Evo2K5 in Las Vegas

[NeoTheranthrope]

I was, and yet, wasn't, kidding.

Basically.

Why not MVS over supergun Mame? I mean, that's what they're set up to do for DS3.

Yay! teh R0MZ to the rescue!

 

[SNKJorge]

Yay! teh R0MZ to the rescue!

Ok. Let's not derailed this thread with bullshit please. Thanks.

 

[EvilMike]

What's the date of this?

Mike

 

[BIG]

LV??!? Fuck!

I might be able to go,but L.A. would've been much better for me. Anyone know the exact date for this?

BIG-

 

[SNKJorge]

August 12-14

Friday-Sunday

 

[Yamazaki_RJ]

The fact that "The Answer" from SRK forums, and Jorge are trying and willing to lend the original and proper hardware and that they wont take it is one of the worst cases of SNK or Neo ignorance I have ever seen. That Wiz guy is a fucking tool.

Damn... I would sugest this if I could.

Don't they tests a port of a game before declare it worth of competition? Sad that the first SNK game in EVO will be a true inferior port, and it's a shame that people in SRK is not even bothering. And I was thinking in see some great players world-wide to show up...

Having 2k2 there is perfectly fine even if the port is a little buggy.

It's not a "little bug". It's good to practice at home, but unworth of high competition level.

What's wrong with the ps2 version of 2k2? Please don't say "the controls feel weird/off," I'm genuinely curious.

The bug I was talking about severely affects gameplay. Imagine two high level players, Player 1 is Kula, both players have the energy bars about 50~40%. Player 2 is in the corner and try a move, but fails. Player 1 then lands a jumping D, standing C, toward + A, qcf + A (knocking the opponent in the air), and then try to follow with a qcb + B, and so on... (it's a extensive combo).

In the AES/MVS versions, no problem. The combo will be fine and easy. But not in the PS2 version: in that port, after the qcf + A the game will slowdown a little, the function of the buttons will be switched (punches to kicks/kicks to punches), and in the place of a qcb + B (the tatsumaki-like kick), we'll have a qcb + A (the reflector), frustrating the combo attempt.
Then, Player 2 will be back in the action not because a mistake of Player 1, but because a patetic bug. Who knows, maybe Player 2 can still win the match. Not very fair...
Another example is May-Lee. This char needs constantly stance switch (ABC) in the middle of combat, and even more in the middle of combos. But because of the strange timming of the port it can be too hard to do, and even impossible in some cases.
The commands of some moves are oversensitive too, and Kyo and Iori suffer with it a lot. Most of the attempts of Kyo's qcf + A or Iori's qcb + A will be followed by another qcf + A (or qcb + A) with just one command given. This can put the player in various punishable moments.

The DC port don't have the button switch bug, but brings some issues too. The most cheap is the "Super Chris". He is a well-know char to the KOF players. All of us should know that Chris is a excellent char, and a easy choice to many players.
In the DC port, Chris gained the ability to do a totally new, ultra cheap, easy BC combo that consists of qcb + A (2 hits), qcb + B (2 hits), qcb + A (2 hits), qcb + B (2 hits) over and over until the Power Bar runs almost out, finishing with a DM/SDM. In the original AES/MVS versions, this combo is impossible, and Chris is limited to just ONLY ONE qcb + A, and the move must be cancelled in the FIRST HIT.
If a DC port made it to EVO, wait to see a lot of teams with Chris.
Still in this version, Angel's hcb + kick throws the opponent way too far. To a char who needs to be always close to the opponent, it's bothersome irritanting.

And one more thing: what is a XBOX-E? Emulators for XBOX? Darkstalkers and SFA3 will be using this, and if it is emulation, why KOF 2k2 can't use it too?

 

[SNKJorge]

Are you coming to EVO?

Damn... I would sugest this if I could.

Don't they tests a port of a game before declare it worth of competition? Sad that the first SNK game in EVO will be a true inferior port, and it's a shame that people in SRK is not even bothering. And I was thinking in see some great players world-wide to show up...



It's not a "little bug". It's good to practice at home, but unworth of high competition level.



The bug I was talking about severely affects gameplay. Imagine two high level players, Player 1 is Kula, both players have the energy bars about 50~40%. Player 2 is in the corner and try a move, but fails. Player 1 then lands a jumping D, standing C, toward + A, qcf + A (knocking the opponent in the air), and then try to follow with a qcb + B, and so on... (it's a extensive combo).

