The work of the year! The NEO MASTER LIST (definitive version)

[MtothaJ]

KOF '98 have the normal SNK jingle opening.

Mine boots with 'KOF98' title, then 'SNK Presents', then 'Special Edition' and then the intro rolls.
No SNK spinning logo or jingle. SN is 21490, red cart shell.

 

[Razoola]

You have to let kof98 attract mode cycle through once and then the spinning logo will happen.

 

[bloodycelt]

The original document is made on Microsoft Word. I had big difficult to convert in hmtl or pdf, so I used the images system.

Send the document to me, I can convert it to PDF. (Or anyone with OSX for that matter can by opening it in Word, then selecting Print, and choosing to Print As PDF).

 

[Razoola]

I don't see how pdf would be better than it is now, html would be better so you don't need massive desktop res to see the entire width, html will auto wrap much as needed.

 

[bloodycelt]

I don't see how pdf would be better than it is now, html would be better so you don't need massive desktop res to see the entire width, html will auto wrap much as needed.

It takes 5-10 min at most to convert word to pdf, which would at least allow for downloading and printing. (The idea would be to shrink the width to that of 1 page).

HTML is doable, would take some time, I agree with the OP Word -> HTML = not fun. You would have to manually copy all the text elements, add in css to place those images properly in the table and what-not. But if done right it would look nice in the browser. (And load faster).

 

[aha2940]

I know at least 4 different kof98 romsets:

- Encrypted (SF1 board)
- Unencrypted
- Korean
- The one where they curse at the beginning. Yes, it's real, my cart does it.

Regards.

 

[Redguard]

I present you the NEO MASTER LIST after 4 months of hard work, the definitive full list of NEO GEO software.

The old Master List on neo-geo.com is obsolete and this new document replace it entirely. For the first time are included some unpublished informations.

The main differences comparing the old document available on neo-geo.com are:

01) MVS version distributor in japan;

02) MVS and AES differences (list at the end of document);

03) default difficult in MVS version and number of levels difficulty in dip switch;

04) japanese flyer / chirashi of the MVS game;

05) number of buttons active in the game;

06) AES version rental distribution;

07) SS 3D list (Sphero Symphony 3D stereophonic surround sounds);

08) MVS different set release;

09) Correct original game title;

10) Preliminary / beta title of the games;

11) Correct megabit counting with hex editor program (very big work!). After so many years, it is understood that the megabit count on the AES inserts, catalogues and flyers was in big part wrong;

12) Jingle type (musical opening of the neo geo game);

13) the correct 100 mega shock list (The membership in the 100 mega shock is determined by SNK, by means of the official advertising / chirashi. In my document you can see:

"B" = mention on the original AES box;
"D" = mention on the demonstration of the game;
"F" = mention on the original japanese flyer.

If 100 mega shock logo not appear in one or all these situations, the game is not 100 mega shock;

14) for the first time: the complete date of release of MVS version (AES and CD was already available in the web);

15) for the first time: the complete price list of the MVS version (AES and CD was already available in the web);

For any questions, I'm free.

The NEO MASTER LIST:

http://www.neogeoitaly.net/masterlist.asp

Excellent work!

 

[gamescollector]

It takes 5-10 min at most to convert word to pdf, which would at least allow for downloading and printing. (The idea would be to shrink the width to that of 1 page).

HTML is doable, would take some time, I agree with the OP Word -> HTML = not fun. You would have to manually copy all the text elements, add in css to place those images properly in the table and what-not. But if done right it would look nice in the browser. (And load faster).

The choose to make the graphic document is also to preserve the only online consultation. Soon on the site neogeoitaly.net there will be other sections consulted and a graph database for all snk stuff

 

[evil wasabi]

Looks great. But doesn't acknowledge previous master list, which I imagine was used in constructing this document.

