offical wwe thread

Electric Grave

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can't edit my posts, so...yeah, funny thing that show was filled by another Roman Reigns...LOL, I guess we're not too far from then...
 

norton9478

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The thing about the late 90's WCW is that the business was so poorly run that they would have had to sell out every show and done huge PPV/TV numbers every time just to make money.

Yeah, Goldberg was "another Roman Reigns". The fact that he drew shows the power of proper storytelling/booking.
 

famicommander

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Goldberg was actually over. He wasn't a great wrestler (or even a good one) but he was a freak athlete, he didn't have to wear a fat vest, and he had charisma.
 

norton9478

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I think that 2011/2012 was the last great years in North American wrestling. WWE was pretty good. ROH was awesome. And TNA was really, really good.

Now, I have a hard time watching any of that shit.
 

norton9478

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Goldberg was actually over. He wasn't a great wrestler (or even a good one) but he was a freak athlete, he didn't have to wear a fat vest, and he had charisma.

He also had a sense of mystique. Something that WWE totally ruined regarding Reigns.
 

Electric Grave

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Are you gaylords really defending Goldberg? LOL, anyway, what I'm saying is that it's not fair to compare a WCW episode like that, that was unheard of, they weren't prepared for the craziness that ensued.
 

famicommander

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I think that 2011/2012 was the last great years in North American wrestling. WWE was pretty good. ROH was awesome. And TNA was really, really good.

Now, I have a hard time watching any of that shit.

WWE sucked balls for the most part in 2011 and 2012. The last year where WWE was more good than bad was 2001. There were a lot of highs in the years after that, but far more lows.

ROH is still great in my book. The booking this year was much better than 2015 or 2016.

Lucha Underground's 105 episodes are the best run a wrestling television show has ever had in my opinion.

TNA sucked ass last time I watched it but with Double J gone I'll maybe try to watch Bound for Glory (and probably regret it). They haven't taped anything new since the latest regime change and they're promising "more action, less talk" and more appearances by AAA and NOAH talent. But talk is cheap.

AAA is like WWE and TNA in that their product is garbage but their roster is crazy good.

CMLL is consistently good but they're easily the most predictable, traditional, conservative promotion in the world. Strict no blood and swearing too, except on special occasions, but at least they don't water down the actual matches like WWE.

And then there's the indie scene, which is actually pretty good right now. CZW, PWG, AAW, Chikara, Wrestle Circus, and Evolve are putting on good shows consistently.

And I know you said North America, but the scenes in Japan and the UK are incredible right now. NJPW is the best thing going but AJPW, NOAH, DDT, Big Japan, and Dragon Gate are all getting good buzz as far as their in-ring products. And in the UK, RevPro, ICW, and Progress are top tier stuff.
 

norton9478

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Pretty Soon, Smackdown and Raw will be able to have live Empty Arena matches on the hard camera side.
 

famicommander

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Kenny Omega has been added to Supercard of Honor for Wrestlemania weekend.

This is the show that will break ROH's attendance record. The venue holds over 9,000 but we don't know how much of that will be taken away by their stage and video setups.

Either way, should be well.north of the 3,500 they drew last year.
 

Electric Grave

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True, Goldberg had the "it" factor. Roman just has looks that soccer moms would love, nothing more.

Still, you're comparing a grand event, a show that should have been handled differently, as a PPV, or a starcade, I dunno, something other than regular nitro, just saying is not a fair comparison. Still I was WCW 100% until the NWO BS started getting stupid, never really care for it to begin with, cutting matches short, fucking POS theatrics, I just wanted more cruiser weight matches back then.
 

famicommander

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Cody Rhodes says he is making 3X the amount of money per match worked in ROH vs when he was in WWE. And his downside (what they pay contracted wrestlers who get hurt and can't work) is also twice as high.
 

norton9478

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Actually, I think that if you get hurt, you just get added time on the contract and the downside doesn't apply.

The downside is more for "creative has nothing for you" guys.
 

norton9478

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Cody Rhodes says he is making 3X the amount of money per match worked in ROH vs when he was in WWE. And his downside (what they pay contracted wrestlers who get hurt and can't work) is also twice as high.

Cody 2011/2012 was awesome. Good to see him being used properly.
 

famicommander

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A bunch of talent is going to miss the PPV with the mumps (WWE originally was worried they all had meningitis; luckily they don't), so WWE has had to break the glass on their emergency Kurt Angle box. He's apparently going to wrestle.

