Official A/V Thread

[Neo Ash]

Things got a little out of hand....

.....and bordering on insanity...



Well, my listening room looks like a mad scientist's lab. Cables...EVERYWHERE.

Whether video and or audio gear, it's important to try stuff out. Sometimes more is less and simple is better. I hate it when people knock their own 2CH or HT setup or whatever by saying it's basic or simple. There's nothing wrong with that. So many different comparisons can be made....from TV's too large for a small space and speakers that might as well be headphone because they are consuming all the space in the room.

I've been experimenting with some different amp configuration setups. I tried out 4 amplifiers running bridged in a horizontal bi-amp configuration. It was a very cool looking setup. However, it sounded like total ass. I mean it was bad...so bad I had to switch my preamp to mono and set the polarity to inverted just to make it remotely tolerable. I'm not going to bore everyone with the details of why such a setup can present less than adequate sound, but I knew that was a possibility going in. Switching things up to just a single amp in stereo was a night and day difference....the magic was back. In short when you shopping for anything A/V, take the time to try stuff out. Just because something looks baller, it doesn't mean it performs optimally and fits your use case.

 

[K-2]

^^quality post^^

Nine fucking amps- Looks like they're here to usher in the next evolution of mankind.

 

[terry.330]

Haha, I was going to say looks like something out of Hackers or Lawnmower Man.

 

[Kiel]

Looks like the computer system in Event Horizon

 

[gusmoney]

I need a set of inexpensive multiuse (vidya games, computer noizes, recoreds) bookshelf speakers. Anyone have recommendations?

 

[Kiel]

What do you consider inexpensive? Here are some popular guys for rock bottom prices

https://www.amazon.com/Dayton-Audio-B652-AIR-Bookshelf-Speaker/dp/B00NOA58RS

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B008NCD2L...tRPdYVrLKoHJylr1dMvC92jUz2fCHzpN75BoCTujw_wcB

 

[Kid Panda]

If you can find a set of these new at a local Wal Mart, these things get loud and sound amazingly well for the price.

https://www.amazon.com/Sony-SS-B100...35725&sr=1-2&keywords=Sony+bookshelf+speakers

 

[Neo Ash]

I need a set of inexpensive multiuse (vidya games, computer noizes, recoreds) bookshelf speakers. Anyone have recommendations?

A dealer I frequent just picked up the ELAC line. $280 for a pair of bookshelf speakers. Overall, very nice quality and sound for the money.

 

[GohanX]

If you're in a tight budget those Daytons paired with a $20 Lepai amp sound amazing.

 

[Jibbajaba]

A dealer I frequent just picked up the ELAC line. $280 for a pair of bookshelf speakers. Overall, very nice quality and sound for the money.

Are you talking about the B6's? I'm looking for some new speakers to pair with that Pioneer amp...

 

[gusmoney]

Thanks for the feedback guys. I guess I should have been clearer as I am looking for something in the sub-$100 range. Might just grab the Daytons. I have an old Pioneer amp to drive em.

 

[Neo Ash]

Are you talking about the B6's? I'm looking for some new speakers to pair with that Pioneer amp...

Yup. Those are the one.

Thanks for the feedback guys. I guess I should have been clearer as I am looking for something in the sub-$100 range. Might just grab the Daytons. I have an old Pioneer amp to drive em.

Another good option is the Polk T15. I purchased an earlier version of this speaker well over a decade ago when I was first getting into audio. Very good sound and build quality for the price. My parents still use those speakers daily. The Polk's will likely hold their value better and be easier to sell if you decide to upgrade later on.

 

[miisalo]

It is IMPOSSIBLE to add more detail than there already is. Think about it; how would it be possible?

Wrong.

Current best algorithms use statistical analysing and image recognition to add details. Memory and processing power is so cheap that it has enabled these to be used. Basically image processor has huge conversion database created by down and up scaling 4K images. These images are also classified (face, house, car etc) and stored in the classification database.

When example bluray is played, image processor classifies parts of the picture using image recognition and then instead of using linear scaling, use statistical scaling and edge enhancement for the extra pixels.

