offical wwe thread

Syn

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Oh no, another cease and desist for "Freebird rules".
 

famicommander

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DMTpZ2IVQAEsd_Y.jpg:large


I rest my case.
 

famicommander

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Last night's Raw was the lowest rated since mid June, and this is how the crowd looked:
Kr41Lqq.jpg


It's only going to get worse as Reigns continues burying everybody up until he takes the belt off Lesnar at Wrestlemania.
 

FilthyRear

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Last night's Raw was the lowest rated since mid June, and this is how the crowd looked:
Kr41Lqq.jpg


It's only going to get worse as Reigns continues burying everybody up until he takes the belt off Lesnar at Wrestlemania.

So what you're saying is that if I buy tickets to a live event, I can get front row and heckle the wrestlers?

EDIT-A-ROONEY: Kurt Angle was a fucking BEAST in TNA.
 

Electric Grave

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I hate Roman Douchings, seriously had so much hate for Hogan, I think this guy trampled all over it...and he's not as much of a douche as Hogan is...but he sucks so hard. Vince needs to fucking get a stroke and pass the helm...I don't think Triple Douche has what it takes but it's better than Vince.
 

famicommander

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I hate Roman Douchings, seriously had so much hate for Hogan, I think this guy trampled all over it...and he's not as much of a douche as Hogan is...but he sucks so hard. Vince needs to fucking get a stroke and pass the helm...I don't think Triple Douche has what it takes but it's better than Vince.

Reigns is easily a better human being than Hogan, but at least Hogan was a legitimate draw. He got pushed because he was popular. Reigns is getting pushed because he gives Vince a boner and is related to the Rock.
 

Electric Grave

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You can't be all that good inside if you haven't learn how to wrestle by now after all this time in the ring.
 

Syn

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They aren't asking him to wrestle. They aren't training him too either.

As long as he does what Vince wants, he'll be pushed.

He's a male Sable to Vince.
 
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FilthyRear

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You can't be all that good inside if you haven't learn how to wrestle by now after all this time in the ring.

Why learn how to wrestle when you have the invincible combination of Spear, Howl, and Superman Punch?
 

norton9478

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Reigns' push and ring works reminds me so much of Luger.


I hate Roman Douchings, seriously had so much hate for Hogan, I think this guy trampled all over it...and he's not as much of a douche as Hogan is...but he sucks so hard. Vince needs to fucking get a stroke and pass the helm...I don't think Triple Douche has what it takes but it's better than Vince.

When HHH was actively running NXT, it was the best show on North American Television.
 

famicommander

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No it wasn't.

At no point during NXT's existence was it anywhere close to being as good as Lucha Underground or ROH TV. Only the major Takeover shows are even worth mentioning, and even those are worse than your run of the mill ROH iPPV.
 

famicommander

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Tonight is the conclusion of Ultima Lucha Tres, the end of the third season of Lucha Underground, and the last episode for a very long time (possibly/probably the last one ever).

Hopefully it's a good one.
 

famicommander

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Last night's Smackdown attendance:
DMYQmfUW0AEkYwx.jpg


And again, the viewership was the lowest since June 13.

Maybe it's not such a good idea to have a 46 year old son of the boss as your top babyface and a guy that literally nobody would ever want to see for any reason as champ.

Once Cena and Lesnar are gone for good, this company is going to start drawing some TNA house show numbers.
 

JoeAwesome

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Once Cena and Lesnar are gone for good, this company is going to start drawing some TNA house show numbers.

Show me one picture of the crowd not on the hard camera's side, and maybe I'll take you seriously again.
 

famicommander

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Show me one picture of the crowd not on the hard camera's side, and maybe I'll take you seriously again.

It should be obvious from watching it on TV that they're packing the crowd on that side so it looks good for the camera. You don't need to see a picture of it; they put in TV for 2 hours.

The point is, they used to fill these arenas entirely. If they're only filling 50-70% of the buildings they're going to have to start running smaller venues.

This is something you do when you're struggling to draw as much as you need to. They wouldn't be booking 12,000 seat arenas if they were only planning on drawing 5,000-8,000 fans.

This is what WCW drew for an episode of Nitro in 1998:
1454208183451

Not Starrcade or a PPV; just an episode of Nitro.

And 3 years later the entire company was gone.
 
