Debug for NeoCD

[stormy]

I am fairly certain that I have seen games like Ironclad with full sound/music.

 

[alphagamer]

I am fairly certain that I have seen games like Ironclad with full sound/music.

The native MVS version of Ironclad has been extracted from the Wii virtual console rom, that's why.

 

[stormy]

Ok, good to know.

 

[Hewitson]

It still is a nice way to play/own some of the more expensive neo games that are costly on both MVS and AES alike. Sure you have load times and such, but I don't see how higher meg games would make it obsolete. It's not like all of the games that were released for it are suddenly gone once some higher meg games come out.

Well what is creating your playability standard then? Is it quality of graphics, meg count...or game play? If you are setting your standards solely on the first two alone, then aren't most neo games getting dated for you? And if so, then how so are your arguments against interest in the NGCD not applied to the other Neo platforms then?

Besides NGCD being a great way for people to get into the Neo at an affordable price (no, not everyone can buy a full MVS cab and no, I don't consider CMVS an affordable route per se either), it deserves it's own spot on the stage with the AES and MVS.

My playability standard in this case is based on nothing but loading times.

An AES with a few common titles is hardly an expensive piece of equipment and a supergun is not difficult nor expensive to make.

The CD audio is a no brainer for me. I'd prefer the music to be actually generated by the hardware over pre recorded sounds any day.

 

[Xian Xi]

The NGCD exclusives can't be converted without losing sound.

I am fairly certain that I have seen games like Ironclad with full sound/music.

The native MVS version of Ironclad has been extracted from the Wii virtual console rom, that's why.

Hopefully SNK releases Crossed Swords 2 as well as Zintrick on the Wii VC.

 

[Hewitson]

Hopefully SNK releases Crossed Swords 2 as well as Zintrick on the Wii VC.

If not, I wonder if it'd be at all possible (or feasible) to patch some custom music into them?

I've just done a search and located a number of MP3 to MIDI converters, I wonder if these would be any good to use on the CD versions? This is of course assuming someone could code a player for them.

 

[metallizer]

The CD audio is a no brainer for me. I'd prefer the music to be actually generated by the hardware over pre recorded sounds any day.

SNK made many small changes is the sound circuitry during their numerous board revisions, so I will have to ask, which one is correct version so that the sound comes off the way the programmers intended it to be?



At least on the neo cd it is happening in the exact way it is supposed to be.

 

[Hewitson]

SNK made many small changes is the sound circuitry during their numerous board revisions, so I will have to ask, which one is correct version so that the sound comes off the way the programmers intended it to be?



At least on the neo cd it is happening in the exact way it is supposed to be.

I can't say I've ever noticed a difference in sound between boards unless bad capacitors are involved. The differences must be very minor.

If you want to get that technical the CD systems don't all sound the same either due to different tolerances in the components.

 

[smkdan]

not much to look at and low on features, but it's injected BIOS code that actually does something. That thing pops up after a game does its first load. Pressing start takes you into the game with applied settings. That is based on the CDZ bios I am pretty sure, the one where the NEO GEO letters in the little startup demo fly around in 3D space, I think that's for the Z. Obviously it's got a long way to go but it's a start.

I will get the demo ROM up soon since I really should know if this thing even works on the real thing, you can't trust CD emulators much with homebrew. I don't think I did anything wrong, just need confirmation. NeoTurfMasta/XianXi you both have modded CDZ consoles that can take a replacement BIOS?

On another note, I dont know shit about how the CD system works but if this is possible let me know. Is it in the bios where the RAM size is set? Like can you use higher capacity RAM and load more info, kinda like the CDZ.

It won't work. Every game was made with the fifty something megabit limit in mind, every game would have to be hacked to take advantage of extra RAM. Faster load times are the only way to go for improvements. If I see a way to get the BIOS to load stuff faster in just software I will do it, just doubting it would be that simple to get big improvements.

if this turns out to be Unibios equivalent for NGCD in the end (with ingame menu pop ups,cheats etc.) then great. Unless something comes up, I can follow through on this since I know how to go about it already.

