BSG finale [Combined thread] (SPOILERS)

[thirdkind]

Loved it.

Loved it, loved it, loved it.

Science vs. religion was given its day, and the answer to the argument is that it doesn't matter, which is sweetly ambiguous.

The very end was a little heavy-handed in driving home the point that we are the present point in the Cylon vs. human cycle, but didn't really ruin it for me.

And Tory's death? So satisfying.

Great finale to a great series. Can't wait to buy the whole thing on Blu-ray in July.

 

[Scuz39]

BSG Ending *Spoilers*

Was that the worst final 20 min of a show ever? Just about drove me nuts.

-Will edit in a bit when I have put my thoughts together...

 

[thirdkind]

-Will edit in a bit when I have put my thoughts together...

Or you could post here once you have some thoughts.

 

[SouthtownKid]

BSG Finish (no spoilers)

Let's see how many variations of the same thread we can make. But I won't be seeing the final episode until tomorrow, so no spoilers. Actually, go ahead. I won't be looking in any thread with the letters B, S, and G until tomorrow night. In fact, knowing you fuckers, I probably ought to just stay off n-g.com in general for the next 24 hours.

 

[Mike Shagohod]

BSG Lives on! (Spoilers from 12 years ago)

Because of the ALPHA 301 I have resurrected the BLOODY SCORPION GROUP of soldiers and I will take over the world. I will have revenge!

 

[Tron]

All i can say is wtf and it's lesson history repeat's itself

 

[payment_due]

Loved it.

Loved it, loved it, loved it.

Science vs. religion was given its day, and the answer to the argument is that it doesn't matter, which is sweetly ambiguous.

The very end was a little heavy-handed in driving home the point that we are the present point in the Cylon vs. human cycle, but didn't really ruin it for me.

And Tory's death? So satisfying.

Great finale to a great series. Can't wait to buy the whole thing on Blu-ray in July.

YYYYYES.

I hated the last bit when they landed in the Stone Age (lame) but it was OK I guess. So what was up with Head-Six and Head-Gaius? Were they Angels/TimeTravelers/Cylon-Immortals? What?

 

[BC_Gambit]

Wow, the amount of nerd rage boiling across the internets about this ending being a "cop out" is entertaining.

For what its worth, I liked the ending.

It tied the show up in a reasonable way. I thought they would end the show with the fleet floating in space, not having found a new home so they could segue into a movie or two.

The people who are complaining that the "deus ex machina" / god's plan ending was a cop out could be right, but considering the amount of discussion in the show about god it at least fits.

The only thing I can smirk at is the whole "...and they have a plan" in reference to the cylons that was written on the screen during the opening credits for most of the show.

It became pretty clear early on the cylons didn't have much of a grand plan.

Lets see: attack colonies... try to impregnate women... when in doubt become overlords of a new human colony... have a civil war.

Yup, there's a great plan woven into there

The best thing about the ending: Engaging "dreamer" mode and heading into my backyard to try to excavate a raptor.

Any ending that even puts that thought into my mind has to be worth something.

 

[Praise the Lard]

I loved it as well. I have been very underwhelmed at many episodes over the course of every season but the first. I feel the story was, in many spots, stretched too thin. I have a feeling fans will narrow the series down to "required episodes" though.

The finale really exceeded all my expectations. I honestly didn't think they would be able to pull it off in a way that would satisfy me, but they did. At times I felt like I was only still watching to see this ride through to the end, and now I am surprisingly glad I did.

That's about all I can say. I'll definitely be watching the whole series again and giving everything a second opinion.

 

[IoriYagami n8]

Given the amount of talk about "this has all happened before and will happen again" as well as the "God's plan" discussions, I'm not at all suprised about the ending and I think it was a solid way to tie the show up. I could tell that when they were giving people visions and doing a lot of stuff early on that they didn't really have the idea of how to bring all that together. The visions didn't have much purpose. Either that, or they were afraid to keep them metaphorical and be accused of not answering a question. The only other gripe was Earth. We saw nuked Earth, which was shown with North America and such. It looked exactly like this Earth. Followed by the second Earth, which showed Africa and looked exactly like (and is) this Earth. I think having the original Earth look just like ours was a cop out to throw people off them finding our Earth in the end. Either that, or when they did it they didn't have any idea on how to end the show yet.

