'Last Hope' Central thread

[JMKurtz]

Changing the code to use the bios isnt actually as hard as it sounds anyway....

Yeah, you're right, that is the easy part -- the hard part is coming up with all the kool ideas, which you do so well in the UNI-BIOS

Jeff

 

[aria]

We are approaching 2006. The 1990 NEO-GEO was "abandoned" in July of 2004. As far as I am concerned, it's done. Just like the Atari 2600, Colecovision, etc. the parent company (inventor) has quit the project. That means they have no say in the matters anymore. As far as I am concerned, SNK PLaymore is about as usefull to me (us) as an empty beer can. Just throw it over your shoulder into the trash. Yes, these guys were paranoid and blood thirsty a few years back and poor patsys like NGF and World Wide Video fell victim to their last attacks. But that bite is now GONE and all thta is left is MAYBE a small bark. They have MOVED ON. They are onto atomiswave, ps2, xbox, gameboy, etc. I don't think they give a crap anymore about the neo-geo...be it home, mvs, cd, or whatever. So forget them. They don't count anymore.

As I see it, developing a game that works on neo-geo hardware is the same thing as making a video tape that works on VHS format. Who the FUCK is JVC to tell you that you cannot build a cassette that uses THEIR proprietary gears in the VCR or that uses THEIR video display chip on the board, etc. FUCK THEM. I think the dev teams need to froget about any legal issues because they are simply not there. It is damn hard enough to program a game, let alone to do so without being able to take every shortcut possible. SNK made their money on this hardware, and SNK lost their money too. But win or lose, they are OUT OF THE PICTURE NOW.

(maybe if they would return my emails I would have some respect for them but it seems they have pride issues)

Anyhow, that is my two cents on the BIOS and such.

Oh and for the record, Playmore here needs to keep in mind that the MONEY is not there anyhow! NOBODY is making a dime off this old out-dated hardware. If you really sit down and take into account whats involved, I promise you that there is no profit being made. If you were to add it all up, a FAIR wage for the HOURS of programming, art work, coding, etc. for what it took the designers to make the game, then the assembling, handling, shipping, etc. Even if they sold 50 copies at $1,000 a piece, they wouldn't be making shit. They would barely cut even. People who "work" on homebrew projects have a LIFE and a real JOB. They do all thta crap in their spare time when they SHOULD be spending it with their family. It is a MAJOR SACRIFICE and what little money (IF ANY) they see come from it does not compensate them for their time invested and is usually just chaneled into making their next project even better and bolder. The point here is, nobody is making money off of SNK's abandoned hardware. So EVEN IF that was Playmores concern, they can lay it to rest.

There's one problem with just going with this very fair assumption: While SNKP can "abandon" the hardware for all practical purposes, they will never legally abandon it unless they explicity, in writing, release their legal rights to it (and, if anything, they'd sell the rights first).

What does that mean? Anyone who does anything for the system runs the risk of getting somebody at Playmore on a bad day (could be just some individual with reasonable authority) and then get a serious legal action thrown at them for no other reason that the "pride/brownie-points" (or whatever) of the company person.

From a risk-management perspective, it's not wise to make the initial investment into making these games (which are far from the kind of legal issues that mar bootlegs or NGF-like piracy) knowing that you're a legal letter away from being stopped, sued or a combination thereof.

For a small team like this, there's certainly a balance between "doing it right" (which means extra time/money) and "doing it fast" (extra risk in several areas), but I think this is an area of risk they should be wary of.

 

[TMOSteel]

There's one problem with just going with this very fair assumption: While SNKP can "abandon" the hardware for all practical purposes, they will never legally abandon it unless they explicity, in writing, release their legal rights to it (and, if anything, they'd sell the rights first).

What does that mean? Anyone who does anything for the system runs the risk of getting somebody at Playmore on a bad day (could be just some individual with reasonable authority) and then get a serious legal action thrown at them for no other reason that the "pride/brownie-points" (or whatever) of the company person.

Take "Atari" for instance: long thought to be an "abandoned" system (when was the last 7800 rolled off the assembly line?) it's had a great homebrew following with games being made for systems like the 2600 and 5200 (some new, some hacks of original titles and some "unofficial" sequels).

The moment the current owner decides to release their Atari Flashback console and lo and behold almost all the homebrew titles released (and some even in development) disappeared, thanks to some legal notifications being sent out.

(Much more on this and in much better detail can be found on the AtariAge website)

Never “assume” anything is abandoned…

 

[aria]

Take "Atari" for instance: long thought to be an "abandoned" system (when was the last 7800 rolled off the assembly line?) it's had a great homebrew following with games being made for systems like the 2600 and 5200 (some new, some hacks of original titles and some "unofficial" sequels).