One could argue that it produces "unreal" picture, but currently all packing algorithms are already psychovisual and use the qualities of our vision and brain to generate unpacked picture that we see as original as possible even it is not. Anyway the result of these statistical algorithms are scaringly good. They create so much more sharpness in to the picture without any noticeable artifacts that comparing 4K bluray and fullhd bluray picture, you can hardly see any difference in the resolution, only the better bitrate and colors in the 4K bluray makes it better. And in my own experience I can tell you that with projectors that do not have as much contrast and color space in their use as best tv/monitor sets, 4K bluray is almost disappointment if compared to scaled bluray even if the difference between unscaled bluray and 4K is huge

Some of these algorithms also analyse multiple frames to generate more information for the scaling.

To help you understand why these algorithms work so well, just pause any bluray movie and see how crappy the freeze frame is - it is already our brain that post process video and adds details using the approximation of the subsequent frames. This approximation will basically negate errors that statistical scaling produces.

 

[smokehouse]

Wrong.

Current best algorithms use statistical analysing and image recognition to add details. Memory and processing power is so cheap that it has enabled these to be used. Basically image processor has huge conversion database created by down and up scaling 4K images. These images are also classified (face, house, car etc) and stored in the classification database.

When example bluray is played, image processor classifies parts of the picture using image recognition and then instead of using linear scaling, use statistical scaling and edge enhancement for the extra pixels.

One could argue that it produces "unreal" picture, but currently all packing algorithms are already psychovisual and use the qualities of our vision and brain to generate unpacked picture that we see as original as possible even it is not. Anyway the result of these statistical algorithms are scaringly good. They create so much more sharpness in to the picture without any noticeable artifacts that comparing 4K bluray and fullhd bluray picture, you can hardly see any difference in the resolution, only the better bitrate and colors in the 4K bluray makes it better. And in my own experience I can tell you that with projectors that do not have as much contrast and color space in their use as best tv/monitor sets, 4K bluray is almost disappointment if compared to scaled bluray even if the difference between unscaled bluray and 4K is huge

Some of these algorithms also analyse multiple frames to generate more information for the scaling.

To help you understand why these algorithms work so well, just pause any bluray movie and see how crappy the freeze frame is - it is already our brain that post process video and adds details using the approximation of the subsequent frames. This approximation will basically negate errors that statistical scaling produces.

KM is still right...you cannot get any more detail the the source provides. Either a player will be able to extract more detail than a different player, or it colors the detail adding crap on top of the source.

I dealt with this in the audio world were people would claim all this gobbelitygook from higher end components. The source is the source and it will only have all of the details it was designed with. Therefor, it is a flat value, or a 0. Crappy components may not have the ability to extract this detail and thus making something that is less than source, -1. Some components add crap to the source material that should not be there thus coloring the sound, +1. Either way, the source remains 0.

Many confuse the +1 as being superior to the 0 (because the -1 is often inferior)...when in fact it is not, it is colored. They may prefer the colored sound and thus call it superior when in fact, it is not.

Currently a processor may very well do a better job of upscaling a 1080 Blu Ray than many 4K players handle native 4K resolution...but the fact is that is both displayed correctly, uncolored, the 4K will offer better...well, everything than 1080 BR. As time goes on, this gap will widen.

This EXACT same argument came out when HDDVD and Blu Ray first hit the scene. Tons of guys with their top end DVD players and up-scalers claimed over and over how much better/equal a DVD looked than most Blu Ray/HDDVD players on the market at the time. Now, 10 years later, you'd be laughed out of the room making that claim. I recall them even stating at the time how people couldn't really even digest 1080 resolution and how big of a waste it was...LOL...

 

[miisalo]

We might be talking about schematics here - what is the source...

KM is still right...you cannot get any more detail the the source provides. Either a player will be able to extract more detail than a different player, or it colors the detail adding crap on top of the source.

If by source you mean original uncompressed data or better the reality, you are correct. But if you mean source as the data on BD, you are incorrect. New scaling algorithms create artificial data that make it more close to the original (uncompressed) picture.

Color enhancing etc is totally different bullshit. Most of those equipment that claim to do that is just adding contrast and more vivid colors that many people percept as better picture, when it's not how the original was. But this is not what I'm talking about. (Actually if we consider how the chroma subsampling works, it is possible to predict the original data better than h.264 or h.265 does by default. This again needs more processing power than pure decompressing)

I dealt with this in the audio world were people would claim all this gobbelitygook from higher end components. The source is the source and it will only have all of the details it was designed with.

Again, this is totally different thing. These audio sources are not lossy compressed (even some argue that 16 bit 44KHz is not enough resolution) as video sources that actually hardly contain the original data and where uncompressing results to picture that uses psychovisual quantities of the brain to let us believe that it is quite near the original picture.