 

[Gemant]

I'm finding it difficult to see how there could be 6 different ROM combinations setups for kof97. How can you tell the information on the ROM is not identical from picture? Can you list them for me as I'm interested to see how SNK could do it. How I read the page the set information is related to different software revisions of the game and not different ways a cart can be made. That is very confusing.

Initially I thought to entrust to the number of sets on MAME. But then I realized that many alternative sets were missing, so I relied on a well-known site in its database exposes the number of sets known showing the pictures of the boards of silicon inside the cartridges MVS highlighting various parts changed from Set to Set. I can not say that analysis was done to identify the different sets, but since there is not a thorough work, I merely report what I saw in that database that is certainly not have all the different sets distributed.

 

[Razoola]

Initially I thought to entrust to the number of sets on MAME. But then I realized that many alternative sets were missing, so I relied on a well-known site in its database exposes the number of sets known showing the pictures of the boards of silicon inside the cartridges MVS highlighting various parts changed from Set to Set. I can not say that analysis was done to identify the different sets, but since there is not a thorough work, I merely report what I saw in that database that is certainly not have all the different sets distributed.

Can you give me a link to the site in question so I can look at that database for myself.

Raz

 

[Gemant]

From here:

http://www.mvs-scans.com/index.php/Main_Page

 

[Razoola]

From here:

http://www.mvs-scans.com/index.php/Main_Page

I have had a quick look going though the PROG boards. Please forgive me if I am wrong but it looks to me that the only difference between the 5 sets PROG boards which I can see (1 picture is not visible) after a quick look is a difference in the branding on the maskROMs. While it is good to have a database of pictures like mvs-scans offers so people can see differences in original versions of the game, to call each one a different revision of the game is quite misleading I feel. As far as I see it and maybe many others would also, there are only 2 release revisions of KOF97 known as of this time.

I think you either need to remove all the set information from your master list (esp as it only relates to MVS) or update the text so it clearly states that it does not represent revisions of the game but rather different ways SNK were known to have built MVS carts only.

I don't want you to think I don't appreciate the effort you have put into the list because I do. In some ways however including set information like you have is not really relevant to the master list unless it relates to real game revision differences and a way for the list reader to identify which revision they have or want to obtain. What springs to mind here for example is SS5SP and the fixed/unfixed AES versions. That for example I see as 2 AES revisions of the game even if SNK made those carts in 10 different ways.

Raz

 

[Xian Xi]

It's just the different mask rom brands, that's when SNK was flipping between Toshiba and Sharp.

 

[Geddon_jt]

Great job, some neat data on there. For sure my list could use updating. Unfortunate I'm no longer the single jobless college kid I was when I started that project back in 2000. Many times I've said I want to update it but time is so scarce for me. Maybe tonight I'll post some ideas I've had over the years to improve the list. Not as a critique of what OP has done but suggestions for how to make whoever's list as usable and helpful as possible.

 

[Geddon_jt]

So, here are some of my ideas for where I would go if the Master List revisions were up to me. Which, I guess for purposes of this site, they kind of are, but reality is I likely do not have the time to put into it to do it justice. This isn't a critique of the OP's list, or even my list, really just an idea of how I would ideally like it to be. A lot has changed since the last update in 2004.

1. The Master List should be in a database format - not a Spreadsheet or just raw HTML. I LOVE the system at nintendoage.com. Every category (title/developer/year/rarity whatever) is clickable so that all the games are sorted by whatever you want to look at. In the case of Neo Geo, I have always wanted the Master List to be able to be viewed by NGH numbers. Unfortunately it always was easier to read and made more sense just being alphabetical. But with a system like Neo Geo, with only 140 or so licensed games, being able to sort things how you want can really tell a lot of interesting stories about the development history of the system.

2. The rarity guides should be integrated into the Master List. Enough time has passed where we can probably come up with a 1 to 10 scale for every platform - MVS, AES and CD, that is for the most part reliable. Again, Nintendoage in my opinion has nailed this at least as far as NES is concerned and there are almost 700 licensed games.