The moment the current owner decides to release their Atari Flashback console and lo and behold almost all the homebrew titles released (and some even in development) disappeared, thanks to some legal notifications being sent out.

(Much more on this and in much better detail can be found on the AtariAge website)

Never “assume” anything is abandoned…

Great example. I was wondering about that, never looked into it, but I'm not surprised to hear it.

When "retro-gaming" became hip again, that wasn't great news for the home brewers because they were then brewing on an "active" system.

 

[Ely13]

How many megs will Last Hope be? I am hoping for at least 400 megs - maybe more.

WTF.

 

[GregN]

I can tell you this - if you would make a beat em up with good graphics, solid hit detection, the right sound effects, people would willingly pay $350+ for that as there is a glut of them on the Neo-Geo (at least good ones).

 

[ForeverSublime]

I can tell you this - if you would make a beat em up with good graphics, solid hit detection, the right sound effects, people would willingly pay $350+ for that as there is a glut of them on the Neo-Geo (at least good ones).

That'd be a few years down the road, I'm sure. Beatemups are more towards the last step in 2D development. Heheh, you basically went through an entire list of what games are made of (besides gameplay) and said if each part were good the game would sell.

It's usually:

Text:Puzzle:Shooter:Platformer:Action

Or something of the like. Each builds on concepts of the previous.

Making frame by frame hitboxes is a bastard. Physics, Zsorting, AI, etc.

No offense to anyone, but I'm sure these guys are well aware of what the system "could use". Damn things take time, though. These guys would have to quit their day jobs to work on something of that calibur for a couple years... only to have us bitch and moan about a 550$ price tag to which they are aren't making much money on in the first place (people need to stop thinking what the "parts" cost and start thinking in terms of thousands of hours of work). If NGdev or the community were truly looking out for their financial security, we'd tell them to get a job frying fast food.

 

[NGT]

FIrst of all, it looks really cool! But... secondly....I will be playing this on my modded xbox 360 before I shell out $500-700 for it. You release MVS Full Kits for $150 and it would sell better. I would guess you could print out MVS art just as easily as the other stuff and the cardboard box would be cheaper then the shock boxes..not sure if this was said before but I am not reading 7 pages to find out,lol

 

[GigaDrive]

a few dozen hardcore NEO-GEO fans will shell out $550+ for the AES cart.

everyone else including me will spend anywhere from $0 to under $100 on either:
MVS, NEO-GEO CD, Dreamcast or the ROMZ

 

[ForeverSublime]

FIrst of all, it looks really cool! But... secondly....I will be playing this on my modded xbox 360 before I shell out $500-700 for it. You release MVS Full Kits for $150 and it would sell better. I would guess you could print out MVS art just as easily as the other stuff and the cardboard box would be cheaper then the shock boxes..not sure if this was said before but I am not reading 7 pages to find out,lol

I'm sure there are many people who'd rather play the home cart version than would spend $500-700 on an Xbox360.

I think a lot of you guys saying you'd pay 50$-150$ for an alternative are full of xanadudu, because I haven't seen one of you guys saying you'd "donate" that much after you pilfer the ROM.

 

[NGT]

I'm sure there are many people who'd rather play the home cart version than would spend $500-700 on an Xbox360.

I think a lot of you guys saying you'd pay 50$-150$ for an alternative are full of xanadudu, because I haven't seen one of you guys saying you'd "donate" that much after you pilfer the ROM.

I would spend $150 on a good new 2 player Neo Shmup. I would rather have it in MVS cart form then rom form.

 

[ForeverSublime]

I would spend $150 on a good new 2 player Neo Shmup. I would rather have it in MVS cart form then rom form.

Right, so would a lot of people. However, they aren't going to send that 150$ to the developer when they decide to download the ROM instead (be it because the game wasn't developed on the platform they adore, or for more spendthrift reasons). My point is not that particular no-brainer scenario, it's that if I were in the publisher's shoes I'd be more willing to take people's suggestions seriously if that weren't the case.

 

[Lagduf]

but I am not reading 7 pages to find out,lol

Then why post anything at all?

My thoughts: I hope the game works out for the dev team in germany. The release is obviously going to be cost prohibitive for some, but im sure there are less vocal Neo Geo fans who will buy the game.

Either way I hope the game is good.

 

[NGT]

Right, so would a lot of people. However, they aren't going to send that 150$ to the developer when they decide to download the ROM instead (be it because the game wasn't developed on the platform they adore, or for more spendthrift reasons). My point is not that particular no-brainer scenario, it's that if I were in the publisher's shoes I'd be more willing to take people's suggestions seriously if that weren't the case.

