Big Tymers unwittingly laundering fake carts

[Electric Grave]

Oh man I didn't know you could do that! Thanks for sharing your discovery!

 

[bulbousbeard]

There's probably so much shit out there going on that has never been discovered. People probably found ways to counterfeit these perfectly, and i'm sure they ain't telling anyone. I wouldn't be surprised if a very large percentage of most AES games are fake.

That's my suspicion too. They really didn't make THAT many carts, and yet it seems like everyone on the planet owns every game. Something doesn't add up. A lot of them have to be counterfeit copies.

 

[Niko]

So what is considered fake anymore? If the board contains eproms, or some other combination of unofficial board/ICs? Is it really so hard to pop open a cart and inspect the contents before dropping ~$7k? I will never understand this hobby.

 

[Waverider2049]

So what is considered fake anymore? If the board contains eproms, or some other combination of unofficial board/ICs? Is it really so hard to pop open a cart and inspect the contents before dropping ~$7k? I will never understand this hobby.

Some people have never opened one before and don't want to risk ruining the label. If I was selling some of my rarer games to a respected collector and he handed me the money in person first and then wanted to open the cart I would let him so if he ruined the tabs or sticker then that's on him. If they opened it and it turned out in some freak way to somehow be a fake then it doesn't matter about the sticker or anything anymore, I'd hand him back the money and apologize. Luckily I won't have that problem as none of my games were worth as much as they are now and were newer at the time. They were bought from respected members. It would be horrible if that happened though. It's a shame what has happened in this hobby.

 

[xsq]

On a side note, at what point do the "fakes" become so good that they are making "real" carts?

So what is considered fake anymore?

Imagine taking one part (lets say one page of the manual) of an original cart to reproduce it and replaced that part with the the production. Then go on to do so until every piece (label, shell, case, insert, boards, chips) has been reproduced/replaced and you have assembled another cart from the parts. At what point does what cart become the (repaired) original and what the boot?

[This is a rather bad adaptation of the ship of Theseus paradox, I know.]

What really should be done now, is people who have known legit games, like purchased new, and or directly from snk, should be documenting these things.

So scam artists have better templates and know what to look out for when making bootlegs? (If they know the "tells", they will find ways to work them out.)
-> No. High quality scans should not be made, lest they be abused by scammers. The knowledge how to spot boots is best conserved and protected from the greedy peasants by the arch mages of the NGH collectors... and MVS for all.

I know it may sound crazy but if it's possible to ask SNK Playmore to rerelease AES/MVS games? Boot/counterfeit will be gone and SNK Playmore can also generate profits???
Just wonder if it's a possible solution................

I think some collectors will still be looking for the "first press" and be scammed for it. The rest of the community would benefit greatly, but as lions3 and RabbitTroop said, the market isn't big enough to warrant the cost.

SNK should have those original artworks, mold for shell & case in hand.

Well, I don't want to be pessimistic, but I could see them not having the original stuff anymore - and the knowledge how to produce carts like they did might be lost and not have been documented at all (I imagine SNK never had guidelines on how to do releases, with all the inconsistencies between them).

 

[Vectorman0]

Is it really so hard to pop open a cart and inspect the contents before dropping ~$7k? I will never understand this hobby.

I've tried opening some of my games and I find it really difficult. I haven't been able to do it yet. I guess my fingers are really weak. I'm also afraid of breaking tabs and, to a lesser extent, hurting the label.

 

[aha2940]

I've tried opening some of my games and I find it really difficult. I haven't been able to do it yet. I guess my fingers are really weak. I'm also afraid of breaking tabs and, to a lesser extent, hurting the label.

Opening a homecart with bre hands is not easy doable. Try getting a plastic tool to do it. Some hard guitar picks help. Important that it's plastic, because metal will mark the shell.

 

[bloodycelt]

I would say as retro games become more and more expensive, companies will find legal ways to address that demand.

Consider that FGPA console idea, it failed, but in 5-10 years it might be feasible to release an FGPA based system that accepts Print On Demand carts.

 

[PolluxTroy]

If they don't know and never find out, then no harm, no foul. Ignorance is bliss. It's real in their hearts.

 

[Bar81]

If they don't know and never find out, then no harm, no foul. Ignorance is bliss. It's real in their hearts.

By the same token, if no one can tell them apart then the copy becomes an original.

 

[oliverclaude]

It's real in their hearts.

And in their credit card invoices.

 

[Yamazaki]

That`s why I said fuck it and opened all my carts..

 

[evil wasabi]

That`s why I said fuck it and opened all my carts..

Probably for the best of you can do it without creasing the sticker and damaging the shell.

My feeling is that there are a couple of very well known and well respected (and some not respected) collectors who have known that they have fakes, and have sold them off using their street cred.

 

[SuperGun]

Grey Areas

Imagine taking one part (lets say one page of the manual) of an original cart to reproduce it and replaced that part with the the production. Then go on to do so until every piece (label, shell, case, insert, boards, chips) has been reproduced/replaced and you have assembled another cart from the parts. At what point does what cart become the (repaired) original and what the boot?

[This is a rather bad adaptation of the ship of Theseus paradox, I know.]

This is a very good point, and begs to ask the question of where do we draw the line, and who draws it, and under what authority; it opens pandoras box.

