NGF's New Neo Release Revealed!

[evil wasabi]

Originally posted by sha-v:
<strong>

Most of a game is written in C/C++

If they were written in pure assembly you wouldn't seen a NG on any other platform (with even the same bugs).</strong><hr></blockquote>

not on neo.

every console game before playsatation was made in assembler basically. why do you think saturn was made the way it was? for pure hard core code. it wasnt made to support libraries and stuff.

sony changed the market with their dev kits, with libraries, and easy c/c++ crap.

maybe thats why most neo ports were so bad, because snk couldnt handle it. <img src="graemlins/makeface.gif" border="0" alt="[Make Face]" />

and the bios doesnt really count, everything needs a bios. its the basic input output system

edit:

and about the devkit. if there even is one, the drivers, libraries, etc, would be so outdated you wouldnt be able to do much more than what the early releases did. you arent going to program MotWs with a devkit <img src="graemlins/ohno.gif" border="0" alt="[Oh No]" />

[ July 10, 2002: Message edited by: sonic1687 ]</p>

 

[Bluevoodu]

I just want to makea couple side scroll shooter games. Pulstar must have been made off the devkit..... Ghost pilots, Andro Dunos, and last resort must have been too.

I don't want to make any fighter games.. I am getting somewhat tired of them. I want more good sidescroll shooter games... so I want to see if I can make a great one.

Anyone know some killer sprite creators/editors?

Does anyone remember UN Squadron on the SNES? That is my favorite side scroll of all time...most fun 1 I have ever played... with a 2nd being pulstar.

I want to play Blazing star.. but not enough money on my end....
I have an idea... who wants to send me their blazing star cart so I can play it I will send it back.. I just want to play it lol..

†B†V†

 

[sha-v]

Originally posted by sonic1687:
<strong>

not on neo.

every console game before playsatation was made in assembler basically. why do you think saturn was made the way it was? for pure hard core code. it wasnt made to support libraries and stuff.

sony changed the market with their dev kits, with libraries, and easy c/c++ crap.

maybe thats why most neo ports were so bad, because snk couldnt handle it. <img src="graemlins/makeface.gif" border="0" alt="[Make Face]" />

and the bios doesnt really count, everything needs a bios. its the basic input output system

edit:

and about the devkit. if there even is one, the drivers, libraries, etc, would be so outdated you wouldnt be able to do much more than what the early releases did. you arent going to program MotWs with a devkit <img src="graemlins/ohno.gif" border="0" alt="[Oh No]" />

[ July 10, 2002: Message edited by: sonic1687 ]</strong><hr></blockquote>

Then explain me how the same bugs are in ports and on the original? If it were programmed in ASM on Neo they must completly new create a the game for the port. -> There is only one reason, because it is written in an high level language. Dont tell me they ported the bugs from ASM to C/C++

Btw, why should C/C++ be crap?

 

[RabbitTroop]

OK, you have a point, but they also may just be porting the engine to the console. Neo games to other systems are not direct ports and as such usually use new sprites and music. Also, there has been talk for a while that Playmore could just port Mame or some other type emulator for other systems then create much easier ports. As for the reason the bugs exsist... like what exactly? I just can't think of any off the top of my head.

As for C/C++ being bad. No, they are not bad, there is just way to much overhead in the function calls. Especially C++, there is not a game developer out there that would choose C++ over C, I could see maybe a combo of the two, but I can tell you for a fact that most EA games for PC are in C... most PSX games are in C/Assembly. I don't know about PS2, I would imagine it is also C/Assembly.

So as for the ports, that is a good point, I can't explain short of simply porting the engine (maybe that is why it took MOTW so long to come out, same with KOF2K and MS3). I do know that Nightmare Tony, an old tech for SNK, says that almost all games are 100% Assembly these days, ask him if you want more info, he may be better to answer this question then I

-Nick

 

[HPMAN]

No C/C++, no port.

Come on, neo bios which is 128k, not even filled, already is 15000+ lines of asm code. Newest releases weights at several megabytes program code...

If it would be 100% asm, no company (like eolith etc...) would be making neo games nowadays.

Some parts certainly can be asm, but most of the program code must be written in high level language.

 

[Bluevoodu]

my .... how topics change

could someone drop me an email on a good place for a NOOB to start programming in C... etc. I need some REAL good information on how;/where to start.

thanks,
†B†V†

 

[HPMAN]

Originally posted by Bluevoodu:
<strong>my .... how topics change

could someone drop me an email on a good place for a NOOB to start programming in C... etc. I need some REAL good information on how;/where to start.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Let's start simply...

#include <stdio.h>

int main(void) {
printf("Hello world\n");
return(0);
}

Congratulations, you're now a skilled C programmer

 

[Bluevoodu]

lol!

I hate that simple project lol

I didthat in Visual Basic. I did some OOP with VB.... but thats it. OOP is hard as heck.

I meant links to sites that might have some good information that you or someone discovered.... that is MORE helpful than the rest.


