The Walking Dead TV series courtesy of AMC.

[Taiso]

I don't think she will be dead. Did anyone watch Talking Dead? Herschel was almost crying, Maggie was almost crying, and Chris was misty eyed. I think it hit Chris fairly hard with his dad dying a couple weeks ago. Carl should lead now. Rick is ineffective. And Bob should get drunk and go back to slangin' rock in the towers.

Yeah, because Herschel smiling when he heard Rick trying to negotiate a peaceful settlement right before 'the big event', thereby approving of Rick's evolution into a good person that others will follow is in no way indicative of his qualifications as a leader.

Shane was bad.

The governor is bad.

These are people that do 'what it takes' to survive.

Rick is about giving people something to live for. Not just breathing and taking up space at any cost.

Everyone that wants Carl to lead, or that doesn't like Rick as a leader, is missing the point. Completely.

 

[terry.330]

Maggie is hot.

irl hot

 

[Wachenroder]

I don't think she will be dead. Did anyone watch Talking Dead? Herschel was almost crying, Maggie was almost crying, and Chris was misty eyed. I think it hit Chris fairly hard with his dad dying a couple weeks ago. Carl should lead now. Rick is ineffective. And Bob should get drunk and go back to slangin' rock in the towers.

Yeah I was thinking the same thing. Really somber Talking Dead. Hell pretty sad Walking Dead episode as well.

Pretty decent mid season finale. Tame as all hell when compared to the comic but that doesn't mean shit anymore. Show keeps me wanting more so they are doing a good enough job. Just wish they went in a little harder on the prison attack. Should have lost a few more important characters but oh well. Looking forward to S4B.

 

[cannonball]

Awesome mid season finale.

Really sad about Hershel, but you have to lose big characters from time to time. It's just the nature of the show.

The baby is probably not dead. Carl's 3rd grade teacher's legacy most likely lives on as awkwardly as it ever has.

Rick has finally hit the balance he needed. He'll be ready to lead even more now than ever before.

 

[SonGohan]

Loved last night's episode. It was scored particularly well, too.

 

[Taiso]

The second half of the episode was emotionally the strongest the show's been since the premiere, and not just because of all the massive changes.

I had a couple of problems with a few elements of the narrative, and felt that at least in one case, the characters were forced to act stupid in order to serve the theme of the episode.

I was especially frustrated, from a creative standpoint, with the governor's 'new daughter's' fate. Not specifically that it happened, but I felt how it was shot was just all wrong. I have a hard time believing that with the mother and daughter being the only ones by the river, that she wouldn't have pulled her closer to her the second she saw a walker on the other side of the river.

I understand the philosophical aspect of the scene-she desperately wants to believe in the governor, and she thinks that if the walker doesn't make it across, she can rest comfrotably knowing that his assurances were true. But I don't believe that her feelings in this would override her desire to protect her daughter, especially with her playing in the mud twenty feet away from a forest. Again, they're the only two people out there, and I can't see any mother that loves her daughter allowing the child to remain so far away from her as long as their proximity can be controlled. It's not like Carol and Sophia, where they just got separated and no one could control it.

I'm not going to argue about it because I don't believe any rationale justifies the plot point. I think they could pulled that scene off in the same amount of screen time with better writing that achieves the same end without costing them anything in narrative integrity.

I also thought the confrontation between Rick and the Governor, when they started doing their Kirk-Kahn thing could have gone off better. Thematically, it feels wrong for the Governor to have the upper hand on Rick when they're rolling around in the mud and grass. I'd have rather seen the characters slotting into their natural roles, and the Governor needing to resort to trickery like a wrestling heel to gain the advantage.

I don't mind that Rick was almost choked out. But a clean victory for the Governor just makes Rick look a little weaker and incapable, and after his strong, commanding performance when he was negotiating and proving that, yes he is THE MAN, it kneecapped him just a bit.

I didn't even mind Michone saving him. I just wish it would have been written in a way that reinforces Rick's newfound strengths and direction, rather than portraying him as both strong and then weak. Weak and then strong would have been better and would have served the character better.

But I am just being critical of the narrative on a creative level here. Overall, the episoe was very strong and for the first time since before the series premiered, I am really eager to watch the coming episodes.

 

[90s]

I was especially frustrated, from a creative standpoint, with the governor's 'new daughter's' fate. Not specifically that it happened, but I felt how it was shot was just all wrong. I have a hard time believing that with the mother and daughter being the only ones by the river, that she wouldn't have pulled her closer to her the second she saw a walker on the other side of the river.

