*UPDATED* NeoGeo proto screenshots

[aria]

I just wanted to add that when you really get down to it, Xacrow's reluctancy to divulge the game code numbers is absolutely ridiculous! Were not asking Xacrow for launch codes for intercontinental thermonuclear missile rockets! These are not top secret military secret launch codes! The game code numbers are MEANINGLESS to "SNK", not that it would matter anyhow even if for some silly reason they were, seeing as they are out of the neo-geo business all together.

I just gotta say, I don't know who looks more immature...ME for embarrassing myself by begging Xacrow for these numbers, or Xacrow for making an ass out of himself by not giving them out.

(but hey at least I am sane enough to recognize and admit this here)

...and but even worse then that...!!!...!!!...

I don't know who's cRaZiEr...ME for offering Xacrow an insane amount of money for JUST the numbers!!!...or Xacrow for actually turning it down!!!???!!!


Billy Pitt

Xacrow.

On both counts.

He's clearly got mental issues. I still think he's BSing everyone.

There're too many Howard Hughes-type people in this hobby.

 

[RAINBOW PONY]

You know, what if he doesn't have the Protos in the first place? What if he only has the emulated roms, when he maybe borrowed the actual protos from a friend, and copied them off without the real Proto guy's knowledge.

I say he doesn't have the Proto Carts, just Emulated Roms. That's why he won't give the numbers.

 

[Tempest]

With the second posting of screenshots, Xacrow made the addition of in-game shots (in most cases) to the games, as well as made public a very helpfull and interesting list of "test" (proto) titles. It was then determined based on the "modern" look of the in-game shot of Magic Master...coupled with the 1997 date documented next to it on the "test" list...that our initial theory was incorrect. Rather it would seem that Magic Master was a more recent unreleased title, and sadly NOT one of the long lost 3 titles.

Yes I was just thinking that the graphics looked a bit too 'pretty' to be one of the early unreleased games. I'd guess that it falls more in the 94-95 range when all those cutesy puzzlers were produced. Just a guess though.

Now, after Xacrows THIRD posting of proto related pics & info, we are plunged even further into confusion as Treasure of the Carribean is now visually confirmed to possibly have been yet another previously unknown neo geo proto. (I won't discuss King of Athletes because a...we already knew about it from several other sources and b...without any screenshots, it is no closer to being considered as a possible proto then Magician Lord 2 is)

Yes strange that KoA doesn't have any screenshots with it. Perhaps it was just a concept that never got produced? Treasure of the Carribean is an odd one alright, it looks very primitive but not enough to be one of the early three. Also strange that no one had heard about it until now.

The point is that the damn games just DON'T FIT on the list. We simply don't have holes to fill in the circa 1994 or circa 1996 sections. If anything, we are already bursting at the seams in those time periods and can barely even support what we already have. Quite literally to the point that we are now doubting titles such as QP and Karate Ninja sho as well as considering re-settling Last Odyssey and Pair Pair Wars. In english, as a result of this latest information we are thankfull that we now know more, but we are frustrated that we now doubt what we knew before!

How were Last Odyssey and Pair Pair Wars NGH numbers determined in the first place? I assumed that the person with the roms was able to tell somehow. Was it just done by figuring out the year and placing it in the list where there was a gap around the proper time?

I wouldn't doubt QP and Karate Ninja Sho just yet, there's enough evidence that they existed at some point to keep them on the list.

The truth is that yet again, for the third time now mind you, we are left with the SAME PROBLEM every time Xacrow posts...we need the NGH numbers for the games that he has. Getting those 4 NGH numbers will "SOLIDIFY" 4 of our "floaters" which will in and of itself be obviously extremely usefull, but will also then in turn help our placement of the remaining titles since they will now be severely limited as to where they can fit chronologically.

Let me throw this out at you. As you may or may not know, I've being doing pretty much what you've been doing (trying to make a prototype time line) for Atari 2600/5200/7800 prototypes for years now. One of the first things I discovered with Atari prototypes is that there were many prototypes that, although complete, were never assigned a part number. Therefore trying to figure out where in the list they fit was impossible, because they never fit into the list in the first place! I've also come across prototypes where the part number was reassigned to another game or even times when multiple part numbers were assigned to the SAME game, just with a different name.