†B†V†

 

[sha-v]

LOL

After HPMAN's C intoduction you are ready for this:http://www0.us.ioccc.org/main.html

And after studing the entries you are ready to write code like that: <a href="http://www0.us.ioccc.org/2000/bellard.c" target="_blank">http://www0.us.ioccc.org/2000/bellard.c</a> or <a href="http://www0.us.ioccc.org/2000/rince.c" target="_blank">http://www0.us.ioccc.org/2000/rince.c</a>

 

[m_bish0p]

yeah, when I was programming for the GameBoy it was all assembly, now they're doing everything in C++, and C for the color and advance. I imagine it was the same for the neo-geo, just because a good C compiler is going to put out faster and tighter code than an average assembly programmer.

Also, I think the 'engine' theory is very likely. I doubt they rewrote KOF from scratch every time.

If anyone does get a hold of some dev info I'd like a PM.

thanks!

 

[RabbitTroop]

Well, if you can get a Neo game working in C then I would be impressed. But, all you would need are the libraries and compiler... Vektorlogik was making a new Dev sweet. I bet if you write them they would atleast give you a heads up on what they have learned writting this new devlopment environment.

As for Bluevoodu, you sound like you are pretty new to programming, and game programming in general. Not that you can't do it, but a Pulstar type project may be a bit to ambitious for your first outing. I would recommend first learning the freeware Gameboy tools. They are simple and are pretty well documented (plus you can use C or Assembler!). The GBDK is only one of many, and there are so many sites with sample code, how to, etc, etc. That would probably be your best intro to console programming. Then, believe it or not, the step to Neo would not be that bad, especially since the share similar processors and limitations.

-Nick

 

[Professor_Mayhem]

Dion has posted some new bullshi... news.

After a long amount of consideration from the many numerous emails and requests we've received, we have pretty much finalized our debut titles. This year we will be debuting an astonishing 3 lost titles. Yes, that's right 3 titles!!!!
We will have these 2 titles Neo Pool Master and Last Odyssey.... and another lost title for UNDER $499.99 (last title is still up for draw between 2 titles). With these 3 great lost titles any and all NeoGeo fans who attend the CGE will be able to expand their NeoGeo AES collection yet a little further. We are providing these titles for the true NeoGeoFreaks, fans, and collectors alike who attend the CGE2K2 show.

Normally these titles are reserved for our status ranked members, but we are allowing this open sale for all CGE attendees. Quantities are limited at the show, but we will back order/make any extra titles if we sell out past our expected amounts. We will be limiting sales to only 2 or 3 per person. Send in your registry today to reserve your copy. Send registries to sales@neogeofreak.com

This is yet another service we at NeoGeoFreak/NGF-USA do for all the serious NeoGeo fans.

"Yes, We are NeoGeoFreaks!"


thank you,

Dion
NGF-USA
<a href="http://www.NeoGeoFreak.com" target="_blank">www.NeoGeoFreak.com</a>


-The Reverend 330 Mega

 

[evil wasabi]

well, i know c isnt crap.

its jsut what killed the saturn.

all console games prior to psx had been in assembly, and sega obviously assumed they would continue, but thats not how it was.

psx had tons of easy to use dev kits, so all the lazy programers could use c and stuff, no hard core assembly.

saturn launced with extensive documentation on all the chips, so you could whip up anything in assembly, but thats not what devers wanted now that psx was using c. thus the loss of all thoes developers.

saturn was too complicated to beable to use a devkit and get decent performance out of it..

 

[Takumaji]

Originally posted by Bluevoodu:
<strong>I am working ro figure out how to program these games I am talking to a few people.

I actually found a dev kit for the Atari Jaguar I am going to pick up and give a shot at Heck ... why not. The only problem is the people who sell it, don't give any coding help what-so-ever lol..... I said "PLEASE!!!" they said, "nope, you have to figure out how to start on your own". lol.... well... maybe they are covering their butts since they make games too

Then I am going to find a neo dev kit... I will I tell you.

†B†V†</strong><hr></blockquote>

You know, it's basically impossible to show one how to code in, say, C or assembly language without the proper background.

C or C++ is a high level programming language, that means that stuff which would take ten asm code lines could be done in one C code line... it's a very rough example, but you get the picture.

On the other hand, asm is much faster than C, because C is a compiler language which has to be "converted" (read: compiled) to an asm object. Asm is directly connected with the hardware you're coding on. It's not "machine code", tho. This is a common misconception, some ppl always brag about being able to code in machine code... this would be something like: 00001001001100001001111010101000010100 (and $1 for anyone who can translate this ).

So - to comment on the statement that "nobody uses asm in modern game programming anymore" - this is basically correct. But it's simply impossible to reach the speed of asm in C on a m68k. That's why most Amiga games for ex. (the Amiga is a machine using an m68k and several custom chips, "Blitter", "Paula", "Agnus", "Copper", etc.) are coded in asm, at least the CPU-intensive parts (object rotation, stencil textures, objects (e. g. blobs) moving in sinus curves, etc.pp.).

Ask Blastar - he coded his Neo Tetris in pure m68k asm.

