Neo Games That Haven't Aged Well

[oliverclaude]

I can't go back to most of the early Neo games. Either the gameplay is clunky, or overly difficult, or simply boring.

Sure, it may be... but then again, it may also be that the games are just fine and we are the ones, who didn't age well.

 

[sir arthur]

Sure, it may be... but then again, it may also be that the games are just fine and we are the ones, who didn't age well.

Both are correct

 

[Ramad]

Sure, it may be... but then again, it may also be that the games are just fine and we are the ones, who didn't age well.

Nah. The games aren't fun. They were ridiculous back then, and they're just avoidable now.

Are you saying that Puzzled is a game you would have forked 200 dollars for back in 1992? You'd go after Alpha Mission 2 or Andros Dunos when games like Gaiares, Thunderforce 2, or Super R-Type were out? I'd EASILY take Golden Axe 2 over Ninja Combat. The games weren't that great even back then. NOW? They're absolutely forgettable. Especially for the price they command.

 

[madman]

I suppose we can agree to disagree, but Ramad I do agree with some of the games on your list. Puzzled doesn't look like anything that couldn't have been done on another platform at the time. It's barely worth the $30 the MVS cart goes for now, let alone $200 or whatever it would've cost when it was released. However, Baseball Stars Pro, TPG and Magician Lord IMO were worth the cost of admission back in the day. I didn't have that money back then, but those three are still good games. Yeah, BS2 is better than BSP, NTM is better than TPG. When I first played TPG I was let down because it wasn't NTM, but there is fun to be had if you like that style of golf game. Magician Lord I put up there with Nam 75 as a launch classic. Obviously not the most graphically impressive games on the Neo, but they've held their own over the years.

 

[Ramad]

I suppose we can agree to disagree, but Ramad I do agree with some of the games on your list. Puzzled doesn't look like anything that couldn't have been done on another platform at the time. It's barely worth the $30 the MVS cart goes for now, let alone $200 or whatever it would've cost when it was released. However, Baseball Stars Pro, TPG and Magician Lord IMO were worth the cost of admission back in the day. I didn't have that money back then, but those three are still good games. Yeah, BS2 is better than BSP, NTM is better than TPG. When I first played TPG I was let down because it wasn't NTM, but there is fun to be had if you like that style of golf game. Magician Lord I put up there with Nam 75 as a launch classic. Obviously not the most graphically impressive games on the Neo, but they've held their own over the years.

Well, I ain't tryin to get up underneath anyone's skin saying games that they might still look fondly upon. I can see why someone would say that Nam-75 or Crossed Swords aged poorly, but I still like playing those games. I think that Magician Lord has the old, outdated arcade mentality of setting up the game to be artificially difficult, and I'm not a fan of how it controls, but I know folks who still like it. I can't see myself playing a game like Top Players Golf when Neo Turf Masters exists, but that's me.

Now League Bowling? That shit is fire. Where the hell was the sequel for that, SNK???

 

[madman]

Now League Bowling? That shit is fire. Where the hell was the sequel for that, SNK???

No need for a sequel. The original did everything it had to.

 

[Ramad]

No need for a sequel. The original did everything it had to.

lol troof.

 

[Electric Grave]

You know...I do agree with a lot of the games in that list. In a way they are not approachable for the average gamer, take for example Magician Lord, it plays different but behind what seems like clunky controls there's a real good challenging platformer that depends on memorization. Yes, it's not fluid like other games of the time, I think that's the whole point, I dunno, I used to hate the game, now I actually like it, so how is it not aging well when I hated it for years? I gotta thank NeoAlec's youtube video for it, I was just watching along and actually got curious, started playing just 'cause and then it kinda clicked, I think it's 'cause of Dark Souls, game thought me about patience with controls I'm not comfortable with, I think I got used to it, the gravity of it.

Playing ML with dedication for the first time in this day and age feels like an old album you never heard before and then blew you out of the water, it's an incredible experience, I feel like a complete noob for even saying it but I dodge the game for years 'cause I felt the same way you do. I can understand why my younger self never cared for it but I like to think I've gotten wiser about something after all these years, hopefully video games, certainly not life, lol.

 

[wyndcrosser]

I want to love GP, but the dodging is slow. Strikers and AF3 are two classics.

 

[oliverclaude]

Nah. The games aren't fun. They were ridiculous back then, and they're just avoidable now.

Are you saying that Puzzled is a game you would have forked 200 dollars for back in 1992? You'd go after Alpha Mission 2 or Andros Dunos when games like Gaiares, Thunderforce 2, or Super R-Type were out? I'd EASILY take Golden Axe 2 over Ninja Combat. The games weren't that great even back then. NOW? They're absolutely forgettable. Especially for the price they command.

