Voting is up for DarkSofts Neo Geo Multi Cart Design.

[cdamm]

Seems like a good idea to me, if we could find someone willing, and do a kickstarter. There's really no reason to even deal with SD cards when there are only a little over 100 games on the Neo. I think everyone would just put them all on there anyway. And if they didn't want them all, it's still better than the 161 in 1 carts filled with crap hacks.

But I think the problem is still that all the ROM need to be altered in order to get them to boot. Which is what all the fuss is about. Because it can make games buggy, and takes a lot of work to try and attempt to fix them all.

Maybe it would be easier on a multi to just throw the real unaltered roms on there, or maybe not. But I would be curious to know if it would be easier/possible.

I would be more than happy to sacrifice an SD card, for a fixed complete unaltered rom set, with a primitive menu. Not like there are a lot of games to scroll through. Basicall holding down, to scroll one at a time, or hitting right to jump 10 at a time would be fine with me.

doing a KS with real unaltered roms and no licensing done puts you in a world of shit.

SD cards (and the like) are a necessary evil with that sort of thing, unless you have permission to republish all of those titles.

 

[Razoola]

This is how it should be, the games already on the cart (like the multi already out there) but just a much better user UI and configuration.

 

[xsq]

I think someone (aha2940?) suggested developing/building all the hardware and having a USBport on the cart (maybe even one per board) to let you write the chips yourself. The Roms would be distributed in the same way they are now and writing them to the cart yourself would be slow and take a few hours or maybe a night to finish, but it would still not be a deal breaker if you could get the whole library on the cart... maybe someone with more knowledge can chime in, it seemed like a good idea when I read it... ^^

 

[PSICODROMO]

one like the MVS multi games cartridges would be good (with better menu, without hacks, without audio issues...) But also would be interesting can play some games in real hardware like Metal Slug 2 Turbo, Ironclad, and some prototypes

 

[Niko]

The problem is finding eproms that are large enough and fast enough ( most important ) to hold the entire neo library. The chinese pulled it off by sacking custom eproms from pachinko machines. Which is why you cant find the datasheets on them.

Also the games on the 1XX in 1 cart where already hacked to support the "holding start for 5 seconds to return to menu".

Building a multi that could take all neo games and play them in their unmodified state would be very expensive and time consuming to build. Every possible crypto IC would have to be emulated and done so at a level that is fast enough to not affect the game which would be a very difficult task.

 

[Razoola]

Every game does not need to be patched for a menu or protection removal, that is just the way the current multicarts did it. There are other ways to do it that do not involve patching of the game data on the flash.

 

[greedostick]

So, if we could get everyone on the same page and truly determine which is the most logical, and safest method to start.

Is the USB transfer idea a good one? I like that because it would give potential developers something to test prototye roms.

Then, if we can agree on a logical cart build. Is there actually anyone knowledgeable who would do it if we threw money at them?

 

[GadgetUK]

I guess it looks like we will have to hack some ROMs then, or use bootleg versions until hacks arrive. I guess its not worth the effort of replicating security chips used on one or few carts - Super Side Kicks is a good example, I don't know if the chip on there is used anywhere else but that game? Still looking forward to this despite the slight direction change.

 

[shadowkn55]

The issue with having a neo flash cart with SD cards as the storage medium is the lack of random access. SD cards are super cheap in their storage vs. cost ratio because they use NAND flash but because of the aforementioned limitations, you would have to go with older, more expensive, and less memory dense NOR flash for the random access.

As far as I know, all the current flash carts like the everdrive only use the sd card as a means of mass storage. It doesn't run the games straight from the sd card because traditional cartridges need random access to run a game properly. They all copy the rom from sd to another medium such as ram or another type of flash memory which do allow for random access. This is great for most consoles in which the megabyte (not megabit) count for any given game can be counted on one hand. The neo geo on the other hand has meg counts reaching close to 100 megabytes for the later titles plus that space is spread across 5 separate rom buses so you can't just slap a large single flash memory chip on there and call it day. Also, not having access to refurbished flash memory that the multi-carts use means buying them new which is spendy these days.

 

[Fygee]

The issue with having a neo flash cart with SD cards as the storage medium is the lack of random access. SD cards are super cheap in their storage vs. cost ratio because they use NAND flash but because of the aforementioned limitations, you would have to go with older, more expensive, and less memory dense NOR flash for the random access.

As far as I know, all the current flash carts like the everdrive only use the sd card as a means of mass storage. It doesn't run the games straight from the sd card because traditional cartridges need random access to run a game properly. They all copy the rom from sd to another medium such as ram or another type of flash memory which do allow for random access. This is great for most consoles in which the megabyte (not megabit) count for any given game can be counted on one hand. The neo geo on the other hand has meg counts reaching close to 100 megabytes for the later titles plus that space is spread across 5 separate rom buses so you can't just slap a large single flash memory chip on there and call it day. Also, not having access to refurbished flash memory that the multi-carts use means buying them new which is spendy these days.

Well, if there's any gaming community that probably won't care as much about how spendy it would be, its this one. Considering Darksoft's cart is already estimated to be $350-$450, I'm fairly sure people would be on board for a true, high quality fixed multicart as well.

Good info. Thanks!

 

[Razoola]

I would not rely to much on what darksoft says his cart will be or will do or will cost. He is someone who cannot be trusted. He has broke his word to me and this forum on what he would do on his CPS2 device. Expect the same on his future projects.

