Bought a used X-RGB2+...problems :(

[SignOfGoob]

Good News! The XRGB2+ arrived today!

Bad News! It doesn't work!

I have no experience with these units, but I'm pretty sure something is wrong with it. I get no onscreen menus of any kind. The monitor doesn't sync (goes into standby) no sound.

I have no idea what the unit is doing internally, but I get no picture out of it on either my 17" monitor or my 27" TV (which has VGA input). I also get no sound (so my monitors are not the problem). For testing purposes I'm using a Saturn connected via composite and RGB. Before you ask, the first thing I did was make sure my RGB complied to the Japan standard, so no I didn't melt anything.

When I first plugged it in the unit would instantly turn on (both "Power" and "31kHz" lights are lit). The power button did nothing. Then I found the "reset" procedure online and did that ("when the unit is off, hold the left (←) and right (→) arrow buttons on the unit (not remote) and press the power button"). After doing this the unit is in Standby when you plug it in. Once you turn it on it stays on. This is what the seller said it did for him too (although according to him it worked once powered up). A split second after the "Power" light comes on the 31kHz light comes on (even with no source plugged in). I tried forcing it to boot in 47kHz mode btw, no change.

I opened up the unit (looks perfect) and saw several relays in there. I assume that when you switch inputs on a working unit it probably "clicks". Is this the case? I get no clicking noise. I get a "click" when I turn it on, but that's it. I also checked that the Power button wasn't stuck, it isn't. The Power switch works normally when checked with a meter. Everything looks good inside, physically.

My assumption is that the unit is stuck half way through the powering up process, but I don't know. BTW, it will power up from the remote, in exactly the same way, but once again all the buttons do nothing.

Any ideas?

 

[Hewitson]

Testing the voltages output from the power supply should be the first step of any repair.

 

[SignOfGoob]

You're right, and I did. I'm reading about 11.8V from the OEM PS which is supposed to be 12V 1A. Not a deal breaker, but...maybe its really picky.

I've also managed to get the thing to work! But then it dies randomly minutes later. I think the problem might be the PS. It seems relatively OK but it could be dropping out briefly or being weird in some other way. I'm going to try powering it up with something else and see how it behaves. If that goes well I'll have to find a power supply somewhere that will meet this things demands. I'm sure that will be at least $20.

 

[SignOfGoob]

After running OK for a while it quit again and I couldn't manage to bring it back to life with any of my tricks.

I kept looking at this regulator:

...and wondering why the hell it was so crooked. Was this a repair? It certainly doesn't look like it was installed by a machine. This is the first thing other than resistors and caps that the incoming voltage sees.

In an attempt to desolder it and straighten it out...I broke a leg off. Whoops! Now I have to figure out WTF this thing was before I destroyed it and hope it was the problem. The only writing on it was "BAO33S" a "24" and a "12".

 

[Xian Xi]

The thing with the XGB2/2+ is that there was such a mix of PSUs used for both.

What the PSUs were supposed to be were:

XRGB2 - 13.8-14v@600mA
XRGB2+ - 12v@.8 or 1A

But there were a few oddball cases where people with an XRGB2 had a 12v@0.8A PSU and some XRGB2+ owners had a 13.8V@1.2A and vice versa.

So it's possible you might need a stronger PSU, try a 12v@2A or 1.5A.

 

[Hewitson]

You should have left it man.. An IC doesn't care if it's straight or not.

It shouldn't be difficult to work out what it's voltage output was by looking at what other IC's it connects to and referring to their datasheets.

 

[Official Ninja]

If that goes well I'll have to find a power supply somewhere that will meet this things demands. I'm sure that will be at least $20.

Not much of a help, but I run mine with a power supply from a Westell modem router verizon gave me when I had DSL. Works perfectly.

 

[Hewitson]

It'd be much more of a help if you'd said what it's specifications are..

 

[SignOfGoob]

You should have left it man.. An IC doesn't care if it's straight or not.

Well, obviously. It looked pretty fucked up to me though. The two leftmost legs in the picture looked like they might not be positioned on the pads right. I was thinking it might have been a hack repair job.

It shouldn't be difficult to work out what it's voltage output was by looking at what other IC's it connects to and referring to their datasheets.

Yeah, supposedly Micomsoft has really good customer service. I'm going to see what they say when I explain my situation to them. Hopefully they can hook me up with some decent info. I'm not able to find anyone with this exact part # so hopefully there is a compatible one. I've never actually worked with surface mounted voltage regulators before. The XRGB is one of the newest things I've ever messed with.

Hopefully they can also explain the power supply situation to me.

 

[Hewitson]

Well, obviously. It looked pretty fucked up to me though. The two leftmost legs in the picture looked like they might not be positioned on the pads right. I was thinking it might have been a hack repair job.