My point is that perhaps these prototypes don’t fit into the list at all! They may never have been assigned a number, or maybe the number was reassigned after they were canned? You can never be sure unless you get some internal SNK part list. We've been lucky in the Atari community as a few of these lists have turned up, but Atari is a long dead company located in the US, where as SNK-Playmore is not. Getting such a list would be nigh impossible I'm afraid.

You know, what if he doesn't have the Protos in the first place? What if he only has the emulated roms, when he maybe borrowed the actual protos from a friend, and copied them off without the real Proto guy's knowledge.

This is what I'm beginning to think might be the case (and why he's so defensive about answering simple questions about them). Perhaps he was 'loaned' these prototypes so he could make copies, but no longer has them in his possession? With SNK-Playmore still being very much alive, having such prototypes or roms in your possession is a very risky thing. He may be simply trying to cover his own butt legally by refusing to give out any more information on them. Just a thought.

Tempest

 

[RAINBOW PONY]

This is what I'm beginning to think might be the case (and why he's so defensive about answering simple questions about them). Perhaps he was 'loaned' these prototypes so he could make copies, but no longer has them in his possession? With SNK-Playmore still being very much alive, having such prototypes or roms in your possession is a very risky thing. He may be simply trying to cover his own butt legally by refusing to give out any more information on them. Just a thought.

Tempest

And what exactly would SNK-Playmore do if they found this out? Sue? How much money would they be able to get from a simple Proto hoarding guy?

Let's look at this realistically.

SNKP won't sue, because they will LOSE money in Court fees.

SNKP can take the Proto Carts back, if they belong to them.

However, if the Roms are dumped already, and a whole lot of people already download the roms, onto their PCs and X-Boxes, SNKP can't control that.

Say if Xacrow makes 10 MVS Carts of each of these, and sells them all. It's all out in the open now, and SNKP can't do jack about it, they can only take possession of the Proto Carts, not the copies.

SNKP can't, and won't try to figure out every person who got an MVS Cart from it, and all the people who downloaded the roms onto many many PCs and X-Boxes.

Dumping them so the people on these forums can get to them is a complete win win situation.

 

[OlderGames]

I just wanted to add that when you really get down to it, Xacrow's reluctancy to divulge the game code numbers is absolutely ridiculous! Were not asking

Gentlemen,

I agree with dipshit here. Welll except for the part
where he says "we're" instead of "I".

main;

BillyPittBrowniePoints = BillyPittBrowniePoints + 1

if BillyPittBrowniePoints = > 50 then
print "Congratulations on the badge little girl!"
else: "come back later for free cookies!"

end if


LOL.

 

[Tempest]

And what exactly would SNK-Playmore do if they found this out? Sue? How much money would they be able to get from a simple Proto hoarding guy?

You'd be surprised. If SNK thinks that this guy has their intellectual property, and if they think that some day they may be able to make some money off it, they might very well sue. If not for money, for return on the prototype or roms.

The Atari prototype community used to be very open about prototypes (selling and distributing roms), but since the big 'A' is now back they've been cracking down on their intellectual property, especially since they now know that money can be made on it.

SNKP won't sue, because they will LOSE money in Court fees.

If they think someone has their intellectual property they may very well sue. Like I said, there's more reasons to sue than just for money such as to set an example or to defend property rights, etc.

SNKP can take the Proto Carts back, if they belong to them.

Correct. Which is why this guy may not want to be outted

However, if the Roms are dumped already, and a whole lot of people already download the roms, onto their PCs and X-Boxes, SNKP can't control that.

Dumping them so the people on these forums can get to them is a complete win win situation

You’re assuming the only reason he's not dumping and distributing these is fear, however they are many other possible reasons. I've been given protos before so I could review the, but only if I promised not to release the rom, he may be in a similar situation. He could be a former SNK-Playmore employee who doesn't want his work pirated over the internet (not everyone thinks that having their game downloaded and spread all over the world is a compliment). He could be fearful of lawsuits, even if the likelihood of such is slim (I know I wouldn't want to risk it).

There are many risks involved in dumping and releasing a proto, and since the only 'gain' for him is to please hard core Neo Geo freaks, he may not be inclined to do it. I learned long ago that people aren't always going to share their one of a kind gems just because you ask nicely. Therefore I learned to just be content with what they are willing to share, and hope that one day they'll change their mind. Patience is the key.