I haven't downloaded a rom in years! In my 360 post, it was a joke. Saying something like "the xbox 360 will be modded and carrying this game before I spend $500+ on it"...basically meaning there's no way I would shell out $500+ for it. Since I am not getting an xbox 360. Or any $500 game right now for that matter.

I think it's really cool that they did this and I wish them the best.

If they are trying to avoid the rom getting dumped, they are fighting a battle they won't win. Someone will buy it and dump it, as with every neo game. Also, more people have gotten out of the aes and into or just sticking to mvs as of late. Sure, some will buy this. Most likely someone who lives in Florida or Mexico...both whom we know will drop it on MVS and then my money will be going to them instead. I would be up for sending the dev team $150 for an mvs kit over sending either of the other folks $100 for their version. If that says anything.

I do hear what you are saying though and as it sounds they have already chosen which way to go. I do wish them the best, but also hope for an MVS release.

As for lagduf, stfu. I don't have to read 100's of posts and spend an hour in a thread prior to posting an opinion. Plenty of people said something pretty close to what you just stated anyways. No need to be an ass.

 

[TMOSteel]

FIrst of all, it looks really cool! But... secondly....I will be playing this on my modded xbox 360 before I shell out $500-700 for it.

Why mod perfection?

 

[Akira_Tekagi]

@Kpj: 1 player

Last Hope doesn't have a 2 player mode? Would it still be possible to add it to the game before it's released? It would give the game more replay value.

 

[pixeljunkie]

Last Hope doesn't have a 2 player mode? Would it still be possible to add it to the game before it's released? It would give the game more replay value.

Meh, I disagree....I think 2 player is a slight novelty in shmups. Games like Contra? Yes, it adds a lot....but shmups? 2-player annoys me. [ever tried 2 player Ikaruga? my GOD shoot me]

 

[DevilRedeemed]

Meh, I disagree....I think 2 player is a slight novelty in shmups. Games like Contra? Yes, it adds a lot....but shmups? 2-player annoys me. [ever tried 2 player Ikaruga? my GOD shoot me]

agreed. it can be fun, but just as a novelty rather than a gameplay enhancer.

 

[pixeljunkie]

agreed. it can be fun, but just as a novelty rather than a gameplay enhancer.

exactly, shmups are about scoring, and not dying. 2-player hinders BOTH

 

[The Chief]

I can't believe I didn't notice this thread sooner but after 14 pages of reading and watching the demo video I must say I'm very impressed. The game looks solid with nice backgrounds and animation, game play looks technical too, I like it. Keep up the great work guys.

 

[ForeverSublime]

Then why post anything at all?

but im sure there are less vocal Neo Geo fans who will buy the game.

True. I was surprised by all the names in this thread I've never seen before. A lot of us need to realize that the Neo world isn't limited to us dopes who post all the time. There are a lot of lurkers, and a lot of guys who don't want anything to do with us. I'll laugh when it's those people who buy most of the games and some vocal collector freaks when he can't find a copy.

 

[GigaDrive]

Well I finally got to see the video of Last Hope because it was online again - I must admit I'm kind of disaapointed in what I saw. It does not look as intense or as impressive as Last Resort, much less Pulstar. clearly this is a homebrew effort. The music was nice, I will give them that. The artwork and sprites are too generic, and the gameplay seems much too layed back, even for an R-Type style memorization shmup. I will be glad to get the Dreamcast revision if it makes it out though. I'm a sucker for shmups, but not ones that cost over half a grand.

 

[T_Smallz]

MVS release please...

 

[NGT]

exactly, shmups are about scoring, and not dying. 2-player hinders BOTH

True, but I always seem to have more fun when playing with someone else. I guess the "serious" gamers are far more worried about not dying and high scores, but there are some gamers that are just into shmups to have fun. For me personally, 2 players would enhance the chance of that happening. Don't get me wrong, I have fun playing alone as well, but I have always had more fun playing games with other people.

 

[SNKJorge]

True, but I always seem to have more fun when playing with someone else. I guess the "serious" gamers are far more worried about not dying and high scores, but there are some gamers that are just into shmups to have fun. For me personally, 2 players would enhance the chance of that happening. Don't get me wrong, I have fun playing alone as well, but I have always had more fun playing games with other people.

I think a larger percent of people enjoy the strategy involved in 1ccing a
shmup better than a two player game. You just experience and explore every
aspect the game has to give you, you get more out of it this way, specially
when you're at the end, it's a nice accomplishment.