In the AES/MVS versions, no problem. The combo will be fine and easy. But not in the PS2 version: in that port, after the qcf + A the game will slowdown a little, the function of the buttons will be switched (punches to kicks/kicks to punches), and in the place of a qcb + B (the tatsumaki-like kick), we'll have a qcb + A (the reflector), frustrating the combo attempt.
Then, Player 2 will be back in the action not because a mistake of Player 1, but because a patetic bug. Who knows, maybe Player 2 can still win the match. Not very fair...
Another example is May-Lee. This char needs constantly stance switch (ABC) in the middle of combat, and even more in the middle of combos. But because of the strange timming of the port it can be too hard to do, and even impossible in some cases.
The commands of some moves are oversensitive too, and Kyo and Iori suffer with it a lot. Most of the attempts of Kyo's qcf + A or Iori's qcb + A will be followed by another qcf + A (or qcb + A) with just one command given. This can put the player in various punishable moments.

The DC port don't have the button switch bug, but brings some issues too. The most cheap is the "Super Chris". He is a well-know char to the KOF players. All of us should know that Chris is a excellent char, and a easy choice to many players.
In the DC port, Chris gained the ability to do a totally new, ultra cheap, easy BC combo that consists of qcb + A (2 hits), qcb + B (2 hits), qcb + A (2 hits), qcb + B (2 hits) over and over until the Power Bar runs almost out, finishing with a DM/SDM. In the original AES/MVS versions, this combo is impossible, and Chris is limited to just ONLY ONE qcb + A, and the move must be cancelled in the FIRST HIT.
If a DC port made it to EVO, wait to see a lot of teams with Chris.
Still in this version, Angel's hcb + kick throws the opponent way too far. To a char who needs to be always close to the opponent, it's bothersome irritanting.

And one more thing: what is a XBOX-E? Emulators for XBOX? Darkstalkers and SFA3 will be using this, and if it is emulation, why KOF 2k2 can't use it too?

 

[Yamazaki_RJ]

No... I wish I could...

If a "Daigo" equivalent appears in KOF 2k2, it would be great. It would cause a great impact in SNK/KOF players around the world. I can imagine the brazilian community discussing it a whole year...

But if a strange port like the PS2 version is used, how the tournament would gain some respect? It's sad.

 

[SNKJorge]

The actual Daigo plays KOF, and I hear he's good.
You have a good point though.

No... I wish I could...

If a "Daigo" equivalent appears in KOF 2k2, it would be great. It would cause a great impact in SNK/KOF players around the world. I can imagine the brazilian community discussing it a whole year...

But if a strange port like the PS2 version is used, how the tournament would gain some respect? It's sad.

 

[Yamazaki_RJ]

The actual Daigo plays KOF, and I hear he's good.

I didn't knew that. Great!

 

[SNKJorge]

Btw, for those who are not aware, companies like: Pelican, Hori, and Tecmo
will present to show and I guess sell their latest products. Capcom should
make an apperance IMO, maybe even SNKP.

 

[taitai]

Btw, for those who are not aware, companies like: Pelican, Hori, and Tecmo
will present to show and I guess sell their latest products. Capcom should
make an apperance IMO, maybe even SNKP.

If Hori's there, I wonder if they're going to get harassed about a US release of the Real Arcade Pro.

Also, I meant JUST MVS over SuperGun earlier. Why not?

 

[SNKJorge]

http://www.shoryuken.com/features/e010509.shtml

 

[jeff bogard]

I already mailed SNKP, and no they won't be present, sad but true. Hopefully next year, if they need to connect with a crowd this is the time....

Nice article...

 

[Stephane]

The actual Daigo plays KOF, and I hear he's good.
You have a good point though.

where you heard Daigo plays at KOF ?

 

[nothingxs]

I know someone who's seen Daigo at an arcade actually play the game. Or someone who claims such, anyways. It was a Tokyo-area arcade, so I don't know if that holds any water or not. It was apparently Neowave.

