Merit VS Seniority

[@M]

Where do you stand on the merit vs. seniority issue for retaining/promoting employees? I'm in a union where seniority trumps everything. You can be the shittiest, laziest employee we have, but, if you've got the years, you've got the clout and get preferential treatment. Longevity should count for something, but, in my opinion, your performance, or lack thereof, should also be a factor. I think that a lazy worker, who often calls in sick, should be laid off or passed over for promotion in favor of a hard worker, with perfect attendance, regardless of the number of years under their respective belts, but, the union won't have that.

Union dues are kind of a bribe in a way to perpetuate this broken system.

 

[NeoSneth]

Here's what I learned:
Seniority may make you more experienced at the current role, but it doesnt mean you are the best candidate for a senior role.

There are plenty of junior people that have way more initiative and create a portfolio of merit that trumps seniority. You don't want to turn your seniority into complacency, and that's exactly what happens if you simply allow it to trump everything.

 

[Syn]

Vs brown nosers

 

[100proof]

Unions are good in the sense that they allow people in trade fields to get paid a reasonable wage but yeah, the downside is that it makes it more difficult to get rid of incompetent/lazy employees and promotes mediocrity because there's little benefit to killing yourself trying to get ahead.

 

[evil wasabi]

I recently discovered that I am older than my bosses, but they look way older than me. It’s weird. But it works I guess.

 

[Syn]

I recently discovered that I am older than my bosses, but they look way older than me. It’s weird. But it works I guess.

Wait until they ask you to do something the wrong way because of their lack of experience in the matter. I have done so many counterproductive things because I was told to. If it wasn't so sad, it would be hilarious.

 

[evil wasabi]

I’m okay taking orders like that. In law, incompetence is profit.

 

[neo_mao]

All career progression should be based on sex appeal

 

[Syn]

All career progression should be based on sex appeal

Actually, the first Costco store manager I worked for was a hottie that played a cheerleader in Revenge of the Nerds. No bullshit.

 

[SignOfGoob]

While I understand the chief gripe, totally, because I’ve worked with some grade A mofos with more years than me and nothing else to offer, I don’t really have a huge problem with it. It’s easy for anyone to understand “years on the job”. However coming up with a formula any HR stooge can use that perfectly quantifies skill, profitability, “worth”, whatever is totally fucking impossible and I challenge anyone to come up with such a thing. Aggregately, we’re all better off with years as a rating.

I know a few people, gaijin, who work in Japan and this is a common complaint that is fair to bring up since not only are they not senior they aren’t Japanese so they are basically fucked in a place that is as racist as Japan (even more racist than the US, amazingly). I understand this complaint but it has to be said that it’s built on a premise...that if someone SUCKS they should have been fired ages ago and if they don’t suck they must have learned a lot in those years. In the US this is a wild concept since every worker is thought of as a useless bloodsucker who should be fired to save the company money. This is a smoke screen created by The Man to fuck all of us. Don’t fall for it.

If you’re in a union in a western country you’re one of the very very very few. If mediocrity is over-rewarded then you also will eventually get your promotion based on nothing but seniority. %99.99 of the Earth has no such prospect. I recommend you stop being a bitch and shut the fuck up. The alternative, of course, is to quit the union and see how unchecked capitalism treats you. Good luck with that shit...

 

[max 330 mega]

Kill your seniors. Become the kingpin

 

[@M]

To paraphrase Stephen King: "Being condemned to hell is one thing, but, would you actually want to own it?" I wouldn't want to be in charge at my workplace, especially right now with the nightmare boss rush staffing shortages.

 

[SignOfGoob]

Oh, for sure. If this is at all about being in charge of people then my advice is to never be in charge of people. If he’s whining for more power over others then...no comment.

I was at my last job for 10 years. I was promoted twice and got raises every year, I never told anyone what to do once and it was never my job to fire or hire anyone. That’s the perfect situation in the trades, other than technicians being non-union in most of the US...so you can be fired at any time for no reason with no notice, just like everyone else.

 

[wyo]

Where do you stand on the merit vs. seniority issue for retaining/promoting employees? I'm in a union where seniority trumps everything. You can be the shittiest, laziest employee we have, but, if you've got the years, you've got the clout and get preferential treatment. Longevity should count for something, but, in my opinion, your performance, or lack thereof, should also be a factor. I think that a lazy worker, who often calls in sick, should be laid off or passed over for promotion in favor of a hard worker, with perfect attendance, regardless of the number of years under their respective belts, but, the union won't have that.

Union dues are kind of a bribe in a way to perpetuate this broken system.

Merit and seniority are both important factors to consider. As with most things in life, it's about finding the right balance.

The benefits of union membership generally outweigh the negatives. If you don't like something and enough people agree, you have more power to effect change collectively than as individual employees. Sure, some will take advantage but the alternative is being at the mercy of employers and the meagre regulations afforded you by government.

 

[evil wasabi]

Thinking about this further, there’s a problem with meritocratic systems that value accomplishments but ignore or try to ameliorate poor habits and judgements with the sheer dumb luck of the merit based “boss”,

and that the senior employee has seen how things are done and can likely run the system in an ain’t broke don’t fix way, but may not be a fresh ideas when things are broke type of leader.

real meritocracy needs to cancel out the noise of dumb luck wins or status quo bias and seek out solid decision making.

 

[SignOfGoob]

“Meritocracy”...sounds like “unicorn” or “perpetual motion machine” to me. I don’t know of any way to...write that shit down...in a way that can actually be used.

For example, all the guys who caused the collapse of the housing market...they got paid, promoted, etc. Many are spending their days now contributing to the next collapse. If you make the company $1T and then escape by golden parachute and the company goes out of business the next year....that’s rewarding something but it isn’t the quality of work.

 

[norton9478]

Every time my brother gets tenure, he switches school districts.

 

[norton9478]

In a meritocracy, the person who is the most useless gets promoted to get him off the production floor.

 

[Lagduf]

Every time my brother gets tenure, he switches school districts.

Why?
I don’t understand.

 

[norton9478]

Why?
I don’t understand.

Pasture is always greener on the other side.

 

[Heinz]

You must always tip the balance of merit in your favor according to those you work with. It helps that others do not try very hard to do the same.

 

[evil wasabi]

How can I fail upwards? Should I learn to walk upside down and exclusively do that at work?

 

[LoneSage]

How can I fail upwards? Should I learn to walk upside down and exclusively do that at work?

Eat lunch with the boss and make them laugh. You don't even have to be great at your job. This is a LoneSage Pro Tip, you're welcome.

 

[@M]

Don't tell your boss that you can crush a beer can on your forehead if you can't, this is a neo_moe Pro Tip.

 

[neo_mao]

Don't tell your boss that you can crush a beer can on your forehead if you can't, this is a neo_moe Pro Tip.

Let me tell you - people come to our company outings for the sole reason of seeing what stupid/amazing shit I'll do.

It's an immense amount of pressure.