 

[xiao_haozi]

Good grief that was fast!

 

[Xian Xi]

Awesome dude. As for in-game cheats I think it's more fun to have to enter them like in NES days rather than at your disposal at any time.

I actually have atop loader not a CDZ. Rewiring in a bios shouldn't be a problem if it's just like the MV1C style unibios mod.

 

[Razoola]

not much to look at and low on features, but it's injected BIOS code that actually does something. That thing pops up after a game does its first load. Pressing start takes you into the game with applied settings. That is based on the CDZ bios I am pretty sure, the one where the NEO GEO letters in the little startup demo fly around in 3D space, I think that's for the Z. Obviously it's got a long way to go but it's a start.

Nice, good to see someone else having a go at such things. The beauty about the NeoGeo CD is the fact that one can patch the game code directly (as its in RAM) meaning far more accurate cheats with less side effects.

 

[SNKNostalgia]

I like the idea of this just for uncensored games and playing in English mode.

Example: Metal Slug Combat Missions in English with blood, KOF 94 and 95 without having to input the code during the high score screen, US intro with demo and game being unedited, Samurai Shodown 1 in english with blood etc...

Also, it would be nice to cheat so it is easier to get the good endings on games like FF3 and AOF2.

There is a color edit mode on AOF3 and I don't remember how to unlock it. I think you either beat the game with everyone or beat it on a harder setting. A friend of mine borrowed my single speed back in the day and unlocked it somehow. My CDZ doesn't have the edit mode since I don't know how to unlock it.

 

[NeoTurfMasta]

NeoTurfMasta/XianXi you both have modded CDZ consoles that can take a replacement BIOS?

I will by the end of the day! I know at least James and I will spread the word about getting you some cash for this, you totally deserve it!

Edit: Donation sent!

 

[systmdfect]

Sweets. I'll be donating as soon as I get paid on Friday.

 

[Xian Xi]

Is the Bios is the Neo CD and CDZ both SMD 40 pin?

 

[NeoTurfMasta]

Is the Bios is the Neo CD and CDZ both SMD 40 pin?

Yep. Been digging through all my parts and I'm out of 40 dip sockets. Have to head to the store today... I may not have it ready tonight after all, but definitely tomorrow.

 

[Xian Xi]

We need to get the pinout for the bios. What size is the stock bios 128k/1Mbit?

 

[NeoTurfMasta]

TC54420CF-120

One of my CD system has this. Will look up the info today.

Edit: Cant seem to find a doc on this chip, but I think its a 4Mbit rom, so a 27C400 would most likely be the best bet. I can give it a shot.

 

[DanAdamKOF]

Damn, we have some talented assembly hackers on this forum

 

[metallizer]

One project that has been in my mind for a while is to understand the NGCD cd controller interface and see it there is anything that can talk to it while being also compatible with a IDE or SCSI interface, I think this is the first step to a upgrade path for the NGCD.

So, I gave a quick look at the NeoCD top loader, (possibly front loader as well) cd rom drive controller and the cdz controller.

The cdz does have a different solution using more modern/faster components, but I noticed one thing at the top loader controller, his microcomputer has a high speed model variant that works at the same bus speed but has two times the processing power CXP5084H, maybe worth to try it out if the extra components can take the load as well.

 

[NeoTurfMasta]

half way there... tomorrow have to pick up some sockets. BTW, opening the CDZ reminded me of how many empty RAM slots there on the board.

 

[Xian Xi]

Hey Brian,

Isn't it strange how the inside guts of the CDZ remind you of the Hyper 64?

 

[Pope Sazae]

Would the inside board be any different for a front loader? That is all I currently have at the moment but I'd also like to help out/test/etc. in any way possible.

 

[NeoTurfMasta]

Hey Brian,

Isn't it strange how the inside guts of the CDZ remind you of the Hyper 64?

Yeah, the shield grounding seems similar.

Would the inside board be any different for a front loader? That is all I currently have at the moment but I'd also like to help out/test/etc. in any way possible.

Front loader is completely different and actually has a DIP bios.