2018
Posts
6
Edit: Graphical glitches seem to be picky depending on what motherboard is used, my 1 slot MVH displays Top Hunter correctly however still having reset issues with samsho and KOF games
 
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RyuX

Crossed Swords Squire
Joined
Sep 19, 2018
Posts
179
I am soon giving up on my 161 in 1 Cartridge. I barely have a game where it will not give me an illegal instruction (reboot) in the UniBios.
I reflowed everything - cleaned the cartridge with ultrasonic - rinse / repeat - did this many times always with the same result.
At this point I am really thinking I might have a damaged component somewhere.. :(
 

donluca

Ninja Combat Warrior
Joined
Aug 19, 2015
Posts
529
I remember someone said that they reused old ROM chips to store data and that they're very likely to break randomly at some point.

If I had to make a guess, I'd say it's one of those chips which is going bad, either due to bit rot or whatever.
 

GadgetUK

Ace Ghost Pilot
Joined
Sep 27, 2013
Posts
1,321
Yes, they use old pachinko chips as far as I understand. So it can be a bit hit and miss as to whether you get a good cart or a bad cart. ie. You could buy 10 x 161 in 1's and find 50% of them work as they should (with issues in some games which are known), and the other 50% may work for most of the games, or not...
 

Razoola

Divine Hand of the UniBIOS,
Staff member
20 Year Member
Joined
Nov 12, 2002
Posts
4,658
I have a feeling that from both revisions on the MVS version that revision 1 might be a little more stable.
 

RyuX

Crossed Swords Squire
Joined
Sep 19, 2018
Posts
179
I guess I was unlucky then :(
My Pachinko Machine was running 24/7 and was on it's way out when they decided to take the Chips and install them in my 161 in 1 Cart.. meh.
But I got a 138 in 1 which is better anyways (except for the SUB Pcb)
 

segasonicfan

Camel Slug
Joined
Feb 3, 2006
Posts
514
Yeah I came here to say that too. I PM'd him, hopefully he can clear it up. As far as I can tell you can also follow these pics. As they were able to do the mods based on segasonicfan's videos before they disappeared.
https://subefotos.com/ver/?facfb216bf788a237937429bdef9a025o.jpg#codigos
https://subefotos.com/ver/?e3b1c3a87c2999360dfc841b33017c3do.jpg#codigos
https://subefotos.com/ver/?fe0c17c89b3e1b9d1f40b2beca21207ao.jpg#codigos
https://subefotos.com/ver/?b63219b5a5edb39634ea971282e545e5o.jpg#codigos


sorry for not replying, real busy with life problems and not much time for games atm. Yes, put 0.1uf caps where all the spots are on the board, they are bypasses for the MCU / FPGA power rails...
 

RyuX

Crossed Swords Squire
Joined
Sep 19, 2018
Posts
179
Ok since my Cart is totally gone now (the Chips all seem to have a crack) I decided to remove the one that got really hot when turned on and make a photo (for science).

Will not buy a 161 in 1 again.. really disappointed :(
 

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RyuX

Crossed Swords Squire
Joined
Sep 19, 2018
Posts
179
Hey.. also I want to share my 138 in 1 Game List that I formatted for easier reading in PDF
 

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superfry63

Kuroko's Training Dummy
Joined
May 13, 2018
Posts
76
So I was able to apply all the fixes except for the optional ones on my 161 in 1 rev 2(also held off the C3 cap, as someone said it made the audio tinny)

Make sure you do the stability fix of bridging the x2 pins that the 161 in 1 Rev 1 had.

Can confirm it's resolved pretty much everything. The only thing that is still buggy is Puzzle Bobble 1 - some hardcore sound glitches like when you get a combo or the ceiling starts coming down it's pretty brutal.

I think someone mentioned it's due to the ROM they used though.
 

Kujako

Quiz Detective
Joined
Sep 8, 2018
Posts
89
So I was able to apply all the fixes except for the optional ones on my 161 in 1 rev 2(also held off the C3 cap, as someone said it made the audio tinny)

Is there a list of the mods that can be applied to the v2?
 

eLWaN

Timid Neo Newbie
Joined
Oct 20, 2018
Posts
2
Voltage of the caps

There are 2 pads on the board designed for those caps on the newer 161 in 1 (C5 and C6 - put 47pF caps there). You might want to add any missing 100nF caps too (eg. underneath the CPLDs). The voltage regulator is optional - one board may use a regulator now, I am not sure. But as people have pointed out, in theory it might be better for the MVS if the cart chips are overvoltaged above 3.3v (via use of the diodes). Personally I've had no problem with any of my carts or MVS systems since I did mods to use 3.3v regulators on those carts. But clamping could cause a failure at some point, so you take a risk either way with the diode / regulator mod imo. What I do know is the carts tend to fail sooner rather than later when left with just the 2 diodes to drop from 5v to ~3.6v. If your 5v is 5.2v, the chips on the cart will get ~3.8v vs the expected 3.3v...

Hi, I'm pretty new here on the forum. I came here because, as a lot of people, I got issues ith my 161 in 1.

As I don't have any knowledge in caps I wanted to know this :

I bought 47PF (50V) caps. Is it good? Or should I buy some 100 Volt? Or some 500 Volt?

Hope someone will be able to answer me :) :)



I also want to know :

For the stability fix : has the bridge to be done on both sides?
 
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GadgetUK

Ace Ghost Pilot
Joined
Sep 27, 2013
Posts
1,321
47pF 50v caps are fine! Any voltage larger than that and they would be physically too large I think.

Regards the "stability fix" on the newer 161 in 1, it's just those 2 pins that need joining. Connections on the other side are used for different things so don't short those!
 

eLWaN

Timid Neo Newbie
Joined
Oct 20, 2018
Posts
2
Thanks but...

47pF 50v caps are fine! Any voltage larger than that and they would be physically too large I think.

Regards the "stability fix" on the newer 161 in 1, it's just those 2 pins that need joining. Connections on the other side are used for different things so don't short those!


Hi!

Thanks a lot for your answer and you help!

I didn't respond directly as I was waiting for the soldering material + I wanted to give you a feedback directly instead of posting one thousand messages. :)

So... I did it with the 50V cap I had as you told me it was ok and I also did the "stability fix"... Only on one side... ^^

Unfortunately my console still reboot after something like 1 level when playing Prehistoric Isle 2. So I guess I didn't work for me... :(

Did the bridge work for all the persons who did it? (I got a 161 in 1 version 2 btw)

Do you think soldering the 100 NF would change something?

Is there anything else you think I should do?

Does someone have another solution?
 
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