MOTW Rank

[it290]

Another gameplay question -- I've been playing a lot of MOTW recently as well, and I was just wondering if this game had some kind of rank system. I've had the game set on level 4 since I got it, but lately my high scores have been increasing (I think about 1.3m is my highest), and the CPU is becoming more vicious, doing things I haven't seen it do before, like using a lot of brake moves and working them into combos. It's kinda cool, but frustrating, since I had been 1ccing the game pretty consistently, and now I'm getting stomped down before I even reach Grant occasionally. Am I just off today, or is the CPU auto-adjusting?

 

[ray_7]

They do get better as you increase the level.

Same thing happened with me in KoF XI. In level 4, they're all pretty manageable, but I once changed it to level 8 and all hell breaks loose. Their combos are sometimes crazy, they even managed to tag-combo me once!!

 

[it290]

Yeah, but I haven't increased the level, I've just been putting in more time and scoring higher.

 

[ray_7]

Oh in that case, it's you then.

When I got tired/sleepy I sometimes can't advance past the 3rd level.

Yeah I know, how lame...

 

[alec]

Dude, you should only play Garou on level 8, anything else and the CPU will never lose a round.

 

[it290]

I assume you mean the reverse?

 

[Takumaji]

Ranks, among other things, determine wether you fight Heinlein or just Grant, for this you have to have an average rank of tripe-A (AAA) or better.

Higher ranks per match balance out lower ones, for ex. if you get a B for a match and follow up with an S, it's possible to still fight Heinlein since it's the average that counts.

Ranks increase by number of combos and number of consecutive combo hits, the use of Supers or Potentials (specially when you DM-kill your opp.), successful Just Defends, Feint moves and other stuff like Breaks, perfects, straight wins, etc.

Ranks decrease by move spamming, playing on lower diff than 4 (MVS), loosing a round, ticking to death (for ex. by hammering on a blocking opp. with a Super), etc.

Basically it's pretty straight-forward, the more skillful you play, the higher the rank.

 

[it290]

Sorry for the confusion, I meant 'rank' in the shooter sense -- ie the game becoming more difficult to compensate for the player's skill -- not the fighting ranks you get after each round.

 

[EX_Andy]

Sorry for the confusion, I meant 'rank' in the shooter sense -- ie the game becoming more difficult to compensate for the player's skill -- not the fighting ranks you get after each round.

Generally speaking, yes. The game gets harder as you bump up the difficulty level, and also as you get past different opponents and closer to the bosses. Also, the CPU is trained to recognize certain patterns that SNK anticipated advanced players will use, such as poking with certain normal attacks and abusing certain special moves. As you play on higher difficulty levels and further into the game, you'll occasionally see the CPU recognize some of your patterns (if you're lapsing into any) and viciously slap you down.

For the record, MOTW's CPU is OK at giving you a decent challenge (and will shut you down if you're having a totally off day). What you need to take down the MOTW CPU is a good knowledge of the game's "overhead" attacks (things you have to block while standing and will hit you if you're crouching), and a good knowledge of normal move priority and what move beats what. Neither of those things is hard to pick up with some practice. (For instance, once you understand these things, you'll understand why Dong Hwan is so challenging to play well, and is arguably the only character who is challenging to play well).

There are also a few dirty tricks if you need them. For instance, if you beat the CPU in an air exchange, once you land on the ground, the CPU will often "forget" to block, so you can continuously hammer away the second you land. Also, the CPU at the highest difficulty levels is more or less immune to Marco's reversals (though Rock's still occasionally work). Brake combos are good to know but not necessary to slaughter the CPU even at level 8. However, if you want to get really "advanced" with the game and use its most high-level (and in some cases, broken) features, learn how to Just Defend (think of it like Street Fighter 3 parrying, but in reverse) which lets you guard cancel, and to use "fake" cancels, which ruin the game, in my opinion. Every character has two fake moves, fwd+ AC or dwn+AC. You can actually cancel the animation of any fake move into another normal move, so you can actually string together multiple normal move hits in between fakes (you can do more or less a full-on infinite with the Kim brothers' close standing D 1 hit, fake, close standing D 1 hit, fake, etc.).

 

[E=MC2]

Another gameplay question -- I've been playing a lot of MOTW recently as well, and I was just wondering if this game had some kind of rank system. I've had the game set on level 4 since I got it, but lately my high scores have been increasing (I think about 1.3m is my highest), and the CPU is becoming more vicious, doing things I haven't seen it do before, like using a lot of brake moves and working them into combos. It's kinda cool, but frustrating, since I had been 1ccing the game pretty consistently, and now I'm getting stomped down before I even reach Grant occasionally. Am I just off today, or is the CPU auto-adjusting?

i think you might be absoluttely right, ive been playing these fighters since 94 and ive noticed the same thing even back then. games like ss, ff, kof & others seem like they get harder the more you play them. sometimes it even seems like the cpu just learned shit from you a day ago, like he wont fall shit he used to fall for just a day ago. also the more shitty you play seems like the cpu wont play a lot better. i only play at 2 levels when i play, either lvl 1 or 8, hardest or easiest. i really wonder if this is the case and of so how the fuck they program shit like that, its pretty impressive to me at least. also even back in the sf2ww days shit seemed like that, or was it just me.....

 

[Takumaji]

i really wonder if this is the case and of so how the fuck they program shit like that, its pretty impressive to me at least. also even back in the sf2ww days shit seemed like that, or was it just me.....

A Neo system or CPS board does not have any facilities to store runtime data when the unit is switched off, except of course for saves, and even when powered on, the amount of RAM of these systems is too limited to store larger chunks of data until the next power cycling.

That's why it's impossible for a Neo/CPS game CPU to learn and memorize the players' moves or tactics. Of course a well-made fighting game engine reacts to move spamming or cheap tactics, but only within a single round/match.

However, many engines feature a number of more or less random subroutines to spice up gameplay and make the CPU-controlled charas slightly less predictable. What's more, some characters have a hidden "rage mode" that lets them become more aggressive when the human player is about to win (e.g. the "Capcom 2nd round rage", etc.).

If you experience some sort of intelligence increase of an engine, it may be just a matter of sloppy gameplay on your side caused by playing the same games with the same charas vs CPU over and over again.

 

[it290]

It has the bookkeeping data as well as the high score save -- it certainly would be possible for the CPU's skill to increase subtly as these values go up, particularly the high scores. Wouldn't require saving the player's fighting data or anything like that.

 

[Takumaji]

It has the bookkeeping data as well as the high score save -- it certainly would be possible for the CPU's skill to increase subtly as these values go up, particularly the high scores. Wouldn't require saving the player's fighting data or anything like that.

But it doesn't. Trust me.

 

[BBH]

I can't think of any 2D fighters that "remember" how a person plays. They always fall victim to the same patterns no matter how many times you play.

I remember hearing that the AI in one (or some?) of the Virtua Fighters would learn from how people played. And then there's the arcade versions of Soul Calibur 2 and Tekken 5, which are supposed to remember how people play characters that they created, and then do their moves when you play against the AI version of that character. I've only seen my "ghost" on Tekken 5 fight against someone else once, and it sure as hell wasn't playing anything like me.