I understand the philosophical aspect of the scene-she desperately wants to believe in the governor, and she thinks that if the walker doesn't make it across, she can rest comfrotably knowing that his assurances were true. But I don't believe that her feelings in this would override her desire to protect her daughter, especially with her playing in the mud twenty feet away from a forest. Again, they're the only two people out there, and I can't see any mother that loves her daughter allowing the child to remain so far away from her as long as their proximity can be controlled. It's not like Carol and Sophia, where they just got separated and no one could control it.

I'm not going to argue about it because I don't believe any rationale justifies the plot point. I think they could pulled that scene off in the same amount of screen time with better writing that achieves the same end without costing them anything in narrative integrity.

Thematically, it feels wrong for the Governor to have the upper hand on Rick when they're rolling around in the mud and grass. I'd have rather seen the characters slotting into their natural roles, and the Governor needing to resort to trickery like a wrestling heel to gain the advantage.

I don't mind that Rick was almost choked out. But a clean victory for the Governor just makes Rick look a little weaker and incapable, and after his strong, commanding performance when he was negotiating and proving that, yes he is THE MAN, it kneecapped him just a bit.

I didn't even mind Michone saving him. I just wish it would have been written in a way that reinforces Rick's newfound strengths and direction, rather than portraying him as both strong and then weak. Weak and then strong would have been better and would have served the character better.

I felt frustrated watching the scene where the little girl died. Why not just keep her inside, or at least within arms reach? Despite any rationale that could have made the mother think it was safe in that area, I think a parent would have been more cautious. I agree with you that this scene was a bit illogical.

As for the confrontation between Rick and the Governor, I think it was satisfactory. Rick was wounded and looks to be physically smaller than the Governor, so I don't mind the way the confrontation played out. I wish the Governor's death could have been a bit more epic and unpredictable.

It was a very good episode overall, but I think it could have used more main character deaths. At the same time, I also feel like the new characters we were introduced to in the previous episode were wasted as they were killed off so quickly. I don't think the baby is dead; the Governor's new family will probably picked her up. And I feel a bit lost as my favourite character is now dead and I don't feel the drive to watch the show as much anymore. I tend to like the villains better and felt the same way when Shane was killed off.

 

[wyo]

Yeah I was thinking the same thing. Really somber Talking Dead. Hell pretty sad Walking Dead episode as well.

Pretty decent mid season finale. Tame as all hell when compared to the comic but that doesn't mean shit anymore. Show keeps me wanting more so they are doing a good enough job. Just wish they went in a little harder on the prison attack. Should have lost a few more important characters but oh well. Looking forward to S4B.

Damn, I need to read the comic I guess! I thought the episode was very intense. It was almost like watching Game of Thrones, only with zombies. I'm not sure where the series goes from here though. I mean, how can they top THAT?!

 

[SonGohan]

Damn, I need to read the comic I guess!

The comic is really good. Saying the TV series is "tame as hell" in comparison is a bit much, I think. The TV show is pretty brutal, especially last night's episode. Seeing the Governor hack away at Herschel's head and blow the face off that girl so she didn't turn was pretty fucking violent. But yeah, check out the comics anyway. There's a lot to catch up with, but by all means don't rush. Take your time with each volume and really soak everything in. They're great.

 

[Wachenroder]

The comic is really good. Saying the TV series is "tame as hell" in comparison is a bit much, I think. The TV show is pretty brutal, especially last night's episode. Seeing the Governor hack away at Herschel's head and blow the face off that girl so she didn't turn was pretty fucking violent. But yeah, check out the comics anyway. There's a lot to catch up with, but by all means don't rush. Take your time with each volume and really soak everything in. They're great.

I don't want to spoil anything for anyone here who hasn't read the comic so I wont specify anything.

The end of the prison arc alone was so much more raw then the shows and i'm sure you have an idea of why I say that. Just going off of the decapitation scene. The way it was depicted in the comic was so nasty. The way it was drawn, the angles, the sound captions...they made you watch the whole gruesome thing. Not to mention all the fucked up things that happened in the prison and in Woodberry during the prison arc. The Governor was so much more of bastard in the comic and I feel the things he did were so much more heinous. I also think the Gov was a bit likable on the tv show while I hated that fuckers guts in the comic.

 

[Cylotron]

I also think the Gov was a bit likable on the tv show while I hated that fuckers guts in the comic.

which makes me wonder if they'll have us warming up to Negan

 

[SonGohan]

I don't want to spoil anything for anyone here who hasn't read the comic so I wont specify anything.

