PCE Super SD System 3 - Terraonion New Product (Dec 2017)

[neodev]

The ODE portion of it is definitely the most alluring since no other PC-Engine products currently do that. However, since the product also provides RGB output and is a premium price I think the enthusiasts with high end setups also have high expectations. It's good to hear that audio levels can be adjusted in software. A future firmware update to address that is a completely acceptable solution.

There just seems to be a lot of noise in the video signal (and maybe audio to lesser degree) that's not present in other modern RGB solutions. I realize you're very busy trying to catch up on shipping orders, but I'm hoping once you get caught up that you'll be able to look into the video more and not just assume "oh, those crazy videophiles are at it again" :P (even if it ends up being a solution I have to solder in myself).

I'm also curious if other customers who are pretty technical are having similar results to what I'm seeing with the OSSC or similar devices (devices meant to upscale to a HDTV tend to be more likely show underlying video noise than just going straight to a CRT). That would help rule out if it's potentially every unit, or just mine.

The rgb circuit is separate from the rest of the circuit. I mean, it doesn't go through the fpga, it's 'passive', so the noise you see probably comes from one of the following sources:
One, the pce itself. Pces are quite noisy inside. I have a few of them, and one is especially noisy, while other is crystal clear (coregrafx seem to be less.noisy). Probably duo are better, and also I think internal mods may have better quality because they have shorter lines to the rgb source, and they aren't packed along other signal lines.
The power supply. The fact that you are seeing more noise when running a cd then when runing a hucard might me caused bit that. The SD, fpga, mcu are all powered from the 5V line output from the internal PCE regulator, so when accessing the sd, although there are several capacitors to mitigate it, there is a short peak of power usage which might create a little noise on the signal, depending on the regulator and capacitor status. Changing the power supply has little impact as long as it has enough voltage and intensity room, because the regulator inside the pce is then the limit. Also, ssds3 draws more power than an internal mod, so if any noise is present ( all pces seem to have some degree of noise in the video signal), when using the ssds3, it will be slightly higher, and a bit more when using cd compared to an internal mod


About the audio, we can adjust and improve it. Also, the adpcm has a linear interpolator that produces a slightly muffled sound, we'll experiment with other ones or removing it entirely.

 

[torgo100]

Lads Lads Lads...

Let me make this CLEAR for you...

1. GENERAL ROM TALK = OK'ish...
2. LINKING OF ROMZ = Potentially gonna upset the management...

xROTx

PS. IF you guys need links... The official chat room is nice... TOP LINK...

Thanks for clarifying Rot

 

[elevengames]

Are there any plans to support .ccd/.img/.sub files without a corresponding .cue file? I’ve seen a couple of comments that it may be supported in the future with a firmware update, but I wasn’t sure if it’s still in the plans. If not, is anyone aware of any tools for macOS that let you create a .cue from a .img file?

 

[RevQuixo]

Are there any plans to support .ccd/.img/.sub files without a corresponding .cue file? I’ve seen a couple of comments that it may be supported in the future with a firmware update, but I wasn’t sure if it’s still in the plans. If not, is anyone aware of any tools for macOS that let you create a .cue from a .img file?

While it would be nice, pretty much everything you could want is out there with a cue file if you know where to look.

 

[cr4zymanz0r]

The rgb circuit is separate from the rest of the circuit. I mean, it doesn't go through the fpga, it's 'passive', so the noise you see probably comes from one of the following sources:
One, the pce itself. Pces are quite noisy inside. I have a few of them, and one is especially noisy, while other is crystal clear (coregrafx seem to be less.noisy). Probably duo are better, and also I think internal mods may have better quality because they have shorter lines to the rgb source, and they aren't packed along other signal lines.
The power supply. The fact that you are seeing more noise when running a cd then when runing a hucard might me caused bit that. The SD, fpga, mcu are all powered from the 5V line output from the internal PCE regulator, so when accessing the sd, although there are several capacitors to mitigate it, there is a short peak of power usage which might create a little noise on the signal, depending on the regulator and capacitor status. Changing the power supply has little impact as long as it has enough voltage and intensity room, because the regulator inside the pce is then the limit. Also, ssds3 draws more power than an internal mod, so if any noise is present ( all pces seem to have some degree of noise in the video signal), when using the ssds3, it will be slightly higher, and a bit more when using cd compared to an internal mod


About the audio, we can adjust and improve it. Also, the adpcm has a linear interpolator that produces a slightly muffled sound, we'll experiment with other ones or removing it entirely.

Thanks for the reply. Do you have any suggestions I could try that you think might help? Maybe putting a newer voltage regulator in my Core Grafx with a higher rating? (like maybe a 7805 1.5A, assuming that the original might be a 1A or lower). Or what about a more modern drop in replacement like the OKI-78SR-5 switching regulator (or would a switching regulator make it worse?). I replaced all the capacitors in the Core Grafx a couple of weeks ago, though I was getting the same results with an untouched US TurboGrafx 16.