One of the BIG reason I see why they may be putting on PS2 is because of controller compatibility. Most people get their custom joysticks wired for PS2, and some of us have joysticks that need a 5V line to function (P360s, Sanwa Flash). I personally have a Sanwa Flash and would be incomprehensibly pissed if I ended up plugging my shit in to a Neo through a converter and it didn't work.

I know the Neo does provide 5V, it's just that not all converters actually do this correctly. Someone hook me up with a PS2->Neo converter that doesn't lag at all and I'll cry "change it to the Neo!" and tell Wizard about the adapters, which should be one of the major things that are likely affecting this decision.

As it is, I'm a premium member on SRK so I'll see if I can't sweet-talk him into relenting on this, but tell me first if you know of a converter. I'm not playing on a Neo stick, not when I could play on a Sanwa Flash.

 

[VinylBoy]

The fact that "The Answer" from SRK forums, and Jorge are trying and willing to lend the original and proper hardware and that they wont take it is one of the worst cases of SNK or Neo ignorance I have ever seen.

I haven't been on SRK to see this, but I'm not surprised to see this news. Complete stupidity!!!

It wouldn't cost the people at Evo anything to have a person or two bring an AES machine and a copy of KOF 2002 on cart. Even I would have considered going with my AES setup so that KOF 2002 could be played properly. Not only would you be able to play the games as they were INTENDED, but it would be a good way to bring other Neo titles and show that other titles do have plenty of tournament potential.

I bet the reason why they're rejecting the AES/MVS route is merely for the joysticks... which would be one of the DUMBEST thing I ever seen happen in a tournament EVER.

 

[nothingxs]

I haven't been on SRK to see this, but I'm not surprised to see this news. Complete stupidity!!!

It wouldn't cost the people at Evo anything to have a person or two bring an AES machine and a copy of KOF 2002 on cart. Even I would have considered going with my AES setup so that KOF 2002 could be played properly. Not only would you be able to play the games as they were INTENDED, but it would be a good way to bring other Neo titles and show that other titles do have plenty of tournament potential.

I bet the reason why they're rejecting the AES/MVS route is merely for the joysticks... which would be one of the DUMBEST thing I ever seen happen in a tournament EVER.

http://nothingxs.makyz.com/images/nxsstick.jpg

VS having to use a Neo stick or some shitty MAS stick I can't use.

As I said, give me an adapter -- one that'll supply 5V to my pad so the Sanwa works -- and I'm all for the Neogeo. Hell, that'd be good because then I have an excuse to actually get a Neogeo once I land this job. No way I'm playing on a Neo stick, though.

 

[VinylBoy]

http://nothingxs.makyz.com/images/nxsstick.jpg

VS having to use a Neo stick or some shitty MAS stick I can't use.

As I said, give me an adapter -- one that'll supply 5V to my pad so the Sanwa works -- and I'm all for the Neogeo. Hell, that'd be good because then I have an excuse to actually get a Neogeo once I land this job. No way I'm playing on a Neo stick, though.

Back when I did tournaments in the OLD DAYS of 1992-1996 (forgive me folks, I couldn't pass that one up), gameplayers had no choice. People threw tournaments corresponding with arcades. The arcade owners made sure the games were in pristine condition with all the controlls working properly. Nobody could bring in a "super controller" or the home joystick of their choice to play the game... you had to play the game as it was originally intended.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with the Neo Stick. It's the closest thing to an actual controller from the MVS and it doesn't take that long to get used to them. Hell, when I play Neo Geo games I actually look for a controller that looks and feels like the Neo Stick. Although I do agree that some people favor more controllers over the others, anyone of them can be used if you actually take the time to use them properly to do the moves & combos you want. And I do mean giving it a REAL try... not just giving up after a few hours (or even a few days) if you're not able to do your favorite moves.

When companies start making arcade machines where one can bring in their own handheld controllers, plug them in and configure them to their heart's content, then maybe my ideas on using particular controllers would change. Until then, I remain a traditionalist in this case.

 

[nothingxs]

Back when I did tournaments in the OLD DAYS of 1992-1996 (forgive me folks, I couldn't pass that one up), gameplayers had no choice. People threw tournaments corresponding with arcades. The arcade owners made sure the games were in pristine condition with all the controlls working properly. Nobody could bring in a "super controller" or the home joystick of their choice to play the game... you had to play the game as it was originally intended.