<shameless plug>
BTW if anyone is interested in Atari prototypes, you can check out my prototype site: www.AtariProtos.com
</shameless plug>

Tempest

 

[OlderGames]

<shameless plug>
BTW if anyone is interested in Atari prototypes, you can check out my prototype site: www.AtariProtos.com
</shameless plug>

Tempest

Aha! I know you! You roomed with Slaven at cge a couple years back!
I was the guy getting hitched that weekend. LOL

Personally I agree with everything you just said btw.
I think there is a lot of stuff going on in this story that
just isn't quite clear yet. Either way flaunting things
and having a hissy fit when asked for additional info
like pitts numbers which although I disagree with
him on his means of asking are still very trivial and
IMHO there is definately something more to it...

 

[Tempest]

Aha! I know you! You roomed with Slaven at cge a couple years back!
I was the guy getting hitched that weekend. LOL

Hi! Yep that was me! Long time no see.

Personally I agree with everything you just said btw. I
think there is a lot of stuff going on in this story that
just isn't quite clear yet. Either way flaunting things
and having a hissy fit when asked for additional info
like pitts numbers which although I disagree with
him on his means of asking are still very trivial and
IMHO there is definately something more to it...

It could be something as simple as he got scared off. I know I've seen that before. You come forward with some new unknown prototype and the next thing you know there are 50+ people e-mailing you telling you what you should or shouldn't do with it. It can be quite overwhelming and scary, especially if the person isn't a message board veteran. I've seen more than one programmer scared off by overzealous prototype collectors.

Tempest

 

[OlderGames]

Hi! Yep that was me! Long time no see.


Tempest

Right on.
Good to see another recognizable face around here.

 

[Dean]

What really could SNKP say about protos? They have outright SOLD them themselves! At least many have been sold to people like Dion and Chris Ray and also to Vektorlogic. This is known fact. They liquidated stock and in the stock were internal items like development units, protos, etc. Same just happened with Acclaim.

This means nothing though about distributing the roms. What it means to me is that I don't think revealing their existence is a big deal.

 

[aria]

I think Tempest and D-Lite have between them identified why Xacrow is acting like a weirdo:

He doesn't know what SNK-P will do: are they going to act like Atari and try and get it back or were these particular protos sold legitimately?:

Meh, still doesn't excuse his shadiness.

 

[OlderGames]

Ok... I wrote a Dion length reply to this putting everyone
in their place but I don't wish to post it since people would
be bored reading it and my horrible typing.

Just know the following:

My suggestions to Pitt and the community are to drop the
drama. Pitt - you haven't done shit for the community
and in case your O.S.D. meds are making you blind with
forgetfulness TONK brought us ghostlop - NOT YOU,
Xacrow - you are a piece of shit for starting this all
knowing EXACTLY what you were starting, and to the
rest - forget about it for now. You'll find that the
less important these are to you, the less important
they will become to Xacrow in owning.

My personal belief is that he has squat, even Pitt
is coming to an agreement on that now too.

Let it go folks, why drudge up old drama when
you know nothing can be done about it right now?


Thats as short as I can make it - END OF STORY.

 

[Tempest]

I feel bad now for bringing this all up again. I just saw some Neo Geo proto information and was really interested. I guess we should just drop it again...

Tempest

 

[Shito]

There're too many Howard Hughes-type people in this hobby.

Here I am.

 

[SuperGun]

I'm not done with this thread yet

...One of the first things I discovered with Atari prototypes is that there were many prototypes that, although complete, were never assigned a part number. Therefore trying to figure out where in the list they fit was impossible, because they never fit into the list in the first place! I've also come across prototypes where the part number was reassigned to another game or even times when multiple part numbers were assigned to the SAME game, just with a different name.

My point is that perhaps these prototypes don’t fit into the list at all! They may never have been assigned a number, or maybe the number was reassigned after they were canned? You can never be sure unless you get some internal SNK part list. We've been lucky in the Atari community as a few of these lists have turned up, but Atari is a long dead company located in the US, where as SNK-Playmore is not. Getting such a list would be nigh impossible I'm afraid. Tempest

Tempest,

Yes, I am very familiar with your website and yes I am well aware of the complications involved with the Atari part numbers. Titles like Atari Video Cube renamed to Rubik's Cube yet assigned a new number. As well as Track & Field having a label error with the incorrect part number. As well as discovered protos with of course no title screen and no discernable designation. etc. The neo is the same. Anyone who has a Twinkle Star Sprites homecart can check and see what I mean. The label has the incorrect game code number.