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andsuchisdeath

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It should be obvious from watching it on TV that they're packing the crowd on that side so it looks good for the camera. You don't need to see a picture of it; they put in TV for 2 hours.

The point is, they used to fill these arenas entirely. If they're only filling 50-70% of the buildings they're going to have to start running smaller venues.

This is something you do when you're struggling to draw as much as you need to. They wouldn't be booking 12,000 seat arenas if they were only planning on drawing 5,000-8,000 fans.

This is what WCW drew for an episode of Nitro in 1998:
1454208183451

Not Starrcade or a PPV; just an episode of Nitro.

And 3 years later the entire company was gone.

Obviously there are several factors attributed to the steady decline in attendance. HOWEVER, what do you think
has attributed to this more? The incessant pushing of guys like Reigns and Mahal, or having a roster loaded with guys who know how to work but wouldn't get over with the crowd who likes big guys + lots of character.

I mean, the rock 2.0 could sign with WWE tomorrow, but....could that large casual entertainment fan base who loves "stars" ever come back to see him? Besides appealing to himself, Vince is still trying to appeal to a crowd that moved on from wrestling long ago. Did they move on because Kevin Steen became champion a year ago?

Do you think these areas would be fuller if stuff like Styles Vs. Owens was booked properly? Nakamura? What are your thoughts fammi?
 

andsuchisdeath

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I mean, in short bad booking = nobody likes product.

But how do you think "big guys who looks like stars" Vs. "Smaller guys who can work" comes into play?

Would "smart" fans who don't go to WWE shows start showing up in they actually produced a better product, angle-wise, in-ring wise, presentation-wise?

How large of a number do these fans equate to?
 
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famicommander

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They already fucked themselves by making everyone except HHH, Undertaker, Lesnar, and Cena look like a complete joke for the last 15 years.

They convinced their entire audience that those guys were at a level above everyone else. Everyone besides them is the "B" team.

Well, Taker is gone.
HHH is at this point working 1-5 matches per year.
Brock Lesnar is a part timer and is on the way out
John Cena is now a part timer and will soon be leaving for Hollywood

The guys they rely on the carry the TV shows and house shows every single week -- AJ Styles, Kevin Owens, Seth Rollins, Dean Ambrose, Shinsuke Nakamura, etc -- are not looked at by the audience as viable replacements for the guys above, even though they have more than enough talent, are well liked generally, and most have gotten over big elsewhere.

Roman Reigns is the only person they've even remotely tried to build to replace them, and the crowd has outright rejected him because he sucks ass on the mic and in the ring. You have to be able to do at least one or the other, preferably both. And instead of recognizing that his push has failed, they've been shoving him down their audience's throat for five fucking years.

WWE has an outright hostility to its own audience. They tried everything they possibly could to sabotage the rise of Daniel Bryan and CM Punk. They don't want to let the fans decide who is a star and who isn't; they want the fans to stop thinking and only cheer or boo whomever WWE wants them to. But those two guys were just so ridiculously over that the fans literally started hijacking entire shows, chanting for them to the disruption of other promo segments and matches.

So to answer your question more directly, I think things would be better if they simply started getting out of their own way. They have the talent but they intentionally hold guys down so they don't look better than Reigns or Lesnar.

I mean, they're booking Mahal vs Lesnar at Survivor Series just so Lesnar looks a little stronger when Reigns takes his title at Mania. Never mind that Mahal sucks ass; doing that completely buries the Smackdown championship and by extension its entire roster.

Do you remember the pop AJ Styles got when he came to WWE? Those fans already knew who he was. Or enough of them did to influence everybody else into cheering along with them. Those people remember what Styles did in TNA, Ring of Honor, and New Japan. And then they sign him to WWE and he jobs to Jericho at Mania, drops the WWE title to fucking Bray Wyatt, drops the US title to fucking Baron Corbin, and feuds with the son of the boss. And now they're going to feed him to Jinder.

The fans are literally telling WWE what they want. They're showing up to WWE events in Bullet Club T shirts. The only guys that entered the company after 2005 who are remotely over are ROH, NJPW, Dragon Gate, TNA, or NOAH guys. The biggest stars in the modern era besides Cena and Lesnar were ROH guys. The only companies in the world that are actually growing are NJPW and its partners, ROH and CMLL.

They need to take the restraints off. They need to stop taking away what makes people special as soon as they get to WWE.