Great series, with some minor issues of being able to tell where they did things later without having planned for them before. You can really tell in some parts where they did something because they wanted to later, but it didn't feel like the ground work to support it was there.

 

[HeartlessNinny]

I hated the ending. I didn't have a problem with the whole god thing in ths show... But mostly because until now I assumed it was just a delusion (like all religions).

So to end the show on the note that god is real, he has a plan, and he created humanity on earth... Fuck that.

Plus the notion that abandoning technology and going back to the stone age is just stupid. What a ridiculous idea for an ending...

I couldn't be more let down by this. BSG was one of my favourite all-time series, let alone one of my favourites from the last few years. What a horrible ending. Fucking Seinfeld's was better.

That said, I'll probably still buy the series blu-ray... But my god. I can't believe how much that sucked after such an amazing show. Ah well.

 

[J. Max]

You guys know that it MIGHT not be the real finale, right?

There is a TV Movie coming called "The Plan" that will hopefully tie up some of these loose ends. All of the nerd rage might be for nothing...

BTW, I just assumed that Baltar and Six were from the Ship Of Lights

 

[thirdkind]

I hated the ending. I didn't have a problem with the whole god thing in ths show... But mostly because until now I assumed it was just a delusion (like all religions).

So to end the show on the note that god is real, he has a plan, and he created humanity on earth... Fuck that.

Wait, what? I don't see how the finale confirmed anything at all regarding the religion argument.

The Baltar/Cavil exchange was the final word on the existence of God. It doesn't matter if all those unexplained experiences are "God" or something else. That was the point. And any suggestions about God's influence after that standoff were still up for debate as well.

And after spending 4 years roaming space in a creaky hunk of metal, I think I'd be happy to drop the technology too. Think about it. What did they really have to take with them? A bunch of remnants of a long-gone civilization that they didn't know how to remanufacture (not that they could with what was available to them). Technology had become a disease, and in fact had almost killed them (Cylons).

Let's say I put you down on a desert island with a helicopter that's low on fuel, a gun with a pile of ammunition, a computer, and the clothes on your back. Once the helicopter is out of fuel, where do you get more? How do you power the computer? When you're out of bullets for that gun, do you make more yourself? Do you even know how?

Everything you do day in and day out is dependent upon a vast infrastructure that's taken thousands of years to develop. If the infrastructure is swept out from under you and all you're left with are your current possessions, it's not really feasible to continue life as you know it.

 

[payment_due]

You guys know that it MIGHT not be the real finale, right?

There is a TV Movie coming called "The Plan" that will hopefully tie up some of these loose ends. All of the nerd rage might be for nothing...

BTW, I just assumed that Baltar and Six were from the Ship Of Lights

I think the plan is just going to be like Ender's Shadow. The series, or at least season 4 through the eyes of the Cylons and/or Cavil's group. I'm pretty sure that what was saw in the season finale were the actual last moments of the series.

 

[Mike Shagohod]

I hated the ending. I didn't have a problem with the whole god thing in ths show... But mostly because until now I assumed it was just a delusion (like all religions).

So to end the show on the note that god is real, he has a plan, and he created humanity on earth... Fuck that.

Plus the notion that abandoning technology and going back to the stone age is just stupid. What a ridiculous idea for an ending...

I couldn't be more let down by this. BSG was one of my favourite all-time series, let alone one of my favourites from the last few years. What a horrible ending. Fucking Seinfeld's was better.

That said, I'll probably still buy the series blu-ray... But my god. I can't believe how much that sucked after such an amazing show. Ah well.