Also Kevin Owens has left/been sent home from the WWE live event tour for this weekend due to personal reasons. Hopefully everything's okay with him and his family.
 

famicommander

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The Youtube shows have been sporadic lately but here's what we've got

Last week's Throwback Thursday:

This week's Women of Honor Wednesday:

This week's Throwback Thursday:
 

Arcademan

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A bunch of talent is going to miss the PPV with the mumps (WWE originally was worried they all had meningitis; luckily they don't), so WWE has had to break the glass on their emergency Kurt Angle box. He's apparently going to wrestle.
Per PWTorch:

In major breaking news, WWE has announced that Kurt Angle returns to the ring this Sunday, replacing Roman Reigns in the long-awaited reunion of The Shield, which will be delayed now. WWE cited a “medical reason” for Reigns not being in the match.

Also, Finn Balor will now face A.J. Styles instead of Bray Wyatt. Wyatt, who was conspicuous by his absence from TV the last two weeks other than the video, was also listed as being out due to a “medical reason.”

PWTorch has just learned that wrestlers are being asked to be tested for vital meningitis, a communicable disease that may be affecting wrestlers. Bray Wyatt, Bo Dallas, and Jo Jo have been pulled from the road recently. Common symptoms include fever, headache, and neck stiffness. Viral meningitis is considered less serious than bacterial meningitis. PWInsider reported earlier in the week there was concern on the roster about a “communicable disease.”

Keller’s Analysis: Moving Styles from Smackdown to Raw for a “dream match” against Finn Balor is a big move by WWE in and of itself, but cashing in the return of Kurt Angle to the ring on two day’s notice shows how seriously WWE is taking the potential disappointment fans will feel when The Shield doesn’t actually reunite for a full fledged match. Of course, the main concern of everyone is the health of wrestlers. It’s worth noting that Reigns may or may not be being pulled from the show for a completely different reason than Bray, and there were no reports of either suffering an injury in the ring.
 

famicommander

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WWE is switching the dates on Takeover and the HOF ceremony at Wrestlemania weekend, so that NXT Takeover goes head to head with ROH Supercard of Honor.

It's going to make it that much sweeter when they sell the show out anyway.

Vince is scurred
 

Arcademan

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Also Kevin Owens has left/been sent home from the WWE live event tour for this weekend due to personal reasons. Hopefully everything's okay with him and his family.

Owens tweet earlier:

I’m not sick. I’m not hurt. My family needed me home. Thank you to @WWE & the fans in Argentina & Chile for their support and understanding.

And flying down to Chile to take his spot...Triple H!!! His first match since WrestleMania.
 

Arcademan

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WWE TLC PPV Results: 10-22-17

I' m late...so sue me!!! :angry:

Results courtesy of PWTorch.com (direct link to Keller's ongoing and long-winded report). Condensed here to in-ring results only.

Pre-Show:

(A) ALICIA FOX vs. SASHA BANKS

Booker joked that he usually take vacations this time of year, but he didn’t so he could be at TLC. Graves said he works one day a week, so why does he need vacations. Cole asked them not to fight tonight. Cole pushed the revised line-up. They cut to an early break.

Banks kicked Fox to the floor and she landed with a thud. The ref pushed Banks back and then began counting Fox out. Banks won with a Bank Statement out of nowhere.

WINNER: Sasha in 8:00.

Pay-per-view:

(1) ASUKA vs. EMMA

Emma came out first. Cole said Asuka’s streak was the longest in 25 years in WWE. Booker said, You don’t get an undefeated streak by accident. After an early exchange, Emma slapped Asuka and trash-talked her. Asuka rebounded off the ropes and knocked Emma over with a flying butt. Emma came back and slidekicked Asuka out of the ring. She kicked Asuka hard into the barricade. Emma settled into a half nelson type of hold center-ring. When Asuka stood up and broke free, Emma yanked her down hard by her hair. A few shoves to the head riled up Asuka. Asuka caught Emma with a running knee to the nose. Both were slow to get up. Asuka hit a missile dropkick off the second rope and then kicked away at Emma’s head. Emma came back with some sustained offense including yanking Asuka off the ring apron by her hair to the floor, but Asuka then finished her eventually with a high round kick and her Asuka Lock. Cole said Emma put on an incredible performance.

WINNER: Asuka in 9:00. (**1/4)

Good match. Maybe too good. Going even-steven for as long as she did with Emma, who hasn’t been built up as a serious threat, defined Asuka down a little bit from the hype.