Currently a processor may very well do a better job of upscaling a 1080 Blu Ray than many 4K players handle native 4K resolution...but the fact is that is both displayed correctly, uncolored, the 4K will offer better...

No shit sherlock. I'm not making that claim. I'm just talking about the fact that it is possible to create artificial information into the picture so that human will perceive it more close to the original uncompressed source than just the uncompressing algorithm can ever archive. This can be best done when picture resolution can be upscaled, so that new information can be added (pixels between).

This EXACT same argument came out when HDDVD and Blu Ray first hit the scene. Tons of guys with their top end DVD players and up-scalers claimed over and over how much better/equal a DVD looked than most Blu Ray/HDDVD players on the market at the time. Now, 10 years later, you'd be laughed out of the room making that claim. I recall them even stating at the time how people couldn't really even digest 1080 resolution and how big of a waste it was...LOL...

This is not the exact same claim. Those claims were shit all along. No dvd player ever looked even near the picture of any normal bd player. Ever. Not even using the new generation statistical scaling, the information difference is just too much. Hi-end people are mostly gullible and do not understand physics or technology, or most important - psychology. That is why they are hi-end guys. So their claims are...well...best not comment more.

BONUS FACT: Most of the DVD and BD players already do post processing to the picture. They add there data that never was in the original source. No one is crying that "it is not original data" because most people don't know shit about the actual technology and these prediction algorithms work quite well.

So the point of this rant is that it is possible to have external equipment that enhance the picture produced by dvd or bd player - that just uses standard uncompressing - to resemble the original picture more. And this is by creating more information by pattern recognition and prediction. Even if most of the equipment that claims to do it, just fuck up the contrast and the colors way that people feel it is looking better even it will actually destroy the color gradients of the dark and the light colors.

 

[smokehouse]

We might be talking about schematics here - what is the source...



If by source you mean original uncompressed data or better the reality, you are correct. But if you mean source as the data on BD, you are incorrect. New scaling algorithms create artificial data that make it more close to the original (uncompressed) picture.

Color enhancing etc is totally different bullshit. Most of those equipment that claim to do that is just adding contrast and more vivid colors that many people percept as better picture, when it's not how the original was. But this is not what I'm talking about. (Actually if we consider how the chroma subsampling works, it is possible to predict the original data better than h.264 or h.265 does by default. This again needs more processing power than pure decompressing)



Again, this is totally different thing. These audio sources are not lossy compressed (even some argue that 16 bit 44KHz is not enough resolution) as video sources that actually hardly contain the original data and where uncompressing results to picture that uses psychovisual quantities of the brain to let us believe that it is quite near the original picture.



No shit sherlock. I'm not making that claim. I'm just talking about the fact that it is possible to create artificial information into the picture so that human will perceive it more close to the original uncompressed source than just the uncompressing algorithm can ever archive. This can be best done when picture resolution can be upscaled, so that new information can be added (pixels between).



This is not the exact same claim. Those claims were shit all along. No dvd player ever looked even near the picture of any normal bd player. Ever. Not even using the new generation statistical scaling, the information difference is just too much. Hi-end people are mostly gullible and do not understand physics or technology, or most important - psychology. That is why they are hi-end guys. So their claims are...well...best not comment more.

BONUS FACT: Most of the DVD and BD players already do post processing to the picture. They add there data that never was in the original source. No one is crying that "it is not original data" because most people don't know shit about the actual technology and these prediction algorithms work quite well.

So the point of this rant is that it is possible to have external equipment that enhance the picture produced by dvd or bd player - that just uses standard uncompressing - to resemble the original picture more. And this is by creating more information by pattern recognition and prediction. Even if most of the equipment that claims to do it, just fuck up the contrast and the colors way that people feel it is looking better even it will actually destroy the color gradients of the dark and the light colors.

So...bla, bla, bla, random insult, bla, bla, bla. Long story short, players color the source material.

Got it. Basically what myself and KM said. You can't get "more detail" from a digital source...you can only add shit on top.

 

[Tripredacus]

Got this for $35 at a pawn shop.

It was a tough choice but I put it on the HD TV. Had the Kenwood on there before, will move that to the Trinitron after I get some more speakers before retiring the Sears 8-track receiver.

 

[famicommander]

just bought a 43" 4K IPS LCD TV for $300. LG model.