Good argument, yet, there's a huge conceptual difference between console games and arcade games, and if this difference didn't tempt you enough to fork $200 back then, it sure won't today. Which would also suggest, that you just didn't like those games from your list, period. Aging has nothing to do with it.

And to answer your question, yes, I do prefer Alpha Mission 2, Andro Dunos and all other titles you mentioned, but not because of subjective audio-visual liking. The reason is the whole raw arcade package those games deliver, the quarter munching, brutal concept is still thrilling today, as it was back then. Few console games can live up to this live-die-repeat boot camp treatment and in most cases, a port is inferior.

 

[andsuchisdeath]

Good argument, yet, there's a huge conceptual difference between console games and arcade games, and if this difference didn't tempt you enough to fork $200 back then, it sure won't today. Which would also suggest, that you just didn't like those games from your list, period. Aging has nothing to do with it.

And to answer your question, yes, I do prefer Alpha Mission 2, Andro Dunos and all other titles you mentioned, but not because of subjective audio-visual liking. The reason is the whole raw arcade package those games deliver, the quarter munching, brutal concept is still thrilling today, as it was back then. Few console games can live up to this live-die-repeat boot camp treatment and in most cases, a port is inferior.

You said it brother

 

[Ramad]

Good argument, yet, there's a huge conceptual difference between console games and arcade games, and if this difference didn't tempt you enough to fork $200 back then, it sure won't today. Which would also suggest, that you just didn't like those games from your list, period. Aging has nothing to do with it.

And to answer your question, yes, I do prefer Alpha Mission 2, Andro Dunos and all other titles you mentioned, but not because of subjective audio-visual liking. The reason is the whole raw arcade package those games deliver, the quarter munching, brutal concept is still thrilling today, as it was back then. Few console games can live up to this live-die-repeat boot camp treatment and in most cases, a port is inferior.

My opinion isn't based off of the "conceptual difference between console games and arcade games". To me, the Neo Geo AES was a console, so those were console games. I enjoyed ports of arcade games like Ridge Racer on PSX, X-Men vs. Street Fighter on Saturn, and Strider on the Genesis. They still hold up, and I don't mind playing them today.

You do make a good point however. I know that I didn't like either ASO2 or Andros Dunos back when I played them in 92. When I had a choice of getting those games when I first got the Neo, I passed on them. I saw better looking and playing games on "inferior" consoles, so why pay the Neo Geo premium on lesser games? Several of those games that I listed I didn't like back then, so yeah. I guess that list would be "what games aged poorly", mixed with "what games did I think were bad when they were released"?

I did enjoy Baseball Stars Professional, and Top Players Golf. I did like Robo Army, and Sengoku. But I can't go back to them now. There's far better beat 'em ups that have better animation, and don't feel as clunky. And as I said before, while BSP is still decent, Baseball Stars 2 is fantastic, and I have no reason to go back to BSP again. And as for TPG? Well there's this one game called Neo Turf Masters...

 

[andsuchisdeath]

My opinion isn't based off of the "conceptual difference between console games and arcade games". To me, the Neo Geo AES was a console, so those were console games.

This is a very skewed perspective.

The design and nature of arcade games and console games are wildly different. To not be able to discern between the two through playing them...well that's one (unfortunate) thing. But to be unable to understand this reality due to a physical enclosure on the hardware running the games is absurd.

 

[Neo Alec]

This is a very skewed perspective.

The design and nature of arcade games and console games are wildly different. To not be able to discern between the two through playing them...well that's one (unfortunate) thing. But to be unable to understand this reality due to a physical enclosure on the hardware running the games is absurd.

This is a subjective thing. There are lots of console games that exhibit arcade-like tendencies and vice versa. Look at any console game with limited continues and quarter-munching sections. Magician Lord manifests as a console game as soon as you take out the immediate respawns.

 

[Ramad]

This is a very skewed perspective.

The design and nature of arcade games and console games are wildly different. To not be able to discern between the two through playing them...well that's one (unfortunate) thing. But to be unable to understand this reality due to a physical enclosure on the hardware running the games is absurd.

Design and nature of arcade and console games? What? The MVS was an arcade machine. The AES was a home console. Unless you have a unibios, the game software acts differently. Limit on continues, fighting modes, etc. I am able to discern the two.

What does this have to do with games aging poorly?

 

[andsuchisdeath]

Design and nature of arcade and console games? What? The MVS was an arcade machine. The AES was a home console. Unless you have a unibios, the game software acts differently. Limit on continues, fighting modes, etc. I am able to discern the two.

What does this have to do with games aging poorly?