(2) BRIAN KENDRICK & JACK GALLAGHER vs. CEDRIC ALEXANDER & RICH SWANN

Vic Joseph and Nigel McGuinness took over announcing, which is fine, but they don’t do that with Cruiserweights when they wrestle on Raw every week. They aired a video recap of Gallagher’s heel turn. Nigel said, Sports Entertainment is a game of chess. Ugh. Gordon Solie just did a spit take in heaven. The heels isolated Swann for a couple minutes. He eventually ran under Gallagher’s legs and hot-tagged in Cedric who hit Gallagher with a spinning elbow and then a spinning round kick off the ropes. Then a springboard clothesline, but when he went for the cover, Kendrick broke it up. He then overhead tossed Cedric at ringside. Kendrick threw Cedric into the ring, Cedric small packaged Kendrick for an near fall. Kendrick came back and applied the Captain’s Hook. Cedric rolled Kendrick’s shoulder’s down fora two count, but Kendrick rolled back and held on. Swann then frog splashed Kendrick illegally to break up the hold. Swann head butted Gallagher when he got involved, and then Cedric finished Kendrick with a Lumbar Check.

WINNERS: Alexander & Swann in 8:00. (**)

Good action. Pretty standard fare, filling time well with nice athleticism and a babyface team that the crowd was behind start to finish.

(3) ALEXA BLISS vs. MICKIE JAMES – WWE Raw Women’s Title match

Graves said Bliss’s braggadocious attitude has served her well in WWE. Booker said if Mickie wins tonight, she’s a first ballot Hall of Famer. Cole said she already is. Bliss took control early and grounded Mickie. She scored a few leverage near falls, then stomped on her and stood on her wrist. “Oh poor Mickie!” Bliss shouted as she rubbed her eyes as if crying. Booker said, “There’s not a lot of speed, but the timing of Mickie James is perfect.” Graves quickly cleaned up after Booker, saying Mickie hasn’t lost a step and he didn’t know what Booker was watching. Cole said, “Just because you’ve lost a step doesn’t mean Mickie James has.” Bliss knocked Mickie off balance a few minutes later, but Mickie then avoided a Twisted Bliss splash. Mickie then went for a top rope dropkick, but grazed Bliss. Bliss begged off. When Mickie moved in, she grabbed Bliss’s hair. The ref scolded her. Bliss then yanked Mickie into the turnbuckle and then hit her DDT for the win.

WINNER: Bliss in 11:00 to retain the Raw Women’s Title. (**1/2)

(4) KALISTO vs. ENZO AMORE – WWE Cruiserweight Title match

Enzo early on ducked a spin hook kick. Kalisto mocked Enzo’s body gyrations early as he outmaneuvered him. He dove through the ropes and speared him at ringside. Nigel said Kalisto clearly has Enzo’s number. Enzo yanked Kalisto by his foot off the top rope and took over. Enzo bent over and trash-talked Kalisto. Then when Kalisto stood, he gave him a double axe handle type of blow for a two count. Then he settled into a chinlock. Kalisto eventually came back and kicked Enzo in the head and then springboarded onto Enzo. He hit a flurry of offense including a head scissors takeover leading to a two count. Enzo put his leg on the bottom rope. Enzo came back with a flying “DDG” for a near fall. He complained to the ref and pounded the mat in frustration. When Enzo grabbed the ring apron and dragged it into the ring, the ref tended to it. Enzo then poked Kalisto in the eyes and then gave him his finisher for the win.

WINNER: Enzo in 9:00 to retain the WWE Cruiserweight Title. (**1/2)

(5) “THE DEMON” FINN BALOR vs. A.J. STYLES

There was a big match feel. They collided mid-ring and squared off again. Balor took Styles down with a head lock, then they both popped up. Crowd split but leaning toward Styles. Styles eventually got control and landed a knee drop for a two count. An “A.J. Styles / Let’s Go Balor” battle chant broke out. Balor eventually made a comeback. Styles fired back with chops to the chest. Styles eventually applied a calf crusher for the first real high drama moment of the match. Balor escaped and rammed Styles head into the mat over and over. Both were slow to get up. The announcers wondered if Balor’s speed would be hampered by that much time in the Calf Crusher. “This is awesome!” chanted the crowd. Balor blocked a Phenomenal Forearm attempt and knocked Styles to the floor. Balor then ran the apron and front kicked Styles. Then at ringside Balor hit Styles with a running dropkick. Balor rolled into the ring to stop the countout. The announcers said Balor doesn’t want to win by countout. Balor returned to ringside, at which point Styles surprised him with a tackle right into one of the announce tables. They both tumbled to the floor. Cole said Balor may end up regretting not taking the countout win when he could.