Just looking for good suggestions of things to try. I've also got a RGB amp board on the way to mod the Core Grafx to see how internal RGB compares with and without the Super SD System 3 connected. Also, just to clarify I'm seeing the additional noise in the video whether I'm running a CD or hucard game from the microSD card. The noise is greatly reduced when using a real hucard with the SSDS3 connected (but still not as clean as my Duo-R).

Let me know if I need to spin this off to a separate thread or email.

 

[elevengames]

While it would be nice, pretty much everything you could want is out there with a cue file if you know where to look.

This might have just become a non-issue for me... Thank you for the tip!

 

[MobiusStripTech]

Switching regulators tend to be bad news. Most of them are poorly built and introduce more noise. This can sometimes be cleaned up with a filter cap but you are better off with a 7805S.

 

[cr4zymanz0r]

Switching regulators tend to be bad news. Most of them are poorly built and introduce more noise. This can sometimes be cleaned up with a filter cap but you are better off with a 7805S.

What's the difference between a regular 7805 and a 7805S?

 

[MobiusStripTech]

The 7805S is a 2A model. It's still a linear regulator but they tend to perform better than the standard 7805. As other have said, some of your noise issues honestly might be related to the console itself so doing the basics will help. Personally I would do a recap and jailbar fix while you are in there.

 

[cr4zymanz0r]

The 7805S is a 2A model. It's still a linear regulator but they tend to perform better than the standard 7805. As other have said, some of your noise issues honestly might be related to the console itself so doing the basics will help. Personally I would do a recap and jailbar fix while you are in there.

Recap and jailbar fix were already done a couple of weeks ago. Also got the same results on an untouched TG16

 

[neodev]

Thanks for the reply. Do you have any suggestions I could try that you think might help? Maybe putting a newer voltage regulator in my Core Grafx with a higher rating? (like maybe a 7805 1.5A, assuming that the original might be a 1A or lower). Or what about a more modern drop in replacement like the OKI-78SR-5 switching regulator (or would a switching regulator make it worse?). I replaced all the capacitors in the Core Grafx a couple of weeks ago, though I was getting the same results with an untouched US TurboGrafx 16.

Just looking for good suggestions of things to try. I've also got a RGB amp board on the way to mod the Core Grafx to see how internal RGB compares with and without the Super SD System 3 connected. Also, just to clarify I'm seeing the additional noise in the video whether I'm running a CD or hucard game from the microSD card. The noise is greatly reduced when using a real hucard with the SSDS3 connected (but still not as clean as my Duo-R).

Let me know if I need to spin this off to a separate thread or email.

Ok, then my recommendation is that you first try with the internal mod, to check if it's present there before doing any changes.

 

[skel28]

Alex you star you were quite correct sir.
My order from 17th January has shipped today by DHL to UK with a projected delivery date of tomorrow.
I am absolutely delighted.
Thank you.

 

[opt2not]

Alex you star you were quite correct sir.
My order from 17th January has shipped today by DHL to UK with a projected delivery date of tomorrow.
I am absolutely delighted.
Thank you.

Sweet, I should be right behind you then, I also ordered on Jan 17th.

These days I’ve been playing my Coregrafx via composite, and I gotta say I’m impressed with the image quality for a composite signal. It’s probably the cleanest I’ve seen. Obviously RGB is better, but the comp out on this thing isn’t bad.
It shouldn’t stop people from enjoying playing the system, while “waiting for their RGB fix”. Sometimes I think these people care more about getting perfect video signals than actually enjoying the games.

 

[MobiusStripTech]

Historically the PC Engine has been known for a high quality composite video signal. Personally I look forward to finally being to play with this ODE.

 

[neosd]

Alex you star you were quite correct sir.
My order from 17th January has shipped today by DHL to UK with a projected delivery date of tomorrow.
I am absolutely delighted.
Thank you.

There are still some customers that purchased before 17th on the queue, those presented special circunstances so i just had to move on to ship as many as possible. The goal was to ship 50 today and i lacked of time for do calls, sending emails and so
Among UPS orders that will be shipped tomorrow.

Examples :
a customer from Canada with a postal box (i have to ask if we can ship by DHL to postal boxes)
a customer from south korea without poscode

and such things ...

 

[legolas119]

Hi, I have just received the card, it is FANTASTIC!!! Thank you!!! I have some questions, can you help me please?