The end of the prison arc alone was so much more raw then the shows and i'm sure you have an idea of why I say that. Just going off of the decapitation scene. The way it was depicted in the comic was so nasty. The way it was drawn, the angles, the sound captions...they made you watch the whole gruesome thing. Not to mention all the fucked up things that happened in the prison and in Woodberry during the prison arc. The Governor was so much more of bastard in the comic and I feel the things he did were so much more heinous. I also think the Gov was a bit likable on the tv show while I hated that fuckers guts in the comic.

But the show isn't "tame as hell by comparison," which was the only thing I argued against. What's even more amazing is how fucking brutal they are on cable TV.

 

[Wachenroder]

But the show isn't "tame as hell by comparison," which was the only thing I argued against. What's even more amazing is how fucking brutal they are on cable TV.

I agree about the cable TV part and I am surprised at some of the stuff they were willing to do but it definitely feels watered down a lot to me.

Comic Spoilers

Spoiler:

-Gov repeatedly brutally raping Michonne (This was so fucked up)
-Tyrese getting hacked up the way he did (My favorite character getting killed like that was hard to watch)
-Lori getting blasted and crushing the baby (Damn killed Ricks and caused her to smash the baby, 2 birds 1 stone)
-the serial killer rapist who sliced up Andrea, and cut off those 2 little girls heads
-All the suicide (I wish they'd let a main character off themselves. They touched on it a little with Beth and that was it)
-The sheer number of main/popular characters that were killed in the prison attack versus the one they killed on the show and he was a crippled old man.

That's all I can think of right now but these hit me way harder then anything in the show. Especially by comparison. I understand that some of these subjects are uncomfortable and that's why they don't use them but I feel like that's part of what makes the comic good.

Now that I think about it, Lori's death was pretty fucked up. They had to slice her open and then Carl had to kill his own mom. That was pretty fucking brutal so yeah the show does have its moments.

 

[SonGohan]

The worst thing about the show is whenever Rick mentions Carl's name. If he's yelling it, it's especially painful to my ears.

I need to go back and read the comic again. It's been forever since I have. I remembered most of the stuff you brought up, but there's some others that completely slipped my mind. There are scenes in the show where they come up on a house or camp where somebody has killed themself. In the first season those people stayed back and let themselves be killed when that self destruct shit went down.

 

[F4U57]

The Governor was so much more of bastard in the comic and I feel the things he did were so much more heinous. I also think the Gov was a bit likable on the tv show while I hated that fuckers guts in the comic.

This.

The comics left me utterly speechless...

 

[F4U57]

 

[Taiso]

I also have a bit of a hard time believing that the Governor's people would just stand there and watch him kill a defenseless old man after Rick's plea bargain, which seemed to be getting through to many of them.

As they're very community oriented people, militant or not, that have bonded together in order to survive, the fact that none of them voice their opinion or do anything as this new guy that just sauntered in and took over under dubious circumstances murders a hostage in front of them all, it's all just very incredulous for it to have happened in such a compressed period of time.

However, I admit that I might have missed something in the narrative. Perhaps the Governor was leading these people for a very long time, and legitimately earned their trust and support, before springing the prison attack idea on them.

But still...those people weren't hardened killers. They weren't murdering otehr people as a way of life. And suddenly, they just uncomfortably bear it as they watch the Governor brutally murder an elderly person?

I know they only have an hour per week to tell their story, but this is one of those instances where decompresion and taking their time to tell the story would have served them better.

But do not take this to mean I think people are stupid for liking the finale. I still really enjoyed it. It can't be perfect. This show has never been perfect.

And I also don't bother wasting time comparing the comic with the show anymore. At the start, I was big about that, but the show has become its own thing. And more brutal doesn't necessarily equal better.

Also, there's nothing to like about the Governor except as a character that fills a role. From the start, the guy's been a prick. He's Shane on steroids, and Shane was already a grade A jackass once the world went to hell. Holding on to what matters is the theme of this series, not letting go of humanity in favor of breathing in an amoral state.

 

[norton9478]

Comic Spoilers

Spoiler:

-Gov repeatedly brutally raping Michonne (This was so fucked up)
-Tyrese getting hacked up the way he did (My favorite character getting killed like that was hard to watch)
-Lori getting blasted and crushing the baby (Damn killed Ricks and caused her to smash the baby, 2 birds 1 stone)
-the serial killer rapist who sliced up Andrea, and cut off those 2 little girls heads
-All the suicide (I wish they'd let a main character off themselves. They touched on it a little with Beth and that was it)
-The sheer number of main/popular characters that were killed in the prison attack versus the one they killed on the show and he was a crippled old man.