 

[Electric Grave]

This is how it should be, the games already on the cart (like the multi already out there) but just a much better user UI and configuration.

I agree, make a decent multi board with all the titles, nice UI and call it a day...it's not like we're gonna be adding titles to the cart anyway so we don't need the SD card.

 

[aoiddr]

I agree, make a decent multi board with all the titles, nice UI and call it a day...it's not like we're gonna be adding titles to the cart anyway so we don't need the SD card.

Well... imagine if there's a new CD-to-Cart release like Crossed Swords II in the future. Or if someone makes a solid hack like Metal Slug X turbo that you wanted, or just you really just want a fighting game hack with all the bosses all playable. You wouldn't have a way to add them.

 

[Electric Grave]

It's ok little brother, you can just get that cart individually. Just make a multicart with nothing but official releases, I mean we definitely don't need LoSJ in there but hell mind as well have the entire legit library even if some games don't ever get played, there's always that one weird joe that likes to play minasano...

 

[Heinz]

If we try to incorporate every feature every person mentions, this cartridge will never exist. The multigame cartridges already in existence are an example we should follow as Razoola has mentioned. Being able to add in a proto here or a hombrew there is to complicate the design. This needs to be simple.

 

[Missile]

I agree I just want a multicart that's plays every game perfectly and has all the standard games included. And... LoSJ should def be included

Leave all the extra things for the future, once the basics have been executed perfectly.

 

[Nostromo]

It is a pity Krikkz from the Everdrive devices never bothered to make a Neo Geo one. The guy's devices are awesome.

 

[Razoola]

Here is the thing. The NeoGeo has the best base one could ask for when designing a multicart/everdrive type device for it. You have the ability to kill every other everdrive type device in existence (on any other platform) with what you can do with one on the NeoGeo platform. If you simply design a device for the NeoGeo based on what's already out there, all I can say is one has limited themselves by their lack of vision.

 

[Rot]

Here is the thing. The NeoGeo has the best base one could ask for when designing a multicart/everdrive type device for it. You have the ability to kill every other everdrive type device in existence (on any other platform) with what you can do with one on the NeoGeo platform. If you simply design a device for the NeoGeo based on what's already out there, all I can say is one has limited themselves by their lack of vision.

I'd like details... and a way to accomplish this... kthx...

xROTx

PS. Here's what I... Rot Phung Te... propose... a joint time, money venture... to create the ultimate NG device that will play everygame that is available... and can be added to afterwards..

EDIT: This for me kills 2 birds with one stone...

1) It means we as a community get to do it... hence, control the parts of the process... including price points...
2) Fucks over Darksoft and his kissass cronies...

 

[Jon]

Here is the thing. The NeoGeo has the best base one could ask for when designing a multicart/everdrive type device for it. You have the ability to kill every other everdrive type device in existence (on any other platform) with what you can do with one on the NeoGeo platform. If you simply design a device for the NeoGeo based on what's already out there, all I can say is one has limited themselves by their lack of vision.

I think I get what you're saying. If you make an Everdrive-like device for Neo Geo, it will be able to run other systems, ie. earlier less powerful systems on it, as well.

While it would be nice to have a go to device to play every system like that, besides what's already available out there (modded X-Box, smart phones, emulators, etc.) I think it would be nice if we could just focus on Neo Geo only instead.

Sorry if I misinterpreted you post...

Jon

 

[wyo]

If making a good Neo multi or Everdrive type device was relatively easy, surely someone would have done so by this point. Owning legit copies of the entire library is well into five figure territory now. The market could withstand a much higher price than the $100-$200 charged for other systems. Surely the financial incentive is a given. Do it right, don't cut corners, and charge an appropriate price. Ideally, all the tech experts would put egos and bullshit aside and work together to achieve this. Realistically though, get off your ass and build a rival product as Rot suggests. Time to put up or shut up.

 

[Razoola]

I think I get what you're saying. If you make an Everdrive-like device for Neo Geo, it will be able to run other systems, ie. earlier less powerful systems on it, as well.

While it would be nice to have a go to device to play every system like that, besides what's already available out there (modded X-Box, smart phones, emulators, etc.) I think it would be nice if we could just focus on Neo Geo only instead.

Sorry if I misinterpreted you post...

Jon

Yes you misunderstood, I did not mean the NeoGeo could run other systems. I was saying a NeoGeo everdrive type device can have features that everdrives built for other systems do not have.

 

[Electric Grave]

I agree, there's just no vision, or maybe there is but no incentive to get it done?

 

[lions3]

As mentioned earlier. I vote for keeping it simple stupid.

Official released carts is a fixed number. Just make a cart with those. Less moving parts. Don't worry about custom and homebrew. That's an unknown and will always be changing. If you're building a product, this is what kills you. Having to build for something that's coming later. It also kills the need for SD cards and USB.

Neo-Geo official releases are done. Build a cart with only them. That's what everyone beeeotches about the multicarts anyway.

Also to keep all the legal stuff above board. Sell the cart with the "game roms" chip not included. Maybe with a slot similar to MVS bios. So no soldering is needed to add the roms later. This also makes it so you could have a different chip with different games. (official and maybe unofficial?)

Am I spouting madness?

 

[Llama]

If it's possible, build the cart with the SD card feature like the other offerings from different companies.

This seems to be the simplest option. I am shocked that such a creature isn't wildly available by now. I'm sure someone has made one but lacks the resources to mass produce.