offical wwe thread

famicommander

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I was playing WWF No Mercy not long ago and it was pretty shocking to see just how many of them are dead already.

British Bulldog, Chris Benoit, Eddie Guererro, Viscera, Test, Mae Young, Moolah, Andre the Giant (was already dead when it came out), Big Boss Man, Crash Holly, Paul Bearer...
 

FilthyRear

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I have custom rosters for FirePro Returns from 80's WWF and 98-ish WCW and Attitude Era WWF. Just glancing through those rosters makes me sad because a good number of them are in rough shape or dead.
 

norton9478

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NXT stars don't make dick, dude. Not until and unless they are signed to the main roster.

They offered the Briscoes like 250$ a week before the Briscoes signed their most recent ROH deals.

In all likelihood ROH could pay them more, but going to ROH instead of NXT means a smaller chance of ending up on the main WWE roster long term.

The numbers I've seen is that it pays between $300-$500 stipend per week. And that is for a training wage. All depends on how much they want you and how much you can finagle out of them. The more options you have (either working somewhere else or in a different industry), the better off you are.

As for TNA, I've heard that the lower roster talent make as little as $300 per taping (which may include multiple episodes). NO TRANSPORTATION.

Some of the Knockouts have been known to take other jobs. ODB was tending bar while being KO Tag Champ and doing 2 segments a night (one backstage, one wrestling).


Talent doesn't mean squat in WWE. It's all about whether or not Vince has a hard on for you.

That's why Ryback, Bray Wyatt, the Miz, Dolph Ziggler, Sheamus, Mark Henry, and JJ Security are on the main roster while Samoa Joe, KENTA, Rhino, James Storm, El Generico, etc are on the "developmental" brand.

Samoa Joe was main eventing world title matches in TNA and ROH before green ass Ryback even thought about becoming a wrestler.

Ziggler doesn't have main roster talent?
What universe is this?
 
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famicommander

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Ziggler is a fucking hack. It doesn't help that they always give him garbage to work with character-wise (especially his male cheerleader and fake metalhead personas), but he's boring in the ring and oversells the fuck out of everything. Generic as fuck.

But enough of that WWE noise.

AXS TV has been and still is showing Wrestle Kingdom 9 in its entirety. So far they've shown two hours and it's all uncut. Not edited for length and the promos aren't even censored (Kenny Omega said fuck multiple times and they didn't bleep him). It's been great so far and I can't wait until Friday night to see more.
 

Taiso

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Ziggler's problem, as I see it, is that he oversells so much that he's become enhancement talent. He's willing to make anyone look like a monster and accepts any shitty angle they put him in. I think he's exactly the kind of worker creative wants but the problem is that WWE creative is terrible. They're the George Lucas of wrestling and they need some people that can go in and tell them when their ideas suck. And by 'some people' I don't mean Vince.

After Survivor Series, Ziggler should have been rocketed into a main spot. That was his time. It's done now.
 

FilthyRear

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Ziggler is a fucking hack. It doesn't help that they always give him garbage to work with character-wise (especially his male cheerleader and fake metalhead personas), but he's boring in the ring and oversells the fuck out of everything. Generic as fuck.

It's all personal taste. I like Ziggler a lot - the oversells are part of the character. Would you rather he corpse and no-sell all his matches? He leaves it all in the ring with every match I've seen him in. The current WWE product isn't much to watch, but at least with Ziggler I know I'll be entertained.
 

norton9478

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There is a standard for guys that sell: Ric Flair.

If they booked Ziggler right, it could work.
Heel: Beatable Heel. Cocky Brash, and pulls out a win.
Face: Uses Rope a Dope overselling to lure in opponents. Cocky showboating enrages heels and they make a mistake.

Anyways, I've seen Ziggler enough to know that he can work.


I also figured out where his current charecter comes from: Jack Burton.
 

famicommander

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I'm never entertained by Ziggler. First of all if he's on the screen it means there's a comically terrible angle going on (not his fault at all, but still), but I just don't like the flow his matches have.
 

Taiso

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Ziggler doesn't have to corpse. I don't think anybody's saying that.

The problem is that he's not protecting himself at all. He's making himself someone that makes even the most simple of moves turns him inside out and has him gasping in pain, crawling on the ground all the time.

I'm not the only person that says this. A lot of wrestlers in shoot interviews say the same exact thing about him and it makes sense. He's talented, charismatic and has that 'it' factor, but just like with Zach Ryder, he's letting WWE piss all over it. He has to stand up for himself a little more.

Selling is good, but don't act like every clothesline and body slam is like being destroyed by a nuclear bomb. Even when he;'s facing a power guy like Rusev, whips into the turnbuckles, body slams and meat hooks should be sold in just the right amounts. Unless it's a high spot or a signature maneuver, he needs to ease up and sell in the right amount. Dean Ambrose, Randy Orton and even John Cena understand when it's the right time to oversell. And right now, his willingness to make anyone look like Superman and accept whatever table scraps are thrown his way is a big problem if he wants to take that next step.

The Rock was perfect at overselling at just the right time because he got to mount considerable offense in response. Ziggler spends most of his matches looking like a tryhard, like he doesn't belong in there with the others and is just barely getting by. He was overselling as much against four guys at Survivor Series as he does against one during Raw. It's fucked up.
 