1) is it possible to visualize a snapshot for every game?
2) i have activated the "in Trigger menu" because in this way I can avoid to turn off the console every time I want to change a game. Do you find a lot of games with issues if this option is anabled?
3) In my BIOS folder I put 2 files: [BIOS] Games Express CD Card (Japan).pce and [BIOS] Super CD-ROM System (Japan) (v3.0).pce I tried some cd games, but it seems that they don't work with [BIOS] Games Express CD Card (Japan).pce. It seems that the right bios is only [BIOS] Super CD-ROM System (Japan) (v3.0).pce. Is it correct? Can I delete the other bios? Or could it be useful?

thanks

 

[Yodd]

The Games Express Bios in only for Games Express software.

99% of the time, Super CD 3.0 Bios is all you need.

 

[legolas119]

ah ok thanks! And can you help me with my other 2 questions?

1) is it possible to visualize a snapshot for every game? I read in the manual that with a GAmeDBmanager it is possible to create snapshot for every game...but i don't find the software and I have not understood how to create the database and where I have to put the snapshot files in the microSD...

2) i have activated the "in Trigger menu" because in this way I can avoid to turn off the console every time I want to change a game. Do you find a lot of games with issues if this option is enabled?

 

[opt2not]

Historically the PC Engine has been known for a high quality composite video signal. Personally I look forward to finally being to play with this ODE.

Exactly, that's my POV too. I'm really looking forward to diving into the CD games I missed when I was a wee lad.

 

[comp1demon]

Sorry,

We are not going to do any more changes to the video.

We can´t notice any issue with it anymore.

Also, after this experience we are not going to do any device more with RGB output.

I hope you understand that, Super SD System 3 video otput was NOT designed to be a high end output. It was an extra on the ODE.

Everytime i see people looking for issues on the RGB side, doing a post like yours and not writing a single word about the ODE itself, i feel we did a mistake while adding the rgb output at all.

Those guys with high end setups can use theyr pcengine video outputs as i asume they were using before.


Audio is a different story : we can adjust it by software even for indivial games and we plan to do it when neodev comes back from Semana Santa.


I would also like to state that the price of Super SD System 3 is set by the amount of hours we spent doing a 99% perfect ODE (among other things such as company expenses, taxes and fees related to the salaries, producting costs and the reduced market PCE has)

I see in your product photos you guys have a supergrafx...

I am using a Supergrafx as well when mine gets here but mine is RGB modded already. Should I undo that mod and use the SYSTEM 3 RGB or will the SYSTEM 3 work with the RGB I installed?

 

[MobiusStripTech]

I see in your product photos you guys have a supergrafx...

I am using a Supergrafx as well when mine gets here but mine is RGB modded already. Should I undo that mod and use the SYSTEM 3 RGB or will the SYSTEM 3 work with the RGB I installed?

That's up to you. Use whichever you prefer. You only need to tap the audio off of the SSD3 so you can get the audio from CD games.

 

[MobiusStripTech]

ah ok thanks! And can you help me with my other 2 questions?

1) is it possible to visualize a snapshot for every game? I read in the manual that with a GAmeDBmanager it is possible to create snapshot for every game...but i don't find the software and I have not understood how to create the database and where I have to put the snapshot files in the microSD...

2) i have activated the "in Trigger menu" because in this way I can avoid to turn off the console every time I want to change a game. Do you find a lot of games with issues if this option is enabled?

There is a link to the db creator software in the thread. That will handle the artwork. Just look for it.

Most people have the in game trigger turned off because it is buggy and not finished yet.

 

[legolas119]

There is a link to the db creator software in the thread. That will handle the artwork. Just look for it.

Most people have the in game trigger turned off because it is buggy and not finished yet.

ah ok thanks. But I have to read more then 70 pages...is it available the link to the DM Manager anywhere please?

Ok, I will disable the option: so if I need to change a game, i have to turn off the console ok? It is the only safe way for now. Does it means that developers are working on an updated firmware for the flashcard?

 

[LDigital]

Sorry for the RGB stress, someone else mentioned that it’s almost a hobby in itself for some people and they were right, but that’s not an excuse for all the kicking off you received as it was bad

I have a Batch 1 question, I was part of the very first batch and have had no luck syncing in my bvm d24 but my 2011p it is stable and I can play through my ossc so happy days.

On the 2011p the image has dark patches running through it. I have tried a sync stripper but it does not help. I’m really confused why this would be. Nothing else behaves like this and when displayed through the ossc the colours are fine. Pretty weird

Any thoughts on what that may be? Has this come up for anyone else?

I am using a standard retro gaming cables md 2 cable

Hopefully the new version will sort this out as I prefer playing on crt. Cheers

 

[MobiusStripTech]

ah ok thanks. But I have to read more then 70 pages...is it available the link to the DM Manager anywhere please?

Ok, I will disable the option: so if I need to change a game, i have to turn off the console ok? It is the only safe way for now. Does it means that developers are working on an updated firmware for the flashcard?

It's only a few pages back. I don't recall where. It was posted by either neodev or neosd. Just look at their posts.