A simple continuity test with a multimeter would have verified the connections, I believe that regulator is much more likely to be 8AO33S. I was able to find some 8A033 online, but no 8A033S, unfortunately.

Is there any of that leg left at all? If so you should be able to solder something to it in order to replace the pin. Part of a resistor or capacitor leg is what I normally use. It goes without saying you'll have to solder the pin back onto the pad quickly or the part you've just soldered on will come off.

Hope you get it going soon man.

 

[SignOfGoob]

I just got an email from the seller saying that while he did test the unit with his XRGB2+ adaptor, he never actually fired it up with the one he sent me. He suspects the adaptor is bad and is refunding me $10. He lives in HK, where finding a 12V 1A PS is probably really easy, but here in the US, it isn't going to happen. Better than nothing, I suppose...

Anyway, I don't think the PS is the problem regardless. I failed to mention that before I destroyed that regulator I tried powering up the unit with the 12V from my JAMMA test rig (rated 2.5A, actual measured voltage is 12.18V) with wires soldered directly to the XRGB's PCB (bypassing any possible problems with the socket) and got identical results. This is why I started looking at things like regulators. Maybe it needs the 13.8V version. There is no rating on the case of the XRGB itself. I haven't emailed Micomsoft yet, but when I do I hope that they can tell me what the right PS is supposed to be based on serial number or PCB revision (1.1).

As for the regulator, its FUBAR. The leg didn't break off in the normal way. As I was pulling on it the plastic crumbled and the two right legs pulled completely out of the body of the thing. The legs themselves, technically, are actually in tact...they just aren't attached to the IC itself anymore.

As for the numbering, it really is a "B" and not an "8". I checked it with a magnifying glass to be %100 sure.

Another possibility. At one point I wondered (still wonder) if maybe one of the relays might be bad. Since I had nothing better to do I decided to try and swap them. The problem is that in addition to being soldered in they seem to be glued to the board. Maybe this isn't the case, but after some effort with a desoldering braid they still didn't want to budge in the slightest so I just added back the solder. It was after this failed experiment that I was able to actually get the thing to run for brief periods. I tried reflowing all the solder points on all the relays after that, but eventually the thing stopped turning on and that's when I broke the regulator. Perhaps my heating up the relays caused them to work better for a brief period of time? Relays can be really weird sometimes, from my experience. I can easily see a flaky relay causing my issue.

 

[Jaelus]

I had one of these at one point (sold it years ago though) and it had a similar issue. The stock PSUs are garbage. They overheat wildly and burn themselves out. Bought a high quality replacement for it and never had any problems after that.

 

[Xian Xi]

Are you sure they are relays? I've never seen a relay on a singlular voltage device.

 

[shadowkn55]

This should be a suitable replacement PSU if you need one. Jameco item #100870.

http://www.jameco.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?langId=-1&productId=100870

 

[jew90]

I just got an email from the seller saying that while he did test the unit with his XRGB2+ adaptor, he never actually fired it up with the one he sent me. He suspects the adaptor is bad and is refunding me $10. He lives in HK, where finding a 12V 1A PS is probably really easy, but here in the US, it isn't going to happen. Better than nothing, I suppose...

Anyway, I don't think the PS is the problem regardless. I failed to mention that before I destroyed that regulator I tried powering up the unit with the 12V from my JAMMA test rig (rated 2.5A, actual measured voltage is 12.18V) with wires soldered directly to the XRGB's PCB (bypassing any possible problems with the socket) and got identical results. This is why I started looking at things like regulators. Maybe it needs the 13.8V version. There is no rating on the case of the XRGB itself. I haven't emailed Micomsoft yet, but when I do I hope that they can tell me what the right PS is supposed to be based on serial number or PCB revision (1.1).

As for the regulator, its FUBAR. The leg didn't break off in the normal way. As I was pulling on it the plastic crumbled and the two right legs pulled completely out of the body of the thing. The legs themselves, technically, are actually in tact...they just aren't attached to the IC itself anymore.

As for the numbering, it really is a "B" and not an "8". I checked it with a magnifying glass to be %100 sure.

Another possibility. At one point I wondered (still wonder) if maybe one of the relays might be bad. Since I had nothing better to do I decided to try and swap them. The problem is that in addition to being soldered in they seem to be glued to the board. Maybe this isn't the case, but after some effort with a desoldering braid they still didn't want to budge in the slightest so I just added back the solder. It was after this failed experiment that I was able to actually get the thing to run for brief periods. I tried reflowing all the solder points on all the relays after that, but eventually the thing stopped turning on and that's when I broke the regulator. Perhaps my heating up the relays caused them to work better for a brief period of time? Relays can be really weird sometimes, from my experience. I can easily see a flaky relay causing my issue.

12v 1A are really common in the UK, lots of small devices use them... phone, router, cable modem etc.

http://cgi.ebay.com/Original-Linksy...177?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1e61a73221

Thats for a linksys device, not sure the end connector will be the same (you can use the existing one if it isnt) but the power brick itself should be fine

for $5 you cant get better than that..