If you want to learn m68k assembly language for programming games for the Neo, you HAVE TO know your hardware, that is the Motorola 680000 CPU itself, and of course the Neo's custom hardware.

I PM'ed you a link to the official m68k faq, which contains lots of links to dev tools and docs, inhale it thoroughly and check some of the links... it's no piece of cake, sure, but, apart from the 386-based (PC)-CPUs, you prolly won't find a better documented CPU than the m68k.

Hey Blue, by any means, go for it. I appreciate your efforts. It's good to see some idealistic ppl again!

 

[Bluevoodu]

I knew some machine code... I had a few operating systems classes... and network security classes.

We were working with Linux... and I think the hexidecimal system.... brainbusting stuff.

I have a C course coming up soon... maybe within 1 year. I hope this class helps.

I am ambitious... but this is starting to sound way more complicated than my VB programs I have programmed.


but.. what the heck.. I want to do this and I will try it out
If I make something good... maybe they can publish my game

I am going to try to get some more experienced people to help me along the path. It will be volunteer basis only. I got someone for the Soundtrack/SFX. I can do the graphics and some of the coding.... and all the backgrounds.

I am going to need help with the coding lol

†B†V†

 

[HPMAN]

Originally posted by Takumaji:
<strong>Ask Blastar - he coded his Neo Tetris in pure m68k asm.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Of course since C libraries for neo are nowhere to be found, homebrew software can only be written in ASM....

 

[JMKurtz]

My Neo games I'm working on are now mostly in C with underlaying ASM routines for gfx -- so the game logic is quicker to code.

<a href="http://www.radix.net/~atari/index.html" target="_blank">http://www.radix.net/~atari/index.html</a>

Jeff

Originally posted by nruva:
<strong>Well, if you can get a Neo game working in C then I would be impressed. But, all you would need are the libraries and compiler... Vektorlogik was making a new Dev sweet. I bet if you write them they would atleast give you a heads up on what they have learned writting this new devlopment environment.
</strong><hr></blockquote>

 

[Bluevoodu]

which by the way you all talk.. asm sounds impossible.

†B†V†

 

[Takumaji]

Originally posted by Bluevoodu:
<strong> [...] but.. what the heck.. I want to do this and I will try it out [...] </strong><hr></blockquote>

That's the stuff legends are made of!

Don't worry... your C classes you're about to attend will get you started. After all, m68 asm is no rocket science.

Since I'm a musician, I have quite some equipment for sound recording/producing, samplers, mixers, synths, denoisers, compressors, etc. If you need help with anything connected with sounds and sampling, let me know.

 

[HPMAN]

People with dev skills should start a board for neo programming, so everyone could share info & tips.

First step would be of course to torture JMKurtz to make him say everything he knows about neo coding

 

[Bluevoodu]

your on my list for SFX/ Soundtrack

I play guitar and have been playing for aroun 8-9 years. I will be making some of the music when I can. If I can get ahold of a drum machine I WILL make some Fear Factory: Demanufactured type songs for this game

<img src="graemlins/drool2.gif" border="0" alt="[Drool 2]" /> <img src="graemlins/drool.gif" border="0" alt="[Drool]" /> sounds too good right now.. <img src="graemlins/drool2.gif" border="0" alt="[Drool 2]" />

lol.
†B†V†

 

[Takumaji]

Originally posted by HPMAN:
<strong>People with dev skills should start a board for neo programming, so everyone could share info & tips.

First step would be of course to torture JMKurtz to make him say everything he knows about neo coding </strong><hr></blockquote>

Yep. Great idea!

Jeff, did you hear?

 

[Takumaji]

Originally posted by Bluevoodu:
<strong>your on my list for SFX/ Soundtrack

I play guitar and have been playing for aroun 8-9 years. I will be making some of the music when I can. If I can get ahold of a drum machine I WILL make some Fear Factory: Demanufactured type songs for this game

<img src="graemlins/drool2.gif" border="0" alt="[Drool 2]" /> <img src="graemlins/drool.gif" border="0" alt="[Drool]" /> sounds too good right now.. <img src="graemlins/drool2.gif" border="0" alt="[Drool 2]" />

lol.
†B†V†</strong><hr></blockquote>

If you don't want to go the hardware way, you can use Rebirth-338 for PC, a very cool software drum/bass sequencer by Steinberg (a German company), with lots of easy-to-use features. Of course it's available in English too.

It combines three of Roland's most famous machines into one, two TB-303s (analogue bass synths), a TR-808 and a TR-909 (both drum machines). Phat sound guaranteed.

AFAIK, there's a demo version to download from <a href="http://www.steinberg.net" target="_blank">Steinberg's web site</a>.

 

[Bluevoodu]

that sounds rather cool

Some of the songs would have to be techno... you cannot have a side scroll shooter with techno... and some industrial NIN type stuff too

I love creating NIN type music.

†B†V†

 

[Takumaji]

Uh, that depends how you'd use the drums and bass sequences. The 909 for ex. has an alternative set of drum sounds which don't sound technoid or something.

Filtered through a compressor, this would make a very cool saw-your-brain-in-half cyber drum kit!