Noone cares about the 'old days' of 1992-1996. This is 2005, and this is a console tournament. There's no "super controller" going on here, it's a custom-made arcade stick that the player is comfortable with. As time went by, adaptability became more and more of a concern within gaming: you can't please everyone by letting play on the same sticks. Evolution, when it was all about Arcades, had two cabinets hooked up to eachother running the same game: a Japanese cabinet and an American cabinet, so that the players could choose which controls they wanted. This isn't convenient to do anymore with the advent of consoles with perfect (or near-perfect) ports of the original game.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with the Neo Stick.

Only if you don't want anything to come out.

It's the closest thing to an actual controller from the MVS and it doesn't take that long to get used to them. Hell, when I play Neo Geo games I actually look for a controller that looks and feels like the Neo Stick. Although I do agree that some people favor more controllers over the others, anyone of them can be used if you actually take the time to use them properly to do the moves & combos you want. And I do mean giving it a REAL try... not just giving up after a few hours (or even a few days) if you're not able to do your favorite moves.

We've already gotten used to X controller which we feel completely comfortable with. Some of us even paid a large amount of money to have such controllers specifically designed for us to use. It'd be unfair to have to show up and specifically use whichever controller the arcade owner / organizer decided to put up if we felt we couldn't do well on it. There's no way I'll play on a P360, for example.

When companies start making arcade machines where one can bring in their own handheld controllers, plug them in and configure them to their heart's content, then maybe my ideas on using particular controllers would change. Until then, I remain a traditionalist in this case.

Or we could just use home console ports.

As it is, I think Shawn COULD step up to loan some used AES machines to the cause, and just advise people to get themselves a PS2->Neogeo converter that will supply 5V for P360/Sanwa FLASH sticks.

 

[VinylBoy]

Noone cares about the 'old days' of 1992-1996. This is 2005, and this is a console tournament. There's no "super controller" going on here, it's a custom-made arcade stick that the player is comfortable with. As time went by, adaptability became more and more of a concern within gaming: you can't please everyone by letting play on the same sticks. Evolution, when it was all about Arcades, had two cabinets hooked up to eachother running the same game: a Japanese cabinet and an American cabinet, so that the players could choose which controls they wanted. This isn't convenient to do anymore with the advent of consoles with perfect (or near-perfect) ports of the original game.

You fell for it hook, line & sinker.
The point I'm making is not about how we played in tournaments in the past. It's about playing the games properly and how they were intended. 9 times out of 10, the problem with people not being able to do their moves has absolutely NOTHING to do with the controller. Everyone wants to think of an excuse as to why they couldn't pull out their super-duper, secret life saving combo in the heat of battle. And the very first thing they want to say when they miss that last flash kick or fireball is that the controller fucked up.

Let's get real... unless a button is physically broken or if your character doesn't move in the proper direction when you point the joystick, there is nothing wrong with the controller. The problem is the player, and they just don't want to accept it.

And let it be known... I have no problems pulling out moves or combos in a Neo Geo game using Neo Sticks. Just about anyone that I know whose played these games know how to porperly execute moves using Neo Sticks without issues. As with any controller, the more you use it the better you become.

We've already gotten used to X controller which we feel completely comfortable with. Some of us even paid a large amount of money to have such controllers specifically designed for us to use. It'd be unfair to have to show up and specifically use whichever controller the arcade owner / organizer decided to put up if we felt we couldn't do well on it. There's no way I'll play on a P360, for example.

Point taken, but think about what you just said. If you went to an arcade that was throwing a tournament using actual arcade machines, you would think it was unfair if they wouldn't allow you to use your own custom-made controller? Why should you have the unfair advantage over anyone else just because you spent money on a fancy controller? That's not how a tournament should be played... it should always be played with original hardware, with original software (or ports that are as close to perfection as possible), with a set of controllers that EVERYONE has to use. That way, there is absolutely no excuse as to who wins and who loses.

I have to be honest... at first, I really did think that Evo competitions were using arcade machines and not consoles. So I apologize if I made that misconception. But getting back to the joystick issue and the reasons why Evo is not using the Neo Geo hardware. The problem that we're now facing with KOF 2002 has to do with overall gameplay. According to a previous thread post, the PS2 & DC ports allow actual combos that are not possible in the original. Which basically means, anyone who has been practicing on the original hardware may be put at a disadvantage because they now have to look for additional loopholes & flaws in the system that were not intended to be there in the first place. This is a lot worse than a gameplayer not being able to properly execute a move all because they don't like the look & feel of a joystick. In the past, you had no choice in the matter but to adapt and adjust to the controller. Now, it seems that players are willing to accept flawed gameplay just for the sake of having a controller that they prefer.