3. All of the homebrew stuff should be included. It's not my thing but clearly this is a big part of the Neo Geo and a big reason people are still interested in the system. All of the NGev games should be listed, all the Neobitz stuff, NCI, NGF, even old stuff like Vektorlogic - they should all be listed as Developers, but with a clear way to distinguish them as homebrews, as well as a clear way to show that the independent releases of lost games aren't official SNK releases (Neobitz Crossed Swords 2, NCI Bang2 Busters, etc.)

4. English v Japanese CD release distinctions needs to be added.

5. We need distinctions for different "styles" of AES releases (first gen, carton box, dog tag, Euro style etc) along with case type (soft case or snapback). Some games can check nearly all of those boxes and I always wanted to show that... (League Bowling and Ghost Pilots come to mind)

6. In my opinion if we are going to start worrying about romset revisions those should be viewable when you click on the game title, along with all other pertinent information about the game. Pics of the game across all formats, maybe even PCB photos, release notes, etc.

As an aside, it's interesting to me how this new list has integrated so much new data (pricing/ROM revisions/rental versions etc.) but doesn't have information about releases across the various regions for the different formats. From that perspective, it almost has nothing to do with the list on this site, which was designed primarily to provide region information when (to say the least) it was extremely unclear to a lot of people at the time (early 2000s) what games came out where by SNK officially. That is ancient history now and those questions have long been settled so I guess if we are going to call the list on this site crappy and outdated you have to find new stuff to add since I would like to think the list here solved a lot of those really big problems a long time ago. Personally, I would be more interested in making the list more modern, and searchable, so the data people come for can be found quickly and easily, rather than just piling on a bunch of esoteric data (unless that stuff can be found within the page for each game after clicking on the game for more info). Just go to the Nintendoage database, that would be my model.

 

[joe8]

I present you the NEO MASTER LIST after 4 months of hard work, the definitive full list of NEO GEO software.

The old Master List on neo-geo.com is obsolete and this new document replace it entirely. For the first time are included some unpublished informations.

The main differences comparing the old document available on neo-geo.com are:

01) MVS version distributor in japan;

02) MVS and AES differences (list at the end of document);

03) default difficult in MVS version and number of levels difficulty in dip switch;

04) japanese flyer / chirashi of the MVS game;

05) number of buttons active in the game;

06) AES version rental distribution;

07) SS 3D list (Sphero Symphony 3D stereophonic surround sounds);

08) MVS different set release;

09) Correct original game title;

10) Preliminary / beta title of the games;

11) Correct megabit counting with hex editor program (very big work!). After so many years, it is understood that the megabit count on the AES inserts, catalogues and flyers was in big part wrong;

12) Jingle type (musical opening of the neo geo game);

13) the correct 100 mega shock list (The membership in the 100 mega shock is determined by SNK, by means of the official advertising / chirashi. In my document you can see:

"B" = mention on the original AES box;
"D" = mention on the demonstration of the game;
"F" = mention on the original japanese flyer.

If 100 mega shock logo not appear in one or all these situations, the game is not 100 mega shock;

14) for the first time: the complete date of release of MVS version (AES and CD was already available in the web);

15) for the first time: the complete price list of the MVS version (AES and CD was already available in the web);

For any questions, I'm free.

The NEO MASTER LIST:

http://www.neogeoitaly.net/masterlist.asp

3) Don't all MVS games have 8 levels of difficulty in the dip switches (not any more or less)?
13) So, a game can be quoted as >100 megabits by SNK, but still not be a 100 mega shock title, if SNK has not identified it as such? That makes no sense, as the 100 mega shock title was hyperbole in many cases, anyway.
11) The correct megabit count was whatever SNK stated it as. I suppose you could work out the actual megabit count, by looking at the game rom files. But, in that case, you should work it out in megabytes instead.
To have a complete Master List, you have to include complete details on the unreleased games, which is unlikely at this stage.

 

[Gemant]

Some games have only 4 levels, other have 15 levels (ASO II), I checked all games.