 

[SignOfGoob]

As I said up there I powered the unit with my 12V arcade PSU which I'm %100 sure is good enough. If this unit wants the 13.8V unit Xian Xi mentioned then I can see that being a problem, but if it only needs 12V 1A then this isn't the issue since I already provided that.

 

[SignOfGoob]

Are you sure they are relays? I've never seen a relay on a singlular voltage device.

Well, cars are fully of relays and almost everything in them is 12V. In a car the purpose of a relay is usually to separate current, not necessarily voltage. For example, the headlights in a car use a relay because you don't really want 2-3A flowing through the headlight switch in your steering column all the time.

Here is the exact relay that is in the XRGB-2+.

There are four of them. There are also four inputs on the unit, so I assume they are there for the purpose of switching sources. During the time when the thing was working I would hear a "click" when I turned the thing on and off, but not while switching sources. I assumed it would click every time a source changed, but it didn't. Can anyone verify this is normal behavior? Should I get a click as I cycle through the sources?

Maybe they are all on all the time and they are just there as a precaution against voltage spikes or something.

 

[Xian Xi]

I know what a relay is dude, I just never thought they'd put them in an XRGB. I always figured it was IC controlled switching.

If it does use those relays and they aren't switching and you don't hear clicking then either they are dead or the regulator feeding them is dead.

 

[SignOfGoob]

During the brief period when the unit was working I would only hear them click when the unit goes on and off, not when switching sources. This would either mean that all four are supposed to be on all the time (odd, IMO) or, as you said, there is a power problem to them.

Maybe one of them is stuck closed and the unit is shutting down because of some built in failsafe? Can someone who owns one of these things verify if the thing clicks (or not) when switching sources?

Regardless, right now I'm stuck until I can get that shattered reg replaced. Minimum quantity on an actual BA033S seems to be 2000, so I'm looking for a substitute.

Stats: http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail&name=BA033SFP-E2-ND (I think thats what I need)

Some of you guys know a LOT more than I do about this stuff, can you suggest a replacement? It seems to be a switching 3.3 V reg with an input range of 4.3-25V. Nothing all that special. Any suggestions? It doesn't absolutely have to be surface mount, but it would fit better if it was.

BTW, I emailed Micomsoft, currently waiting for a reply.

 

[Xian Xi]

You sure there isn't some IC tied to all the power inputs of the relays?

 

[SignOfGoob]

I poked around with a meter for a few minutes and I leaned that two of the relays have one of their pins connected to pin 2 on both the VGA in and out (#2=green, btw) and one of the relays is connected to the audio in/out minijacks.

I'm sure there are a lot more paths to follow there but the main point is that it doesn't look like its one relay per input. They probably are all supposed to turn on at once and stay on, which jives with what I experienced during the 5 minutes where this thing was functioning. Of course, this doesn't necessarily mean the relays are functioning properly. From my experience when a relay is being flaky its really hard to test. They might pass a simple bench test, but still cause problems in actual service.

I'll be in a better position to look into that when I can actually get the thing fired up with a replacement regulator.

 

[Official Ninja]

It'd be much more of a help if you'd said what it's specifications are..

Westell part # 585-200071

12V 1.0A

 

[SignOfGoob]

Does anyone have an opinion on whether or not this would be a suitable substitute regulator?

http://www.rohm.com/products/databook/general/pdf/baxxcc0wt_series-e.pdf

Obviously it won't physically fit, but I can wire it remotely and make sure the heat sink is attached to something.

EDIT: Stats for the part I destroyed:

http://www.mouser.com:80/Search/ProductDetail.aspx?qs=4kLU8WoGk0vVhtLLTOXfrw==

Also, strike my original suggestion, this one looks like a perfect replacement.

http://www.mouser.com:80/ProductDet...r/BA033FP-E2/?qs=4kLU8WoGk0tTt%2bo6l4%2b9AQ==

EDIT EDIT: Never mind, thats a three pin reg. Fuck.

 

[SuperDeadite]

The VGA input is a pass through. When the unit enters stand-by it turns on, and turns off when out of stand by. When you switch between stand-by on and off, the unit makes a quick clicking noise.

 

[jew90]

After running OK for a while it quit again and I couldn't manage to bring it back to life with any of my tricks.

I kept looking at this regulator:

...and wondering why the hell it was so crooked. Was this a repair? It certainly doesn't look like it was installed by a machine. This is the first thing other than resistors and caps that the incoming voltage sees.

In an attempt to desolder it and straighten it out...I broke a leg off. Whoops! Now I have to figure out WTF this thing was before I destroyed it and hope it was the problem. The only writing on it was "BAO33S" a "24" and a "12".

L26 looks a bit dark? is it burned?