As it is, I think Shawn COULD step up to loan some used AES machines to the cause, and just advise people to get themselves a PS2->Neogeo converter that will supply 5V for P360/Sanwa FLASH sticks.

I don't know if a converter like this even exists. If it does then great. But still, acceptig a flawed version of a game for the sake of the controllers is not a good way to run a tournemant.

 

[nothingxs]

You fell for it hook, line & sinker.

If by that you mean that I made perfect sense, then yes.

The point I'm making is not about how we played in tournaments in the past. It's about playing the games properly and how they were intended. 9 times out of 10, the problem with people not being able to do their moves has absolutely NOTHING to do with the controller. Everyone wants to think of an excuse as to why they couldn't pull out their super-duper, secret life saving combo in the heat of battle. And the very first thing they want to say when they miss that last flash kick or fireball is that the controller fucked up.

And with their own controller, it's still their fault if they blame it on the stick. Believe it or not, a good deal of the time the inability to get something out correctly IS a controller problem. I've stopped fucking up considerably once I switched to a Sanwa over any other controller. Some things work better than others.

Let's get real... unless a button is physically broken or if your character doesn't move in the proper direction when you point the joystick, there is nothing wrong with the controller. The problem is the player, and they just don't want to accept it.

A lot of sticks hit diagonals differently. A lot of sticks have different ways of moving. A lot of sticks have loose knobs as opposed to solid ones like American sticks. A lot of sticks feel very loose even when in neutral (neo stick comes to mind). Some people have to adjust a LOT to be able to play like this. The huge difference comes between American and Japanese sticks.

And let it be known... I have no problems pulling out moves or combos in a Neo Geo game using Neo Sticks. Just about anyone that I know whose played these games know how to porperly execute moves using Neo Sticks without issues. As with any controller, the more you use it the better you become.

Guess what, not all of us have access to a $300 piece of hardware and $300 game cartridges and mediocre $60 controllers. Even if I did, I'd use a custom stick for the Neo. All this paragraph proves is that you're good with a mediocre controller.

Point taken, but think about what you just said. If you went to an arcade that was throwing a tournament using actual arcade machines, you would think it was unfair if they wouldn't allow you to use your own custom-made controller? Why should you have the unfair advantage over anyone else just because you spent money on a fancy controller? That's not how a tournament should be played... it should always be played with original hardware, with original software (or ports that are as close to perfection as possible), with a set of controllers that EVERYONE has to use. That way, there is absolutely no excuse as to who wins and who loses.

No, but this is a console tournament. I'm obviously not going to ask to use a custom controller in an arcade tournament, but since it isn't one, I want my choice of stick rather than whatever they think I will do fine with.

I have to be honest... at first, I really did think that Evo competitions were using arcade machines and not consoles. So I apologize if I made that misconception. But getting back to the joystick issue and the reasons why Evo is not using the Neo Geo hardware. The problem that we're now facing with KOF 2002 has to do with overall gameplay. According to a previous thread post, the PS2 & DC ports allow actual combos that are not possible in the original. Which basically means, anyone who has been practicing on the original hardware may be put at a disadvantage because they now have to look for additional loopholes & flaws in the system that were not intended to be there in the first place. This is a lot worse than a gameplayer not being able to properly execute a move all because they don't like the look & feel of a joystick. In the past, you had no choice in the matter but to adapt and adjust to the controller. Now, it seems that players are willing to accept flawed gameplay just for the sake of having a controller that they prefer.

Accesibility is a huge reason why it isn't being allowed. Forcing people to play on expensive, rather fragile sticks that not everyone is accustomed to is not exactly a way to gather fans.

I don't know if a converter like this even exists. If it does then great. But still, acceptig a flawed version of a game for the sake of the controllers is not a good way to run a tournemant.

Someone should see if the classics converter for the Neogeo works from Liksang.

 

[VinylBoy]

If by that you mean that I made perfect sense, then yes.