They took away Rhino's Gore to make Reigns' shitty spear look better.
They took away both of Adam Cole's finishers.
They took away Kevin Owens' finisher.
they took away Seth Rollins' finisher.

People want to see cool moves like piledrivers. People want to see blood. People want swearing. People want most of their matches to end in clean finishes. They want good booking and storylines that make sense within the context of the promotion itself.

Instead you're getting Bray Wyatt in drag versus Finn Balor dressed like a pumpkin.
 

famicommander

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Welcome to wrestling in the year 2017.

ROH is booking larger and larger venues every year and consistently filling them to 80-100% capacity. NJPW is looking to draw 40,000 people to Wrestle Kingdom 12. CMLL has drawn multiple 1 million dollar gates in the last few years; the only company ever besides WWE to do it.

There is a reason those three are growing. And there is a reason WWE is shrinking rapidly.

I won't deny that the business is down on the whole but it's still possible to be successful. WWE is simply a relic at this point. It will be some years yet before they actually get caught by NJPW+friends, but it's becoming more and more realistic as time goes on.
 

famicommander

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We've noted how Neville's WWE status is up in the air after he reportedly walked out of RAW in Indianapolis earlier this month after finding out he was scheduled to lose a non-title match to then-WWE Cruiserweight Champion Enzo Amore that night. Kalisto ended up winning the title from Enzo that night but sources report that the plan has been to get the title back on Enzo, possibly at this Sunday's WWE TLC pay-per-view. There were conflicting reports on if Neville really walked out of RAW but multiple sources confirmed that he was not happy with the company and that he had pushed for his release.

It was also reported that Neville's unhappiness goes back a few months as he was upset over his WrestleMania 33 Kickoff pre-show win over Austin Aries being left off the WrestleMania DVD along with the other pre-show matches. This caused him to miss out on royalties from what is usually the best-selling WWE DVD of the year. It was also noted that The King of The Cruiserweights was upset over other issues. While Neville remains under contract with WWE, it was reported that he was not being factored into any creative plans and he was not being booked for any upcoming events.

In an update, Sports Illustrated reports that Neville was frustrated by the direction of his character, the lack of pay-offs and the rough WWE life on the road. Neville has reportedly been "miserable in WWE" since January of this year and the walkout came nine months later than expected by many people close to the situation.

It appears Neville's decision may be influenced in-part by Austin Aries, who left the company on amicable terms earlier this year. The SI report notes that Neville learned Aries would be making more in the next six weeks on the indies than Neville would in the same timeframe while with WWE. We noted before that Neville had pushed for his WWE release with the idea of working the indies and making a name for himself there.

Regarding his match being left off the WrestleMania 33 DVD, not only was Neville upset about missing out on the pay but he was said to be "infuriated" that the company "would disregard his service and value" after being as dedicated as he was. Neville reportedly felt that he was viewed as "nothing more than a very talented 'get-over guy' used to enhance" other Superstars.

No word yet on if WWE will grant Neville his release but SI reports that he is hoping or success in Ring of Honor or New Japan Pro Wrestling. WWE could grant the release or make Neville wait until his deal expires, or possibly explore a breach of contract, but SI adds that the walkout did upset Vince McMahon.

that's pretty much what I just said
 
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Electric Grave

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It should be obvious from watching it on TV that they're packing the crowd on that side so it looks good for the camera. You don't need to see a picture of it; they put in TV for 2 hours.

The point is, they used to fill these arenas entirely. If they're only filling 50-70% of the buildings they're going to have to start running smaller venues.

This is something you do when you're struggling to draw as much as you need to. They wouldn't be booking 12,000 seat arenas if they were only planning on drawing 5,000-8,000 fans.

This is what WCW drew for an episode of Nitro in 1998:
1454208183451

Not Starrcade or a PPV; just an episode of Nitro.

And 3 years later the entire company was gone.

Fanny come on man! That's the Goldberg Georgia Dome episode, of course it was gonna be filled like a can of sardines...and you know this man!!!

...but yes I agree with you. NXT best time was when Neville and Tyson Kidd were in the ring, amazing matches those 2, Neville is the most superb consummate athlete, dedicated to his craft, to his body language, to his effortless strength, he's amazing and to think Tyson Kidd kept up with him. top speed, such a great talent, destroyed thanks to a heap of meat, I never cared for Samoa Joe and that just cemented a serious grudge, if I ever see him in ring I would yell so hard to that POS, someone has to.
 
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