I took the whole thing in as whomever was behind this show (like me) is a HUGE Armored Trooper VOTOMS fan. The whole wrap up is basically the entirety of Story Arc #3: Dead World Sunsa, and Story Arc #4: GOD PLANET QUENT. In VOTOMS, the Quentiens who had gave birth to the "Overmen" that wanted to be GOD, created Wiseman, a planet sized super computer who was looking for a heir to the throne of GOD. The original Quentieans decided to forgo technology and their FTL star travel, and Anti Matter Devices and everything else, and reverted to The Stone Age. Only the Tower of Gomor still standing on the Planet Quent some 3,000 years later (when Chirico Cuvie arrives with both the Balarant Union and Gilgamesh Confederation on his back + the Secret Society) does everything tie in together.

To me BSG's ending was just a slight spin on VOTOMS original story line before even (Takahashi and Sunrise) they decided to "Ret Con" for future stories and shit. But while you're complaining about the final decision... it does make sense. Just because something can be attained, doesn't mean it should. If one has seen the face of GOD, there is nothing left to see, might as well save all others from Madness (see ending of the movie PI), which is what happens to that Russian broad in Indiana Jones IV. Truth will drive one into madness and destroy them. And let's face it. We're all living in GOD's simulation anyhow. No different than "The Matrix" only on a spiritual level versus a technological one, only the creation begat their own creations. Shit, you could bring THE TERMINATOR and the whole Skynet thing into this too if you wanted to. All of it has been done before, and BSG proved that.

 

[J. Max]

I think the plan is just going to be like Ender's Shadow. The series, or at least season 4 through the eyes of the Cylons and/or Cavil's group. I'm pretty sure that what was saw in the season finale were the actual last moments of the series.

I think you're right, but I think we may still get a bit more of the tying up of loose ends.

 

[SouthtownKid]

Loved it.

Loved it, loved it, loved it.

Science vs. religion was given its day, and the answer to the argument is that it doesn't matter, which is sweetly ambiguous.

The very end was a little heavy-handed in driving home the point that we are the present point in the Cylon vs. human cycle, but didn't really ruin it for me.

And Tory's death? So satisfying.

Great finale to a great series. Can't wait to buy the whole thing on Blu-ray in July.

That was pretty much my reaction. I loved the whole thing...except I would have preferred it had ended with the scene of Adama. I choose to ignore the heavy-handed stuff on present day Earth... except I did like the line, "It hates that name."

The other thing I really, really could have done without was Head Baltar and Head Six beating stuff over the head talking to Baltar and Caprica on Earth. And the abandoning ALL technology stuff was a little wtf. But almost everything else, I loved.

 

[BC_Gambit]

And the abandoning ALL technology stuff was a little wtf. But almost everything else, I loved.

I have to take exception to the "abandoning all technology" bit.

Amish people use technology. Organized farming, building houses, making clothes, raising livestock all require technology.

They just wanted to live a simpler life.

I don't think every single human would have been happy with this decision. I would probably be the guy trying to get some like minded people together to try and "borrow" the Tyllium ship before it plunged into the sun.

 

[thirdkind]

I think people are taking Apollo's statement about starting fresh a bit too literally. Adama talks about building his cabin and Baltar mentions his knowledge of farming and cultivation to Six.

It's not a complete abandonment of all knowledge they've acquired, just getting rid of the "baggage" as Apollo calls it: guns, ships, etc.

 

[SouthtownKid]

I think people are taking Apollo's statement about starting fresh a bit too literally. Adama talks about building his cabin and Baltar mentions his knowledge of farming and cultivation to Six.

It's not a complete abandonment of all knowledge they've acquired, just getting rid of the "baggage" as Apollo calls it: guns, ships, etc.

Yeah, the technology. It's impractical in the extreme. They're going to have to hunt for food but not keep guns? I guess that would explain why in the present day scene, archeologists had uncovered the bones of a "young woman" Hera and her human father and Cylon mother. Probably got eaten by lions or something and didn't live beyond "young woman" age. I also don't see the harm in them keeping a few Raptors, so the colonies can at least keep in contact with each other, at least until fuel ran out.