You do to some extent. But I still think some of the arguments are more of an excuse than an actual gripe. BTW, thank you for actually having a debate without getting too crazy.

And with their own controller, it's still their fault if they blame it on the stick. Believe it or not, a good deal of the time the inability to get something out correctly IS a controller problem. I've stopped fucking up considerably once I switched to a Sanwa over any other controller. Some things work better than others.

I personally don't have an issue with any controller. I know how to do my moves with any of the characters I use, and if I don't execute them properly then I know it's something I did wrong with that particular controller. The more I use it, the better I become at executing the moves that I want. I can't expect every game that I play to use the same exact controller and base it on all of the same operational conditions. Therefore, I learn to adapt to the controllers that are placed in front of me.

Keep in mind... this is someone who actually played video games on an Atari 5200 controller and LIVED to tell about it. That is by far the WORST controller ever made! But if I wanted to play the games, I had to adjust. And I did. I can still think of better controllers for that system (maybe a pixy stick with two shirt buttons and a phone wire), but when I went to tournaments for that system I had to play on 5200 hardware. All the complaining and begging to use a "better controller" would have done nothing for me, so I swallowed my pride and played with the conditions that I was given.

A lot of sticks hit diagonals differently. A lot of sticks have different ways of moving. A lot of sticks have loose knobs as opposed to solid ones like American sticks. A lot of sticks feel very loose even when in neutral (neo stick comes to mind). Some people have to adjust a LOT to be able to play like this. The huge difference comes between American and Japanese sticks.

And these are things that gamers should all know and be able to adjust to. We can't expect everyone to cater to every player's personal needs just so they can have a better chance of winning in a tournament.

Guess what, not all of us have access to a $300 piece of hardware and $300 game cartridges and mediocre $60 controllers. Even if I did, I'd use a custom stick for the Neo. All this paragraph proves is that you're good with a mediocre controller.

Whether or not you think my choices in a controller are mediocre is your opinion. Some people find them perfectly OK for home use and I'm one of them. I can easily say that you're just a lightweight with mediocre execution skills who can't adjust to a game controller, but that would be out of line (and I hope you realize that I'm not calling you a bad player).

I can excuse using a port of an original game if it's not available. But we have people willing to donate actaul original hardware for the tournament. And it's being rejected just because some gamers don't like the original controllers. In the end, you have a tournament where players may be using "pristine" controls, but are playing a sub-par game that has loopholes & flaws that were not intended to be there. I can adjust to a controller. ANY controller. But if I've been playing KOF 2002 in the arcade for 2+ years (as if it was intended) and I'm forced to play it all differently just because they're using a flawed PS2 or DC port with obvious game engine problems I'd be rather pissed off. Still, a good gameplayer could adjust to the flaws of a not-so-perfect port. But that's more work for the gamer that they shouldn't have to go through just so someone could use a controller that they personally prefer.

I'm obviously not going to ask to use a custom controller in an arcade tournament, but since it isn't one, I want my choice of stick rather than whatever they think I will do fine with.

I still disagree here...
Everyone should have to use the same stuff. Plain and simple. If everyone had to play under the same conditions, then you can have a clear & decisive winner and loser. If everyone is bringing their own "unique configurations" to the game, then the results are flawed. In a basketball tournament, they don't make special arrangements for individual players. They don't widen the basket, make a bigger backboard or lower the hoop just so that people who are customed to playing basketball in their backyard can play on a regulation court. So why should we accept these personal adjustments in a video game tournament?

Forcing people to play on expensive, rather fragile sticks that not everyone is accustomed to is not exactly a way to gather fans.

But playing a game with flaws is? Again, what is more important? Accurate gameplay or comfortable, customizable controllers? Both are important, but I choose the gameplay.

 

[nothingxs]

You do to some extent. But I still think some of the arguments are more of an excuse than an actual gripe. BTW, thank you for actually having a debate without getting too crazy.

I personally don't have an issue with any controller. I know how to do my moves with any of the characters I use, and if I don't execute them properly then I know it's something I did wrong with that particular controller. The more I use it, the better I become at executing the moves that I want. I can't expect every game that I play to use the same exact controller and base it on all of the same operational conditions. Therefore, I learn to adapt to the controllers that are placed in front of me.