The truth is that we don't yet know for certain wether or not the number of neogeo protos exceeds the number of gaps in the game code list. It is very possible that they do however, and this would of course change the entire scope of the puzzle.



I mentioned to someone a couple days ago that Zupapa was (IS) in essence "The Rosetta Stone" of the neo-geo game code list. It was shown to the public at the AOU Exposition in Japan on February 22nd, 1994. It was then indefintely postponed. A 100% genuine "proto" which by all means would have been an appropriate referance to the game for 7 years. Then in 2001 the game was officially released by SNK. Low and behold that it's game code number is NGM-070. The original / sequential number which it had in 1994. It remained UNTOUCHED and unchanged EVEN AFTER snk did some minor re-programming adjustments to the game such as the title screens removal of the original licensee and its' display of the new copyright.

Just because some sap sits down and draws a few characters & storyboards and jots down a few ideas for a "King of Athletes" game, does not in even the slightest bit mean that the ideas were ever realized or ever came to be. We have to stick to the FACTS of what we DO know and create a least common denominator by which any and all possible neo protos need to meet in order to achieve a "proto status".

The "list" that was provided by Xacrow was very interesting and informative, but even it has far too many errors and is severely incomplete. It is usefull as a referance and as an assistance tool, but by NO MEANS is it infallible. 7 of the known protos are NOT even listed, several betas and even released titles ARE listed, and a handfull of "never even heard of that" titles are listed. As I said, it's what it is.

We don't yet know at exactly what point along the process a game code number is assigned to a neo-geo product. But one thing IS certain, Zupapa was assigned a number, and despite the fact that it was not released, the number remained reserved. Same deal with Fun Fun Brothers and Ghostlop. So we CAN assume with (so far) 100% confidence (based on the above 3 protos) that an assigned number equates to a working / complete (functional) game.


Billy Pitt

 

[SNKJorge]

Hey guys, I'm going to a fighting game tournament tomorrow, anyone wanna
ride along?

 

[-Hibikster-]

Hey guys, I'm going to a fighting game tournament tomorrow, anyone wanna
ride along?

You wouldn't happen to be going to the one in Brampton Ontario would you?

 

[SNKJorge]

You wouldn't happen to be going to the one in Brampton Ontario would you?

Nope

 

[-Hibikster-]

Nope

Ah alright, I thought it was too close of a damn coincidence, I'm going to a tournament tomorrow which consists of MOTW, SF3, and other goodies.

 

[massimiliano]

Brikinger is out for 900 wii points (hope it won't take 4 years for the next!)

 

[SSS]

Brikinger is out for 900 wii points (hope it won't take 4 years for the next!)

Why'd you bump this?

 

[massimiliano]

Why'd you bump this?

Just for fun, nevermind :P

 

[maldoror68]

yup, digging up....

so, and then, Iroclad is out on Wii market ,everybody's having it's own dreamed AES or MVS cart of Brikinger.

so...could we dream of a Crossed sword 2 / Baster blaze on Wii ????? or any other non-mvs game taken from SNK drawer ?
hey, mister big N ,what are your neo geo's Wii VC plans for 2011 ?

yes, you see me coming...

 

[maldoror68]

WOHOW! heyoh!

new release in view...

*rolling drum*

it's Bang Bang Busters!

the news here in french: (24 november news)
http://www.gametronik.com/site/news-18741-Bang_Bang_Busters_AES_release.html

the english google translation: (24 november news)
http://translate.googleusercontent....gle.fr&usg=ALkJrhiGKcZx4RivHstoYQ3KK-OYhL6nhg

it's fiesta time today!
neo geo will never die

 

[aria]

WOHOW! heyoh!

new release in view...

*rolling drum*

it's Bang Bang Busters!

the news here in french: (24 november news)
http://www.gametronik.com/site/news-18741-Bang_Bang_Busters_AES_release.html

the english google translation: (24 november news)
http://translate.googleusercontent....gle.fr&usg=ALkJrhiGKcZx4RivHstoYQ3KK-OYhL6nhg

it's fiesta time today!
neo geo will never die

Sigh... did you NOT notice the other thread about this exact same subject?