Back in the ring they flew into each other and collided. Balor caught Styles with an overhead kick to counter a Styles Pelé kick. Balor scored a near fall after after slamming Styles to the mat. He then stayed on offense and dropkicked Styles in the corner. He climbed to the top rope, but Styles popped up and kicked him off balance. Balor slumped over while still on the top rope. Styles then hit a springboard huracanrana fora near fall. Balor avoided a springboard 450 and then hit a shotgun dropkick. Then he landed the Coup de Grace for the win. “I think the dream match delivered,” said Cole. Balor helped Styles up afterward with a handshake. Then they did a “Too Sweet” hand gesture which got a rise out of the crowd.

WINNER: Balor in 18:00. (****)

Really really good match. Just smooth when called for and high-impact when called for, and they had the crowd into it despite there being no backstory or heel/face dynamic. Two pros who you could tell knew this a special showcase for them. And they have more in them, too, as that felt like a starting point for what could be a classic series of matches with different vibes to them.
 

Arcademan

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WWE TLC PPV Results: 10-22-17

(6) ELIAS vs. JASON JORDAN

Elias sang center-ring this time. He was interrupted quickly by Jason Jordan’s music. The early pace was meant to just bring the show down a bit with consistent but basic action before picking the pace a few minutes in. Jordan carried Elias around the ring and threw him into turnbuckles and then suplexed him. Jordan then speared Elias in the corner and suplexed him and scored a two count. Elias caught a charging Jordan with a knee to the temple. He suplexed him into the ring, but Jordan twisted and turned it into a small package for the three count. Elias appeared to kick out right at three. Booker didn’t like it and said it was a quick out. Graves said he probably thinks Angle put him up to it. They replayed the finish and Cole said Elias might have a case that his right shoulder was up at three.

WINNER: Jordan.

(7) KURT ANGLE & SETH ROLLINS & DEAN AMBROSE vs. KANE & BRAUN STROWMAN & MIZ & SHEAMUS & CESARO

Miz came out first. Then Cesaro and Sheamus. Then Kane. Cole said when Kane was added to the match, it changed the complexion of the match. He said Kane has wrestled more PPV matches than anyone. Then Braun came out. After a dramatic pause, The Shield music played. It’s so strange not hearing an outburst of boos when that music plays. Seth, Dean, and Angle came out in Shield gear. The crowd managed to start a “You suck!” chant despite the Shield music not having the beat to match the chant. Booker called Angle “arrogant” for putting himself in a match like this.

A brawl broke out at the start. The Shield (as we’ll refer to Angle’s team tonight) used chairs to get the early advantage. They bashed Seth and Sheamus and Miz out of the ring, ten beat up Kane and Braun with chairshots. Kane was isolated mid-ring. A loud “Yes!” chant broke out. Dean and Seth then dove through the ropes and took out Miz, Sheamus, and Cesaro at ringside. The Shield used a small ladder and rammed into the three as soon as they stood up. Angle jabbed Kane in the mid-section with a ladder at ringside. Seth and Dean cleared the Spanish announce table. Sheamus and Cesaro went after them, but Seth and Dean fought them off. Kane stood up and popped Dean and Seth with uppercuts. He punched Angle to slow him down, too. Seth hit Kane with a chair, then rolled him onto a table. Braun then reappeared and went after the three babyfaces. Seth hit Braun with a chair from behind, then across the chest. Cole said the TLC stips are why three men have a chance against five. They put Kane on one table and Braun on another. Then they set up tall ladders. “Yes! Yes!” chanted the crowd in anticipation. Seth and Dean climbed the ladders. They leaped onto Kane and Braun. Seth grabbed at his left knee in pain. Cole drew attention to it, saying he has a history of knee injuries. “We hope that’s not a concern,” he said. Graves said that’s why they call them high risk moves.

Angle bashed Miz with a chair a few times, then threw him into the ring. Miz, Sheamus, and Cesaro triple-teamed Angle. The fans booed. They set him up for a Shield Bomb, but Seth and Dean made the save. The heels attacked them at ringside as Angle regrouped in the ring. Angle then gave Miz three unreleased German suplexes. Then he gave one to Sheamus and one to Cesaro as they charged into the ring. Angle extended his arms and the crowd roared with cheers. “You still got it!” chanted fans. Kane sat up at ringside and looked sinister. Angle countered a chokeslam attempt with an Anklelock mid-ring. Braun entered and clipped Angle’s ankles and threw him into the barricade at ringside. Braun then gave Angle a running powerslam through a table at ringside. Two medics and two refs checked on him. Graves said that effectively puts Angle out of the match.