By the way, I really loved the scene between Baltar and Caprica with him deciding to be a farmer.

 

[thirdkind]

By the way, I really loved the scene between Baltar and Caprica with him deciding to be a farmer.

I didn't even fully appreciate this scene until you mentioned it. I forgot about his childhood. That's what I get for not buying season 4 on DVD and watching all those episodes again.

The writers really nailed this final episode. Anyone who says it's a betrayal of the series is a dumbshit.

 

[SouthtownKid]

I didn't even fully appreciate this scene until you mentioned it. I forgot about his childhood. That's what I get for not buying season 4 on DVD and watching all those episodes again.

The writers really nailed this final episode. Anyone who says it's a betrayal of the series is a dumbshit.

...or at the very least hasn't been paying the slightest attention to anything going all the way back to the mini series.

About the Baltar scene, it helped that the wife and I watched the whole 3 hour final episode in one sitting, rather than across two weeks, so that scene showing his father was very fresh in our minds. I also re-watched the whole first half of season 4 (the first time for her) over the hiatus.

 

[HeartlessNinny]

Wait, what? I don't see how the finale confirmed anything at all regarding the religion argument.

The Baltar/Cavil exchange was the final word on the existence of God. It doesn't matter if all those unexplained experiences are "God" or something else. That was the point. And any suggestions about God's influence after that standoff were still up for debate as well.

I dunno man, what am I supposed to think? Crazy stuff has happened throughout the course of the show. People have had visions, blah blah blah, and in the end, Starbuck literally punches in the number from a song people magically heard and it takes them to a planet exactly the same as Earth.

To me the message of the last episode was clear. God is real, he has a plan, and everything has his hand in it. There's no other explaination proffered for what happened.

And that, my friend, is as bullshit an ending as they come. No explanation would have been better.

I took the whole thing in as whomever was behind this show (like me) is a HUGE Armored Trooper VOTOMS fan.

The fact that they could have cribbed this bullshit from someone else just makes it worse.

I still can't beileve how shitty the end of the show was. Fuck Ron Moore. I think it's crappier and crappier more and more with each passing moment.

So much so that I'm starting to change my mind on the whole series. How can I enjoy the visions and flukey shit if it's all a magic man in the sky? It's just lame.

To think Baltar actually saw someone who was talking to him directly... Someone who looked exactly like Caprica for some reason. Someone who is, for all intents and purposes, an angel or otherwise supernatural. No. Just no. I can't enjoy that, not anymore.

 

[Mike Shagohod]

The fact that they could have cribbed this bullshit from someone else just makes it worse.

I still can't beileve how shitty the end of the show was. Fuck Ron Moore. I think it's crappier and crappier more and more with each passing moment.

So much so that I'm starting to change my mind on the whole series. How can I enjoy the visions and flukey shit if it's all a magic man in the sky? It's just lame.

To think Baltar actually saw someone who was talking to him directly... Someone who looked exactly like Caprica for some reason. Someone who is, for all intents and purposes, an angel or otherwise supernatural. No. Just no. I can't enjoy that, not anymore.

I never realized your total revulsion to GOD all this time Ninny, but to each their own I guess. As for the VOTOMS connection, I'm not saying they ripped off the whole series, but there were more than a few similarities. I'm assuming you've never watched the original 52 episode AT: VOTOMS tv series right? Well if not ***SPOILERS For that show after this***

...then you'll be happy to know that the protagonist Chirico Cuvie turns on everyone who's been his friend, shoots at his lover (a "Perfect Soldier" that was a rip off of a *Replicant*) and climbs the tower within Wiseman and accepts his position of the next step in evolution of the "Supreme Survivor" status that was 3,000 years of natural selection in a universe riddled by strife and intergalactic war, all orchestrated by Wiseman... and "accepts" Wiseman's gift to become a living, walking GOD in the Astragius Galaxy, since Wiseman is the collective mind of thousands of Overmen and the knowledge of known time and space but does not have a body, THEN KILLS GOD! Yeah you read that right.