Electric Grave

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lol at all this Ziggler talk. There's truth in it though he's too willing to do whatever they want him to do. I don't mind his selling, he's very skilled at it, better than anyone else in the locker room ATM. I agree with the Survivor series momentum, he had it, he could have gone for the WWE belt but hey such is life. His move set has been so stale, it's too bad 'cause he's very capable too, so much potential in there, he could have been one of the greats, who knows, he's still young.

I also feel like Cody is just being so diminished, so hard, so sad.

Tyson Kidd being hurt really bothers me and makes me hate fat ass samoa joe even more than I already do, so overhyped, I laugh at the people bashing some of the WWE wrestlers and then praising goons, really, WTF?!
 

famicommander

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Samoa Joe has delievered thousands of muscle busters in his career and never injured anyone. It was a freak accident, what happened to Kidd. No reason to hold a grudge against Joe. Even great workers sometimes get their partners injured. Vader once broke most of Sting's ribs with a Vader Bomb; just a few weeks back Rollins botched a flying knee and broke Cena's nose.

And if you want to know where the Samoa Joe hype comes from, look into his feuds against CM Punk, Kenta Kobashi, and Bryan Danielson from his first ROH run. He put on a series of ridiculously good matches in that timeframe. And he was amazing in TNA until Vince Russo had him kidnapped by ninjas. His triple threat against Styles and Daniels at Unbreakable is the stuff of legends, and it spurred a great three way feud between them. He also had great matches against Kurt Angle and Christian Cage.
 

Electric Grave

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I understand this happens all the time, hell I was glad Cena got his nose broken and I have to admit he took it like a man, but at any rate, I saw the match with Samoa Joe vs Kobashi, I wasn't impressed but hey I'm glad you and everyone else loved it. TK is one of my favorites and I hate what happened, specially after having a good run with Cesaro as TTCs. Fuck Samoa Joe I don't give a shit how many times he's done the move, he fucked up TK and it's saddening.
 

Undefined

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Hey guys, who do you think would win in a shoot fight?

Kenta Kobashi or John Cena?

Steve Blackman > damn near any wrestler to get in the ring. I wish his prime could have happened alongside UFC as he would be the top fighter pretty easy.
 

norton9478

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I also feel like Cody is just being so diminished, so hard, so sad.

Cody is hands down the best in the company at working the Luchadors. I'd love to see him in Lucha Underground. He is perfect for that show.
 
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Moon Jump

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I'd just like to see Lucha Underground in general. My stupid cable company doesn't carry El Ray Network so I gotta watch shitty YouTube rips of the show. I gotta say it's kind of a corny idea but I don't know why it works. Mixing high flying Mexican wrestling with the drama of a telanovella.
 

norton9478

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I don't know if corny is the word. It is highly stylized (Grindhouse) but not Campy or kitschy.

It took me about 4 episodes to get into it.

I would almost compare it to Z-Nation.
It is a cheap rip off on the surface, but on a deeper level both a parody and homage. Somehow, it ends up being better than what it is aping by taking everything you love about the genre and turning those things up to 11.

angelico-dropkick-o.gif



Kevin Bucky Beaver Dunn can opine all he wants about the day he wins a Primtime Emmy for "Best Variety Show". But I just want some dang wrestling.
 
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famicommander

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Lucha Underground works because it has a coherent tone and direction. It decides what it wants to be early on and then does it all the way, and makes no apologies.
 

norton9478

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Lucha Underground works because it has a coherent tone and direction. It decides what it wants to be early on and then does it all the way, and makes no apologies.

Yeah, I was reading interviews with the creative team and they were like "We don't drop storylines because someone has a bad house show or pisses off the wrong person".
 

Electric Grave

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Cody is hands down the best in the company at working the Luchadors. I'd love to see him in Lucha Underground. He is perfect for that show.

Cody is true to heart a great wrestler, he actually bothered with learning the craft Greco-Roman style and competed state runs, he's been diminished time and again, my favorite run of his was when Goldust came back all skinny and doing clean moves, excellent power slams and great sells, Goldust is a great prowrestler, he may not be the real item but he knows how to work theg system extremely well, he eventually tone down after his comeback, I think age is a factor, so overlooked.

Another fantastic run Cody had was when he had the clear mask, didn't care for the promos but his in ring body language and his leather 3 piece just made him look classy as fuck, amazing prolly my favorite in current WWE, I've always felt for Cody but who are we kidding, he's got Eden, he's doing great! Too bad the last promo he did with Goldust and his father turned out so sour, kinda omnius, wonder if he feels conflicted about it.

On another Cody note, he should work them Ascension guys to wear make up that matches his or him matching theirs with the Sinister outfit, would look awesome. I'm not a big fan of ascension but I enjoyed their run in NXT for a few matches, specially versus the Lucha Dragons, it works well. As for Lucha Dragons...I dunno, I liked Sin Cara before but I feel he has slowed down a lot, I dunno if that's to make Calisto look up to par or what.

Edit: Lucha Underground is great, the last time I watched it I was rooting for Puma hard, this is well before he became champ, I just clicked with the guy immediately.

AAA is not what it used to be anymore, so sad. I grew up with AAA during the days of Atlantis, Blue Devil, Lizmark, Rayo de Jalisco, Hijo del Santo. Now we got their kids running the show and I like some of them but the stupidness and the drama has reached WWE status, I'm not a big fan of dumb stories, I like promos to be entertaining like Flair's and Macho's, vibrant and charismatic, can give 3 shits about on going stories.

My triad never fails. Flair, Macho, Dragon, the best matches ever are between them 3, period. Are they fantastic super wrestlers? Not necessarily but they can grab you and take you for a ride like no one else can.
 
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