Rollins and Ambrose fought back, but they were overwhelmed by the five-on-two odds. “This has turned into a five-on-one massacre,” Cole said. Medics helped Angle to his feet and toward the back. Angle’s legs gave out and he dropped down. Booker said Angle should have never put himself in this match. Graves said some people would call this guts. The heels tossed Seth into the corner where a chair was wedged. It became “garbage time” for the heel five-some, just methodically and confidently beating down Seth and Dean with chairs. Kane swung and accidentally hit Braun with a chair. Seth and Dean powerbombed Dean on the table, but the table didn’t break, just one leg bent. They leaned it into the corner and then Braun threw Dean through it.

Next the heels threw Seth and Dean into a garbage truck that was backed up onto the stage. Seth and Dean fought back. They climbed onto it and then leaped off of it onto all five heels on the stage. Seth and Dean chased Miz to the ring. Dean stopped Miz from running over the barricade into the crowd. Seth bashed Miz across the back with a chair. Dean took his turn. They dragged him to the stage and then set up tables. Kane got up and saved Miz. Seth and Dean double-teamed Kane. Braun then came in and broke up their attempt to double powerbomb Kane. Kane then hit Braun from behind and chokeslammed him off the stage. Braun crashed through the surface set up next to the stage set up for that spot.

Up next, Kane looked at a chain of chairs hanging from the ceiling. He yanked on the chairs and they call came tumbling down onto Braun. They were conveniently located right above where Braun was chokeslammed! Braun rustled around as you could see chairs moving above the ledge of the place where he fell. The camera showed Braun underneath a dozen chairs. Booker said the match is not over. Graves said it is for Braun. Seth and Dean then attacked Kane. Miz made the save. Kane double-chokeslammed Dean and Seth. Poor Dean didn’t benefit from the table breaking yet again. The side of his head hit the edge of the table instead. The ref immediately checked on Dean. Cesaro and Sheamus showed up again after a long absence. Sheamus dragged Seth off the stage to the floor. Cesaro picked up Dean and carried him toward the garbage truck. Meanwhile, Braun began to get up. Kane tilted his head in amazement.

Miz begged off a little, but Braun shoved him into the video wall. Braun then punched Sheamus and Cesaro. Braun walked down to Kane and attacked him on the floor. Braun picked up Kane headed toward the garbage truck. Sheamus and Cesaro made the save. Miz joined in. Kane then kicked Braun in the face. They stomped away at Braun four-on-one. Then they threw him into the garbage truck. The garbage truck closed. “Oh my God, no!” said Cole. “What are they thinking!” Fans chanted “This is murder.” The truck drove away. Miz looked on as if maybe they went too far.

Kane, Sheamus, Cesaro, and Miz threw Seth into the ring. Cole said they should just pin Seth “and end this thing.” Booker said Miz wants to savor this moment. “This is beyond sports entertainment,” he said. Ambrose made the save when Sheamus and Cesaro had him covered. As Kane signaled for the chokeslam, Angle’s music played. Angle walked out onto the stage. He gave Sheamus an Olympic slam in the aisle. He gave Cesaro an Olympic slam through a table. Kane then set up Angle for a tombstone. Seth hit Kane with a chair from behind to stop him. Seth and Dean then speared Kane through the barricade into the time keeper’s area. Miz then gave Angle a Skull Crushing Finale for a convincing near fall. Miz completely freaked out at the ref. “USA!” chanted the fans, oddly. Is Cleveland not part of the USA anymore? Miz set up a Skull Crushing Finale on Angle, but Angle escaped and applied the Anklelock. Miz twisted out of it and kicked Angle. Angle flipped out the ring and landed on his head on the ring apron as he tumbled to the floor. Geesh! Careful out there. He was fine. Angle crawled back into the ring as Seth and Dean also rose. Miz realized what he was in for, with no one to help. They gave a high knee, Dirty Deeds, an Angle Slam, and then they gave him the Shield triple powerbomb for the crowd-pleasing win.

WINNERS: Seth & Dean & Angle.

That was a lot of, well, fun. Is that a good thing? They managed to execute a TLC match without overdoing the big spots, especially crazy ladder spots, although Angle managed to keep us on edge, and the non-cooperation of tables with Dean added some unexpected drama. The garbage truck spot and the chokeslam off the stage added bonus drama without big risks involved. They had a crowd-pleasing ending. They cleverly managed to write Angle out of the bulk of the match, but have him center-ring for the finish. For a lot of fans, they’ll be talking about this for years as one of their favorite spectacle matches. For others, I’m sure they’ll see this as a clustermess and too gimmicky.
 
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