It's exactly what happened to Trieuminator who was at first praised by many high end collectors for having and sourcing amazing MVS KITS, and then further down the road getting thrashed by them when it was discovered that he had pieced most of them together (similar to what you outlined above) by swapping bad cardboard boxes out with nicer ones through a careful and crafty label removing process.

Again, where do you draw the line? Some felt he was wrong, others felt it didn't pass the line. It's very subjective.

 

[Niko]

This is a very good point, and begs to ask the question of where do we draw the line, and who draws it, and under what authority.......

Each person has to draw the line themselves. However purposely withholding information or deceiving buyers in a way to increase profit is wrong under any context.

 

[Kid Panda]

This is a very good point, and begs to ask the question of where do we draw the line, and who draws it, and under what authority; it opens pandoras box.

It's exactly what happened to Trieuminator who was at first praised by many high end collectors for having and sourcing amazing MVS KITS, and then further down the road getting thrashed by them when it was discovered that he had pieced most of them together (similar to what you outlined above) by swapping bad cardboard boxes out with nicer ones through a careful and crafty label removing process.

Again, where do you draw the line? Some felt he was wrong, others felt it didn't pass the line. It's very subjective.

If someone got mad because of cardboard that was changed out, then they don't need to be part of this hooby. Those boxes are nothing more than cardboard.

 

[greedostick]

If someone got mad because of cardboard that was changed out, then they don't need to be part of this hooby. Those boxes are nothing more than cardboard.

Agree, but I'm sure a lot of people don't. It's a plain ass cardboard box with a sticker on it. People do the same things with cartridge games, and genesis games. You Franken fix them, taking the best parts from lots you purchased, till you get a nice copy for yourself. If I didn't have matching serials, I would franken up a kit, and it wouldn't have matching serials, but if I had matching serials, I would keep it as is if damaged. Don't know if I would devise a way to remove a label on a MVS box, I don't care that much, but I could see the appeal.

 

[evil wasabi]

Agree, but I'm sure a lot of people don't. It's a plain ass cardboard box with a sticker on it. People do the same things with cartridge games, and genesis games. You Franken fix them, taking the best parts from lots you purchased, till you get a nice copy for yourself. If I didn't have matching serials, I would franken up a kit, and it wouldn't have matching serials, but if I had matching serials, I would keep it as is if damaged. Don't know if I would devise a way to remove a label on a MVS box, I don't care that much, but I could see the appeal.

If someone wants to pay $200 for an authentic piece of cardboard, then they should be allowed to do so.

We don't have to agree with those people, but when we abuse their trust, their potential business is killed off. It's not good for us.

 

[Niko]

On Today's episode of "Boot Busters" - Official or Unofficial SNK label adhesive.

 

[Waverider2049]

If someone wants to pay $200 for an authentic piece of cardboard, then they should be allowed to do so.

We don't have to agree with those people, but when we abuse their trust, their potential business is killed off. It's not good for us.

Agreed. The customer is always right and if they are paying then it's what they want not everyone else.

 

[tacoguy]

I know it may sound crazy but if it's possible to ask SNK Playmore to rerelease AES/MVS games? Boot/counterfeit will be gone and SNK Playmore can also generate profits???
Just wonder if it's a possible solution................

There really is no market, though. Remember how long it took Shawn to move the newer AES carts? He sat on Rage of the Dragons forever. SNK could look into something like a print on demand system, but the price would probably rival the current second-hand-market for a lot of titles, so it simply wouldn't be worth it.

Only chance would be if they found a cache of NOS carts someplace. It's happened before, but seems less and less likely these days.

No market?
The high price of some of these games people are paying for might say otherwise.
Couldn't they do a pre-order type of deal? I don't know how much an AES or MVS game would cost to make these days but they could take a low risk approach and have a certain amount of people do pre-orders?

I'm not sure how long ago it was when Shawn was trying to sell those AES games but things have really been picking up even just in the last year alone when I got into collecting for neo. If there's money to be made then they are missing out on a chance to cash in on their own IP. Though I imagine that if there was money to be made, they probably would have done something by now.

 

[Neo Alec]

Unless we're only talking about fake AES labels, inserts and manuals, then opening the cart will clear things up most of the time. The fear of creasing the label may be allowing some fake carts to pass through.

 

[aku]

The customer is always right and if they are paying then it's what they want not everyone else.

hell no! what if the customer is a douchebag?! personally i think its good that you cant pay everything on this planet with money...

 

[Bar81]

If someone got mad because of cardboard that was changed out, then they don't need to be part of this hooby. Those boxes are nothing more than cardboard.

Yup. Frankly, that's awesome that he's found a way to swap boxes without damaging the label. As greedo says, I Frankenstein games all the time swapping out cases, inserts, manuals and carts to get mint games. Shit has gone too far if people are complaining about a plain cardboard box being replaced with another identical plain cardboard box in better condition.

 

[Waverider2049]

hell no! what if the customer is a douchebag?! personally i think its good that you cant pay everything on this planet with money...

If the customer has the money and wants it he will get it. That's just how it is. Economics 101. If Shawn wanted a mint US MS1 AES game right now (on top of the ones he has lol) he would have the money and connections to find one in the condition he wants and make it happen. Thus the customer is always right. If you really think that way you are a jealous person. Don't hate on other peoples success. I wish I had that kind of capital and connections. If someone want a box for $500.00 with a pile of shit in it its their right to buy it and someone else's right to sell it and make money. Transactions aren't one sided although some here think that. Everyone is benefitting or the transaction wouldn't happen.