The correct megabit count now have a correct value, after a hard work of about 10/15 minuts for title with a tool program.

 

[[OCEAN]]

Great job and neat presentation!

 

[Gemant]

So, here are some of my ideas for where I would go if the Master List revisions were up to me. Which, I guess for purposes of this site, they kind of are, but reality is I likely do not have the time to put into it to do it justice. This isn't a critique of the OP's list, or even my list, really just an idea of how I would ideally like it to be. A lot has changed since the last update in 2004.

1. The Master List should be in a database format - not a Spreadsheet or just raw HTML. I LOVE the system at nintendoage.com. Every category (title/developer/year/rarity whatever) is clickable so that all the games are sorted by whatever you want to look at. In the case of Neo Geo, I have always wanted the Master List to be able to be viewed by NGH numbers. Unfortunately it always was easier to read and made more sense just being alphabetical. But with a system like Neo Geo, with only 140 or so licensed games, being able to sort things how you want can really tell a lot of interesting stories about the development history of the system.

2. The rarity guides should be integrated into the Master List. Enough time has passed where we can probably come up with a 1 to 10 scale for every platform - MVS, AES and CD, that is for the most part reliable. Again, Nintendoage in my opinion has nailed this at least as far as NES is concerned and there are almost 700 licensed games.

3. All of the homebrew stuff should be included. It's not my thing but clearly this is a big part of the Neo Geo and a big reason people are still interested in the system. All of the NGev games should be listed, all the Neobitz stuff, NCI, NGF, even old stuff like Vektorlogic - they should all be listed as Developers, but with a clear way to distinguish them as homebrews, as well as a clear way to show that the independent releases of lost games aren't official SNK releases (Neobitz Crossed Swords 2, NCI Bang2 Busters, etc.)

4. English v Japanese CD release distinctions needs to be added.

5. We need distinctions for different "styles" of AES releases (first gen, carton box, dog tag, Euro style etc) along with case type (soft case or snapback). Some games can check nearly all of those boxes and I always wanted to show that... (League Bowling and Ghost Pilots come to mind)

6. In my opinion if we are going to start worrying about romset revisions those should be viewable when you click on the game title, along with all other pertinent information about the game. Pics of the game across all formats, maybe even PCB photos, release notes, etc.

As an aside, it's interesting to me how this new list has integrated so much new data (pricing/ROM revisions/rental versions etc.) but doesn't have information about releases across the various regions for the different formats. From that perspective, it almost has nothing to do with the list on this site, which was designed primarily to provide region information when (to say the least) it was extremely unclear to a lot of people at the time (early 2000s) what games came out where by SNK officially. That is ancient history now and those questions have long been settled so I guess if we are going to call the list on this site crappy and outdated you have to find new stuff to add since I would like to think the list here solved a lot of those really big problems a long time ago. Personally, I would be more interested in making the list more modern, and searchable, so the data people come for can be found quickly and easily, rather than just piling on a bunch of esoteric data (unless that stuff can be found within the page for each game after clicking on the game for more info). Just go to the Nintendoage database, that would be my model.

Everything can be improved, compatible to free time. What I wish to draw attention of all NSAIDs Neo Geo is the quantum leap that was implemented with this new document which proposed a series of information never before published. This was possible thanks to the infinite passion of yours. This new Master List as you see it took something like 600 hours of work, spread over more people. It 'could be realized because dispose of documentation (especially paper) that few in the world have. Only to obtain and calculate the correct data on megabit individual games had to be an investment of about 50 hours, associated with basic competence in computing of two people who have made a special program about the working rom one by one. But also research on release dates about missing certain MVS kit involved the expenditure of a lot of energy. In fact, there have always been at least a dozen games where the day of release has never been disclosed or published anywhere, even on Neo Geo Freak. The hardest part was obtaining the original prices of the kits MVS in Japan. For individual prices are needed more than 30 hours of research including archival web sites and old magazines arcade. I note that on the Internet you can get less than 15% of this information (all the research is based on printed material and on rare links to websites of archives, have disappeared from the network for more than 10 years). The same SNK does not have very much information and missing of which are now lost in time, is proof that the official website offers a list software absolutely inadequate and full of errors. I abstained from dealing outputs Western version for the simple reason that you can not make the release dates of the products concerned. There is no official document to support this data and of course the release dates of MVS and AES Jap / US are different. Sure you could highlight what products exist and in what format but I preferred to draw up a document only to the original materials Japanese. I find myself agreeing instead about exposing the home made products. It is unlicensed productions of which are not interested in taking any research dissemination.