I refuse to play fighting games on pads or anything worse than a HAPP Competition (it goes something like this: Sanwa FLASH > Happ P360 > Sanwa JLF-8Y > Happ Competition > everything else) stick because it is an exercise in pointlessness. If people can't provide proper controllers, then I'd like to be able to provide mine.

Keep in mind... this is someone who actually played video games on an Atari 5200 controller and LIVED to tell about it. That is by far the WORST controller ever made! But if I wanted to play the games, I had to adjust. And I did. I can still think of better controllers for that system (maybe a pixy stick with two shirt buttons and a phone wire), but when I went to tournaments for that system I had to play on 5200 hardware. All the complaining and begging to use a "better controller" would have done nothing for me, so I swallowed my pride and played with the conditions that I was given.

Again, we aren't back in these times. Now it is considered standard for people to provide their own controllers.

And these are things that gamers should all know and be able to adjust to. We can't expect everyone to cater to every player's personal needs just so they can have a better chance of winning in a tournament.

Yeah, how dare people be able to provide their own, personal equipment that they've practiced on that would allow them to do better.

Whether or not you think my choices in a controller are mediocre is your opinion. Some people find them perfectly OK for home use and I'm one of them. I can easily say that you're just a lightweight with mediocre execution skills who can't adjust to a game controller, but that would be out of line (and I hope you realize that I'm not calling you a bad player).

I actually execute well, it's just that I have the least problems with a Sanwa FLASH, so I'm OBVIOUSLY going to want to use the stick with which I perform the best. This is logical.

I can excuse using a port of an original game if it's not available. But we have people willing to donate actaul original hardware for the tournament. And it's being rejected just because some gamers don't like the original controllers. In the end, you have a tournament where players may be using "pristine" controls, but are playing a sub-par game that has loopholes & flaws that were not intended to be there. I can adjust to a controller. ANY controller. But if I've been playing KOF 2002 in the arcade for 2+ years (as if it was intended) and I'm forced to play it all differently just because they're using a flawed PS2 or DC port with obvious game engine problems I'd be rather pissed off. Still, a good gameplayer could adjust to the flaws of a not-so-perfect port. But that's more work for the gamer that they shouldn't have to go through just so someone could use a controller that they personally prefer.

Then understand this: you are not everyone else. You are you. The ability to use people's own controllers is huge in things like tournaments.

I'm not saying this is bad, I'm saying that the option is available for people to use their controllers on old hardware, particularly right here. If this provides 5V then it will even support things like P360s. Even then, it can't be THAT hard to comission someone to make an adapter for Neo since the Neo pinout seems to be relatively simple.

I still disagree here...
Everyone should have to use the same stuff. Plain and simple. If everyone had to play under the same conditions, then you can have a clear & decisive winner and loser. If everyone is bringing their own "unique configurations" to the game, then the results are flawed. In a basketball tournament, they don't make special arrangements for individual players. They don't widen the basket, make a bigger backboard or lower the hoop just so that people who are customed to playing basketball in their backyard can play on a regulation court. So why should we accept these personal adjustments in a video game tournament?

No, but the people are allowed to wear their own selection of shoes and their own equipment, sometimes to protect their face. Hell, they get to drink whatever the fuck they want (99.99% this will be Gatorade), and as we all know, they DO have to drink the right thing so that they stay in the game hydrated. All of these things are pieces of equipment that CAN be changed, and do have some effect on how the player does. If the player wears shoes that he finds uncomfortable, then it's going to show. If a player's sports lens are not the kind he usually uses, he might not even be able to see very clearly.

The court, objective and system of play is ALWAYS THE SAME regardless of the 'accessories'. It's like a cyclist using a different brand of bike and aerodynamic helmet and setup that they find more efficient for themselves.

But playing a game with flaws is? Again, what is more important? Accurate gameplay or comfortable, customizable controllers? Both are important, but I choose the gameplay.

I don't think you understand me very well, but I WOULD rather play on Neogeo. I just don't want to do it if I'm going to be forced to play on a Neo stick.

 

[nothingxs]

I'm aware I'm double posting, but...

PEOPLE: Tell Joey Cuellar (MrWizard) an alternative for PS2 sticks to be plugged into the Neogeo does exist! Just check this out and equip yourself, and then maybe he will much more seriously consider the AES now that people will be able to provide their own controllers.