Once you turn off all the post processing the image quality is really good for the price. Same with the lag, have to turn off the post processing.

I still have the 60" plasma for the main display and the PVMs for the old stuff. This is my bedroom TV and a replacement for my 24" computer monitor.

Mostly bought it for 4K Blu Ray so I picked up an Xbox One. Waiting for some native 4K discs to get here from Amazon but 1080p discs scale really nicely as is.

Built in streaming apps are much faster than my other smart TV

 

[smokehouse]

just bought a 43" 4K IPS LCD TV for $300. LG model.

Once you turn off all the post processing the image quality is really good for the price. Same with the lag, have to turn off the post processing.

I still have the 60" plasma for the main display and the PVMs for the old stuff. This is my bedroom TV and a replacement for my 24" computer monitor.

Mostly bought it for 4K Blu Ray so I picked up an Xbox One. Waiting for some native 4K discs to get here from Amazon but 1080p discs scale really nicely as is.

Built in streaming apps are much faster than my other smart TV

besides the PQ, I think the built in APs on my LG set are the best part. Netflix, Amazon and Hulu work perfectly and are all really fast.I'm a year into my set and so far, I love the thing. It looks stunning with plain old BR over my dated PS3. Once 4K players simmer down, I really look forward to getting one.

 

[greedostick]

Glad this got bumped today. Kind of a sad day. About 7 months ago I found one of my roommates cats attempting to climb my speaker. So I put them into the bedroom closet until today when I hooked my system up in my room. I think you all know where this is going already....


I attempted to listen to a record today and the left was all muffled. After trouble shooting took the cover off.

So my left tweet is sliced... I'm surprisingly calm. I changed a whole woofer on my Inifinity speakers once. I see there is a nice hex screw there top open this thing up. I need some pointers, and a link to where I can buy a tweeter for a POLK TSX330T tower speaker. Please tell me this is possible, not too hard, and not going to fuck up the sound quality of this speaker if I can fix it.

http://www.crutchfield.com/p_107TX330TC/Polk-Audio-TSx330T-Cherry.html

Oh, and I lost on of these gold plated things that are on the back of the speaker connections. The double "L" shaped thing. What are these called, and should I be pissed it's missing. 3RD PIC

Moral of story, don't live with cats,,,,,,, EVER!

 

[Neo Ash]

Glad this got bumped today. Kind of a sad day. About 7 months ago I found one of my roommates cats attempting to climb my speaker. So I put them into the bedroom closet until today when I hooked my system up in my room. I think you all know where this is going already....


I attempted to listen to a record today and the left was all muffled. After trouble shooting took the cover off.

So my left tweet is sliced... I'm surprisingly calm. I changed a whole woofer on my Inifinity speakers once. I see there is a nice hex screw there top open this thing up. I need some pointers, and a link to where I can buy a tweeter for a POLK TSX330T tower speaker. Please tell me this is possible, not too hard, and not going to fuck up the sound quality of this speaker if I can fix it.

http://www.crutchfield.com/p_107TX330TC/Polk-Audio-TSx330T-Cherry.html

Oh, and I lost on of these gold plated things that are on the back of the speaker connections. The double "L" shaped thing. What are these called, and should I be pissed it's missing. 3RD PIC

Moral of story, don't live with cats,,,,,,, EVER!



View attachment 40123View attachment 40124

View attachment 40125

Ouch! It looks more like a dent than a rip in the picture. Dents can be sucked out with a vacuum. If it's torn, I would suggest calling Polk customer service. You can probably order a replacement. Should be a quick and easy fix like replacing any other driver. Check eBay for used spares. The L shaped thing is a binding post jumper; it is needed if you are not bi-wiring. Don't be pissed. Unless we are talking much hgher-end speakers, they are junk and should be replaced regardless.

These jumpers will more than get the job done and not break the bank. It will also give them that baller look.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/like/151002128408?lpid=82&chn=ps&ul_noapp=true

 

[smokehouse]

Ouch! It looks more like a dent than a rip in the picture. Dents can be sucked out with a vacuum. If it's torn, I would suggest calling Polk customer service. You can probably order a replacement. Should be a quick and easy fix like replacing any other driver. Check eBay for used spares. The L shaped thing is a binding post jumper; it is needed if you are not bi-wiring. Don't be pissed. Unless we are talking much hgher-end speakers, they are junk and should be replaced regardless.