 

[Gemant]

3)
11) The correct megabit count was whatever SNK stated it as. I suppose you could work out the actual megabit count, by looking at the game rom files. But, in that case, you should work it out in megabytes instead.
To have a complete Master List, you have to include complete details on the unreleased games, which is unlikely at this stage.

I regret to inform you that the SNK was very shallow in the calculation of megabits. You can tell even from megabits wrong on many catalogs OFFICIAL manufactured and distributed by SNK itself. During processing of the counts megabits final it was clear that very often the calculation of the SNK was estimated at the time of software development and not completion of the project. This has led to detect the data of the partial products, not complete and on which they could be made more changes.

 

[Geddon_jt]

Everything can be improved, compatible to free time. What I wish to draw attention of all NSAIDs Neo Geo is the quantum leap that was implemented with this new document which proposed a series of information never before published. This was possible thanks to the infinite passion of yours. This new Master List as you see it took something like 600 hours of work, spread over more people. It 'could be realized because dispose of documentation (especially paper) that few in the world have. Only to obtain and calculate the correct data on megabit individual games had to be an investment of about 50 hours, associated with basic competence in computing of two people who have made a special program about the working rom one by one. But also research on release dates about missing certain MVS kit involved the expenditure of a lot of energy. In fact, there have always been at least a dozen games where the day of release has never been disclosed or published anywhere, even on Neo Geo Freak. The hardest part was obtaining the original prices of the kits MVS in Japan. For individual prices are needed more than 30 hours of research including archival web sites and old magazines arcade. I note that on the Internet you can get less than 15% of this information (all the research is based on printed material and on rare links to websites of archives, have disappeared from the network for more than 10 years). The same SNK does not have very much information and missing of which are now lost in time, is proof that the official website offers a list software absolutely inadequate and full of errors. I abstained from dealing outputs Western version for the simple reason that you can not make the release dates of the products concerned. There is no official document to support this data and of course the release dates of MVS and AES Jap / US are different. Sure you could highlight what products exist and in what format but I preferred to draw up a document only to the original materials Japanese. I find myself agreeing instead about exposing the home made products. It is unlicensed productions of which are not interested in taking any research dissemination.

I don't doubt your list took a lot of time, research and work and that is certainly to be commended. The trick and greatest challenge of making a good list great is trying to recognize how it can be most valuable to people who have interests different than your own (such as home-brews, English release information, that sort of thing.) I am with you, I don't care at all about homebrews for the most part, but a lot of people here do, and a big part of the Neo Geo scene these days revolves around these games instead of the old SNK stuff.

 

[oliverclaude]

But then it's a question of the targeted audience, not quality. Marco's list clearly aims at SNK academics with an emphasis on historical facts. It doesn't offer the broad stroked ambition as your own Master List, which could satisfy equally the Neo-Geo afficionado as well as the casual retro-consumer, who wouldn't even noticed half the revolutionary alterations of this new list, remastered, so to speak. It has a clear concept of what to show and is thereby a successfully finished product.

In the end, the audience will still use both of them as two invaluable resources, despite the opinions of both their creators.

 

[Razoola]

Work needs to be done on this new list still to remove the misleading information from it. It will be much better once that's done.

 

[Geddon_jt]

Gemant, where did you get the NGH numbers for the prototype/lost games?