You're comparing apples and oranges by honing in on superficial details.

The nature of arcade games is a vastly different than that of console games. Arcade games are designed to continually generate revenue in game centers. They are (obviously) far more challenging than console titles and demand far more from the player (at least as far as comparing overlapping genres, RPG's console-centric genres don't apply here).

With a console game, well once you bought it, they already have your money. Arcade games are designed to a more rigid standard of performance where they literally can't afford to be trash. Obviously the Neo Geo home console's consumer model is an exception/anomaly. However this shouldn't nullify the fact that the neo geo library's true peer group is 90's jamma games, not the genesis and snes, etc.

For a relevant comparison, comparing Andro Dunos to Gaiares? Does Gaiares have rank? Does Gaiares loop? A game like Andro Dunos requires so much more from a player than 95% of Genesis shooting games, despite whatever appearance the graphics have. A game like Andro Dunos (or any neo shooter) is going to require hours and hours from a player in order to clear. That's just not the case with a game like Gaiares. So in that sense...one would be getting "more for their money" if one is to look at both of these titles as simply "games I play on my console"

Now to not care for these early neo games, and prefer the genesis titles from that era, that's totally fine! Obviously enjoyment is subjective. But these separate sets of titles can only be compared on a limited set of criteria/parallels.

Then again "aging poorly" is quite subjective too...

 

[andsuchisdeath]

This is a subjective thing. There are lots of console games that exhibit arcade-like tendencies and vice versa. Look at any console game with limited continues and quarter-munching sections. Magician Lord manifests as a console game as soon as you take out the immediate respawns.

Surely there are many console games designed like arcade games to extents.

I don't understand how Magician Lord manifests itself as a console game sans immediate respawns though.

 

[Ramad]

Surely there are many console games designed like arcade games to extents.

I don't understand how Magician Lord manifests itself as a console game sans immediate respawns though.

Once you're playing Magician Lord on an AES, it's a console game. You have limited continues. Once they're up, that's it. Restart at the beginning. You can't pump in quarters to continue where you were, so it loses its objective of difficulty.

But that's really not the point. You're getting hung up on stuff that you don't need to, fam. What it's coming down to, is that you like Magician Lord. That's fine. Many others do too.

I don't. Not anymore. I think that it's difficulty is bullshit, like the little flying fuckers that are at the perfect height with you when you need to make a criitical jump or go down a ladder, while also shooting at you. Or how the ninja can't shoot continuously, only in pairs. The only thing that draws me to it is the beautiful use of the Neo's color palette, and some of the music, but it's not enough to get me to want to play it.

Sucks, because its one of the few action platformers on the system.

But that's my opinion. Games like Neo Turf Masters, and Magical Drop 3, and Baseball Stars 2, eclipse their predecessors or games in the same genre so much so that the other games are not as fun in comparison. You play the previous games and say "I'd rather play another game."

 

[andsuchisdeath]

You can't pump in quarters to continue where you were, so it loses its objective of difficulty.

What the hell does this mean? You either didn't read my post #141, or you didn't understand it.

Where did I say I liked Magician Lord? No where. I don't even like the game.

"Difficulty is bullshit?"

"Little flying fuckers". It looks like you're the one "getting hung up on stuff you don't need to, fam".

Your posts read like those of a scrubby fool who will never get it. I'm not going to expend energy in a dialogue with you anymore.

 

[Ramad]

What the hell does this mean? You either didn't read my post #141, or you didn't understand it.

Where did I say I liked Magician Lord? No where. I don't even like the game.

"Difficulty is bullshit?"

"Little flying fuckers". It looks like you're the one "getting hung up on stuff you don't need to, fam".

Your posts read like those of a scrubby fool who will never get it. I'm not going to expend energy in a dialogue with you anymore.

I went into detail how ML has aged. You went on a tangent about the difference of arcade and console games, that has nothing to do with games aging poorly. Then you start getting insulting. You do you.

 

[madman]

I went into detail how ML has aged. You went on a tangent about the difference of arcade and console games, that has nothing to do with games aging poorly. Then you start getting insulting. You do you.

That's pretty much what he does. Tells everyone how stupid they are when they disagree with him. He gets snippy when he's not in his millennial hugbox safe space.

 

[Electric Grave]

Let's break it down!

Alpha Mission 2: Good game, crazy system, feels odd but patience is a virtue, the game is awesome!

Andro Dunos: Great game, options galore, kinda reminds me of gradius meets R-type with SectionZ art style.

Art of Fighting: Good game, stiff mother of all stiff mothers but it's the evolution of SF1, it's only natural to be curious, great atmosphere.