Chirico lies on this techno slab/bed, about to be injected with some Sirit/technological nanobots full of power and supreme intellect and just as he's about to be injected, uses a Bauhauser Armor Magnum to shoot what is revered as GOD, with a .30mm armor piercing anti AT gun at GOD's only vulnerable moment. With Both sides of a galactic federation who never knew GOD but wanted to know him, they feel cheated, and the Secret Society who was doing the bidding of Wiseman is enraged. Chirico finds his lover, whom he was trying to protect and they put themselves into Cryogenic sleep to float in space forever and not be "used" by anyone. "He literally makes the entire universe a much more volatile place after he says" Not Even GOD controls me! and killed GOD.

This leads to the 5-Part 1994 OVA series "The Heretic Saint" more
commonly known as The Shinning Heresy where the entire galaxy
is ruled by what is basically the Catholic Church and Chirico is seen as
"the devil" for what he did. His cold coffin is found and he's revived by
The Church of Marteal, and they hold Fyana hostage, pissed he
wars with this new church some 45 years later, AND KILLS THE POPE
while storming the equivalent of the Vatican in a DANGERDOG A.T. laying
everything and everyone to waste. ***This is the main reason the 1994
series never got released officially in the USA or anywhere else outside of
Japan I'm sure. The Catholics would be in an uproar.

Do you feel better now? There's someone out there who shares your
sentiment and decided to use a show to kill the concept of GOD.

 

[thirdkind]

I dunno man, what am I supposed to think? Crazy stuff has happened throughout the course of the show. People have had visions, blah blah blah, and in the end, Starbuck literally punches in the number from a song people magically heard and it takes them to a planet exactly the same as Earth.

To me the message of the last episode was clear. God is real, he has a plan, and everything has his hand in it. There's no other explaination proffered for what happened.

And that, my friend, is as bullshit an ending as they come. No explanation would have been better.

The fact that they could have cribbed this bullshit from someone else just makes it worse.

I still can't beileve how shitty the end of the show was. Fuck Ron Moore. I think it's crappier and crappier more and more with each passing moment.

So much so that I'm starting to change my mind on the whole series. How can I enjoy the visions and flukey shit if it's all a magic man in the sky? It's just lame.

To think Baltar actually saw someone who was talking to him directly... Someone who looked exactly like Caprica for some reason. Someone who is, for all intents and purposes, an angel or otherwise supernatural. No. Just no. I can't enjoy that, not anymore.

What you call visions, I call transmissions or implanted memories. Some humans had them too, like Roslyn. I'm not convinced that the humans in the show were any less Cylon than the Cylons they created. The endless cycle always has a point where humans and Cylons end up coming together and having kids, just like it did in this case. If so, those kids have Cylon blood, and therefore the ability to carry ancient memories passed down by their parents and receive transmissions from "God".

Now, you assume what they call "God" is somehow spiritual. Note the line from "ghost" (no) Baltar at the very end when "ghost" Caprica refers to "God":

"It hates that name."

It? You think a spiritual God in the classical sense would be referred to by its subjects as "it"?

Your interpretation is narrow. It's apparent that there's some type of force at work here, but in no way is it confirmed to be spiritual, and the finale leaves enough unresolved to let people lean either way. In the Baltar/Cavil exchange, Baltar represents the writers and Cavil represents angry nerds. Cavil is obsessed with the how's and why's, and Baltar is telling him to get over it already because it just doesn't matter what the explanation is.

Contrary to what you've stated, there was no explanation either way. That's why it's so brilliant, and that's why it couldn't have ended better.

I'm imagining a show like The Prisoner being broadcast today and a bunch of angsty nerds calling the last episode bullshit because they don't get it.