Don't forget the thing with Tyrese's daughter and her boyfriend. Something they could have done in the show since they did have similar characters.

 

[Wachenroder]

Don't forget the thing with Tyrese's daughter and her boyfriend. Something they could have done in the show since they did have similar characters.

I didn't forget. Its not specified but I did list it. That part had me rolling in the show. The way Tyrese explained the situation after finding the bodies. I had to rewind it a couple of times it was so funny. It was not at all funny in the comics.

 

[arbormatt]

Yeah, because Herschel smiling when he heard Rick trying to negotiate a peaceful settlement right before 'the big event', thereby approving of Rick's evolution into a good person that others will follow is in no way indicative of his qualifications as a leader.

Shane was bad.

The governor is bad.

These are people that do 'what it takes' to survive.

Rick is about giving people something to live for. Not just breathing and taking up space at any cost.

Everyone that wants Carl to lead, or that doesn't like Rick as a leader, is missing the point. Completely.

Herschel was smiling(in my opinion) because Rick was trying to find a non violent compromise. In Herschel's mindset, and mine to some degree, everyone needs to try and band together to be able to survive. The bleakness and certainties of this new world necessitate a coalition of man which transcends the pettiness of human trivialities.

I was kidding about Carl being a leader. At least at this point.

If Rick was serious about being a leader they would have left the prison a long time ago. Their world was crashing down around them. Sickness, walkers, walls coming down.. Sustainable farming can't keep anyone safe.

What anyone of intelligence would do is find a boat and fuel and head for a fucking island way the hell out somewhere.

Hilton Head would probably work since they are in the South.

 

[cdamm]

I also have a bit of a hard time believing that the Governor's people would just stand there and watch him kill a defenseless old man after Rick's plea bargain, which seemed to be getting through to many of them.

As they're very community oriented people, militant or not, that have bonded together in order to survive, the fact that none of them voice their opinion or do anything as this new guy that just sauntered in and took over under dubious circumstances murders a hostage in front of them all, it's all just very incredulous for it to have happened in such a compressed period of time.

However, I admit that I might have missed something in the narrative. Perhaps the Governor was leading these people for a very long time, and legitimately earned their trust and support, before springing the prison attack idea on them.

But still...those people weren't hardened killers. They weren't murdering otehr people as a way of life. And suddenly, they just uncomfortably bear it as they watch the Governor brutally murder an elderly person?

I know they only have an hour per week to tell their story, but this is one of those instances where decompresion and taking their time to tell the story would have served them better.

But do not take this to mean I think people are stupid for liking the finale. I still really enjoyed it. It can't be perfect. This show has never been perfect.

And I also don't bother wasting time comparing the comic with the show anymore. At the start, I was big about that, but the show has become its own thing. And more brutal doesn't necessarily equal better.

Also, there's nothing to like about the Governor except as a character that fills a role. From the start, the guy's been a prick. He's Shane on steroids, and Shane was already a grade A jackass once the world went to hell. Holding on to what matters is the theme of this series, not letting go of humanity in favor of breathing in an amoral state.

they didnt just sit there. look at them. a bunch of them are wincing. one bugged out. once that cut to herschel happened they knew the only people that could get them out was each other. They were also briefed as to how the people at the prison 'destroyed' the governors town. How evil and violent they were. they were there ready to go to war. it wasnt just like they marched up and took it.

 

[evil wasabi]

I also have a bit of a hard time believing that the Governor's people would just stand there and watch him kill a defenseless old man after Rick's plea bargain, which seemed to be getting through to many of them.

As they're very community oriented people, militant or not, that have bonded together in order to survive, the fact that none of them voice their opinion or do anything as this new guy that just sauntered in and took over under dubious circumstances murders a hostage in front of them all, it's all just very incredulous for it to have happened in such a compressed period of time.

However, I admit that I might have missed something in the narrative. Perhaps the Governor was leading these people for a very long time, and legitimately earned their trust and support, before springing the prison attack idea on them.

But still...those people weren't hardened killers. They weren't murdering otehr people as a way of life. And suddenly, they just uncomfortably bear it as they watch the Governor brutally murder an elderly person?

I know they only have an hour per week to tell their story, but this is one of those instances where decompresion and taking their time to tell the story would have served them better.