These jumpers will more than get the job done and not break the bank. It will also give them that baller look.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/like/151002128408?lpid=82&chn=ps&ul_noapp=true

Vaccuum huh? Hmm...

I broke my B&W 600 S3 speakers out a of storage a few years back. They bastards hadn't been out of the box and sitting on the floor for 5 min when my then very young daughter walked over to one and "POP!" pushed in one of the dome tweeters. It's been that way ever since. Perhaps I should try to "suck" it back out...hmm...

 

[K-2]

Latest setup pic and update:


Dog approved!

Currently running:
-Bryston 2BLP amp - thanks are in order to Ash for peeling a fresh one from his stack.

-Bryston BP6 preamp - had it for a couple of weeks now and this has really made a huge improvement. Before using the BP6 I was running my sources into a Marantz AV pre/processor and the BP6 blows that out of the water. I was skeptical whether it would make a big difference, when in fact I think it made the largest improvement to the setup yet! The difference was akin to a Soprano on Nutrisystem and one that eats a steady diet of cake. Crazy

-Rega Apollo CD Player- I've gushed about this before, now I'm using it as a transport which is maybe overkill, but looks very BA.

-Audio Research DAC5 - Another contribution from the OP. My first real venture into using a dedicated DAC and this one is solid as fuck. The Apollo sounds damn good on its own, but the ARC gives a lot more definition to both high and lows. With cymbal hits you could probably identify what brand of cymbal and their diameter. Kick and timpani drums authoritative and defined.

-Music Hall 5.3 turntable - Still good

-AcousTech PH-1 Premium phono stage - Built like a tank and large as a barge. I dig it and it brings a lot of bass out of records; it's a good thing.

Also added a Furman PST-8 Power strip - I felt obligated to up the game on the surge protector and this definitely fit the bill. Also good looking with good outlet spacing.

Speakers are still my Atlantic Technology AT-1 - No need for subwoofers with this pair. Best 900 bucks I've spent in a while. They just got better with the addition of the BP6 and DAC5.

Cables - mostly radio shack - their thicker stuff

Big thanks as always to Ash for his constant guidance with the hifi building

 

[greedostick]

Latest setup pic and update:
View attachment 40137

Dog approved!

Currently running:
-Bryston 2BLP amp - thanks are in order to Ash for peeling a fresh one from his stack.

-Bryston BP6 preamp - had it for a couple of weeks now and this has really made a huge improvement. Before using the BP6 I was running my sources into a Marantz AV pre/processor and the BP6 blows that out of the water. I was skeptical whether it would make a big difference, when in fact I think it made the largest improvement to the setup yet! The difference was akin to a Soprano on Nutrisystem and one that eats a steady diet of cake. Crazy

-Rega Apollo CD Player- I've gushed about this before, now I'm using it as a transport which is maybe overkill, but looks very BA.

-Audio Research DAC5 - Another contribution from the OP. My first real venture into using a dedicated DAC and this one is solid as fuck. The Apollo sounds damn good on its own, but the ARC gives a lot more definition to both high and lows. With cymbal hits you could probably identify what brand of cymbal and their diameter. Kick and timpani drums authoritative and defined.

-Music Hall 5.3 turntable - Still good

-AcousTech PH-1 Premium phono stage - Built like a tank and large as a barge. I dig it and it brings a lot of bass out of records; it's a good thing.

Also added a Furman PST-8 Power strip - I felt obligated to up the game on the surge protector and this definitely fit the bill. Also good looking with good outlet spacing.

Speakers are still my Atlantic Technology AT-1 - No need for subwoofers with this pair. Best 900 bucks I've spent in a while. They just got better with the addition of the BP6 and DAC5.

Cables - mostly radio shack - their thicker stuff

Big thanks as always to Ash for his constant guidance with the hifi building

Very similar to Terry330's setup. Same CD player and Turntable I believe. Except he has the flat speakers that don't have magnets.

Luckily Polk had the tweets I needed, and I got a 20% discount and free shipping for joining the Polk forums. So it wasn't bad at all. Good to know I can put the original tweeter in there. Hopefully all goes smooth.

I double checked, it was a rip.

 

[max 330 mega]

so how do you know when speakers need to be refoamed? because everyone and every site says my bose 601 series III are way past due, but other than a split or two in the tiny piezo horns on top, the 8 inch speakers have no signs of wear, and overall the whole set still sound perfect even at high volumes (BTW, should I 80's remedy the tiny speakers by sealing the splits with clear nail polish?)