Baseball Stars: Good game, very plain jane palette and sprite work but I think it's got that classic look in purpose, simpler commands make for a more intuitive play over its successor.

Burning Fight: Mediocre game, it does what is supposed to ok for the naked eye, not my cup of tea, never really cared for it. From day one it always looked cheesie.

Eight Man: Good game, plays great, looks awesome...how can you not like this game?!

Ghost Pilots: Mediocre game, it plays well enough but it's so slow, it's not as bad as lots of shooters of the time.

Legend of Success Joe: Bad game, we all know this. One thing though, the control scheme could have been used as a basis for a real fun brawler with Boxing controls, maybe a character in a game or just the game in general. The Neo could have used a decent boxing game.

Magician Lord: Great game, Hard to get into, not friendly at all but once you get it, it's great!

Ninja Combat: Mediocre game, although it does move well the game just reeks of lame somehow, I dunno, maybe something eludes me but I can play it once every 5 years and get my fill.

Puzzled: Mediocre game, I wanna like it so much 'cause I'm a Tetris whore but as much as I like Tetris Plus, the system here is meh, the difficulty ramps up extremely fast, I can go for a while but there's not much keeping you hooked and then the funky levels with more shit than ever, it's too much, a shame really, game could have been great.

Robo Army: Mediocre game, another game that looks great but it's a bit underwhelming, perhaps is the insane look, it looks far more complicated than it actually is, doesn't make it a bad game, the game plays well enough, a decent challenge too so I can see some folks getting into it.

Sengoku: Good game, simply 'cause of its originality, it plays like KOD and people are expecting it to play like a brawler, it is a brawler but it plays like an even earlier brawler.

Super Sidekicks: Good game, just 'cause each iteration got better and better (well that could be argued with U11) doesn't mean the first one is not a good game.

The Super Spy: Mediocre game, I'm sure some folks love this game, I for one don't really care for it much, not for lack of trying but it's really too bland to keep me hooked.

Top Players Golf: Good game, good controls, hard as hell, a good change of pace from Dat Turfies Life.

World Heroes: Good game, controls better than many clones at the time, same thing, just 'cause the sequels got better with time doesn't make the 1st a bad game.

SO there's only one game that I can say it's bad, all the games in this list are prolly the common denominator for a lot of people, but some of the games always had a stigma, like Super Spy, it has always been avoided for the most part and the same goes for many. The thing is some of the games are actually really good, you just don't know what to label them, you don't like them, I get it but aged badly, it's kinda dumb, some of this games always look bad, some got better with age, others never looked bad, so I dunno man, keep playing what you like I guess.

 

[Neo Alec]

Magician Lord has unlimited continues on AES. You have to memorize levels. It's like G'n G. I guess that arcade games can be that way too, but I personally prefer the pure trial and error at home. Can't practice all day at an arcade.

 

[oliverclaude]

I liked your whole train of thought, but these in particular:

I enjoyed ports of arcade games like Ridge Racer on PSX, X-Men vs. Street Fighter on Saturn, and Strider on the Genesis. They still hold up, and I don't mind playing them today.

I believe you, just as I believe, that you didn't spent such an intense time with any of those Neo games from your previous list, as you did with the ports above. So, while it's hard to judge objectively on games, you don't know well, the other side shows that PSX' Ridge Racer, when compared with its rigorous 60fps arcade polygon-source, didn't indeed age well -- if you take off rosy retrospection, that is. Neo's games are still the same, though.

I did enjoy Baseball Stars Professional, and Top Players Golf. I did like Robo Army, and Sengoku. But I can't go back to them now.

In the end, it's down to our subjective preference and perspective, true, and as much as I like Dead Poets Society, I like if.... a lot more. That's as far as I can come close to picture the disparity between consoles & arcades.

 

[Morden]

I did like Robo Army, and Sengoku. But I can't go back to them now. There's far better beat 'em ups that have better animation, and don't feel as clunky.

Of course there are better beat 'em ups with better animation. It's 2017 after all, so between 1990 and now something had to happen, BUT ... I could say Capcom's CPS offerings from that time are much better than Robo Army. I'll take Captain Commando, Final Fight or The King of the Dragons any day over Robo or Sengoku. This is, however, beside the point. We're talking about Neo games and whether or not they're still any good today, not if they're better or worse than other games, because they had competition during their release, which arguably, was better.

I played Robo Army just today, and I have to say, the game still looks good, especially for a title from 1991. Sprites are big, when you destroy an enemy, they explode into a thousand pieces and chopping an enemy open is still really satisfying. There's still a lot of fun to be had with this game. Is it the best beat 'em up out there? No. But it wasn't back then, either. Judging it on its own merit, however, I thing it holds up.