But do not take this to mean I think people are stupid for liking the finale. I still really enjoyed it. It can't be perfect. This show has never been perfect.

And I also don't bother wasting time comparing the comic with the show anymore. At the start, I was big about that, but the show has become its own thing. And more brutal doesn't necessarily equal better.

Also, there's nothing to like about the Governor except as a character that fills a role. From the start, the guy's been a prick. He's Shane on steroids, and Shane was already a grade A jackass once the world went to hell. Holding on to what matters is the theme of this series, not letting go of humanity in favor of breathing in an amoral state.

There was a lot about the last episode that was done plain wrong. Morrissey's acting was very off, especially around his camp. There was no feeling of presence. It was like he was walking around a set, rather than a campsite in the middle of the post apocalypse.

I hate Darryl's jacket. It's too 1998 anime.

Overall, the writers dropped the ball. But at least we know that the hunters are on the horizon.

 

[Taiso]

Herschel was smiling(in my opinion) because Rick was trying to find a non violent compromise. In Herschel's mindset, and mine to some degree, everyone needs to try and band together to be able to survive. The bleakness and certainties of this new world necessitate a coalition of man which transcends the pettiness of human trivialities.

He approved of Rick's actions and words, which qualifies him to be a leader in Herschel's eyes. As Herschel was the unquestioned moral center of the show and the show is about humanity over survival instinct, the theme is that Rick is qualified to lead.

If Rick was serious about being a leader they would have left the prison a long time ago. Their world was crashing down around them. Sickness, walkers, walls coming down.. Sustainable farming can't keep anyone safe.

It was a council decision to stay. Rick was deferring to the community's desire. Yes, some people were voicing the opinion that they should go, but it was never put to a formal vote. Guess they really didn't want to leave at all. They were probably all being hopeful that they would just get through it by pulling together and staying positive, rather than abandoning a community.

What anyone of intelligence would do is find a boat and fuel and head for a fucking island way the hell out somewhere.

Hilton Head would probably work since they are in the South.

With that large of a group and not nearly enough supplies to sustain a movement effort like that, and no guarantee that they can even find a working boat, its risky. At the prison they had walls, a community and individual living spaces.

So I disagree with your general assessments. But we cool.

they didnt just sit there. look at them. a bunch of them are wincing. one bugged out. once that cut to herschel happened they knew the only people that could get them out was each other. They were also briefed as to how the people at the prison 'destroyed' the governors town. How evil and violent they were. they were there ready to go to war. it wasnt just like they marched up and took it.

In the span of a single episode, he had them ready to murder helpless one legged old people on his say so.

In a world where it's difficult to trust anyone.

This is why I said decompression is important sometimes. It helps build credibility and the storytelling is organic and character driven, rather than driven by the theme and the plot point.

I think my criticism of the pacing and the execution of the plot point is still valid.

 

[Castor Troy]

I've only managed to watch the first 5 minutes of this season's premier episode.
I haven't read any spoilers.
Seriously, is this season better or worse than the previous one?
I want to catch up, but last season had some pretty awful moments that I find it hard to want to catch up.
Thnx.

 

[arbormatt]

I've only managed to watch the first 5 minutes of this season's premier episode.
I haven't read any spoilers.
Seriously, is this season better or worse than the previous one?
I want to catch up, but last season had some pretty awful moments that I find it hard to want to catch up.
Thnx.

This season is pretty good. Then again I am one of the few that enjoyed the second and the whole farm saga.

What I really believe is that no one right now is a good leader. No one is answering the tough questions. Let's find some scientists and keep them safe and try to work out a cure. Yeah, the governor was sorta working on it. Yeah the cdc guy went all goth. Jesus Christ. Everyone is infected and they will turn. Everyone born will turn. Everyone you love or think you love will turn. Find sanctuary and start experimenting. There has to be a vaccine. Find hostile humans that want to kill you? Free test trials. The idea of morality is gone. How can civilization uphold a sense of righteousness when we all know what's lurking behind one wrong misstep. That is what is so great with this show. It is the classic parable. The problem is that the end game is skewed and everything is for nought. So who can cross the line and make the hard decisions to set forth a decisive plan to lunge for progress. I don't believe anyone currently on the show is up for that. Maybe Carol? She will come back. Did anyone read the article that compared this to Lost? Groups wandering around... Close but far. Let's all hope it doesn't play out like that. Grab a core team and get shit done. Get the fuck out of a highly populated area.