Car Enthusiast Thread

[Lets Gekiga In]

Alfa is still FWD. :chimp:

 

[K_K]

Alfa is still FWD. :chimp:

the GTV6 is RWD man

 

[Mushiki]

Came across these when visiting my father's garage -

-- some Cobra-looking racer

-- what a beauty, an old Maserati

-- some old french racer, has a huge engine but it's heavy as hell, worth about 500k

also came across a nice red Ferrari 355, a silver BMW Z8, a red Supra and a red Corvette while driving over there.

 

[TonK]

Wankel engines forever.

If more car companies would just start using them, they would see the awesomeness created by Felix Wankel.

Yeah, real awesome...

- Guzzles gas, very poor gas mileage...

- Expensive to service..

- FLOODS very easily...

- Oil consumption is very high since there is a constant drip into the chamber where it gets burned up...

- Lack of low end torque...

- Problems with oil passages and seals...

This is why the rotary engine will never see mass production...

Although a rotary engine is very reliable for short amount of time, the cost to rebuild these engines outweigh the good, unless you are a rotary mechanic and don't have a problem with rebuilding your engine as often as every 40,000 miles...

Also, these things have a hard time passing emissions... which might not be a problem for the race/track driver, it certainly poses a problem for the daily driver...

I will admit that my buddy's RX7 was the SMOOTHEST running vehicle I've ever driven, including new cars...

His car had any restrictions removed from the exhaust - and if you stood behind the car while it was at idle, the fumes would burn the shit out of your eyes and nose...

I doubt there will ever be a solid, reliable rotary design so we are stuck with whats available...

As long as you keep your oil changed in a Honda, it will go way past 200,000 and as high as 600,000 which isn't that uncommon to see at a dealership... (I've seen more than 10 a year...)

So its your preference as a consumer, but I sure as hell wouldn't pick up a used RX8...

 

[not sonic]

ive only seen one c6 on the road and that was the other day. pictures dont do this car justice

saw a yellow f50 once too.

never seen a viper to my knowledge.

quite a few c4s and 5s though. moreso than fbodys.

millions of mustangs

 

[Lets Gekiga In]

WE ALREADY DISCUSSED THIS TONK.

Most, if not all of those issues are only because not so many companies have opted to use the Wankel engine. If more companies were to start using it, then it would be just as reliable as the piston engine we know today.

 

[Lets Gekiga In]

the GTV6 is RWD man

Afraid not. Doesn't matter what you had in the past, Alfa Romeo now is all FWD.

Even the GT V6.

http://www.alfaromeo.co.uk/cgi-bin/...jgdfiidgnl.0&modelKey=125&mvsKey=831254370000

 

[Mushiki]

I love Wankels.

Mercedes Benz's C111 Concept had a Wankel engine and reached something like 250mph in the 70's.

 

[khyron]

Jesus TonK where you molested by a rotary when you where a child or something? Seriously though you seem to REALLY hate rotaries.

Ive owned many honda vehicles

94 integra
Del Sol Si (DOHC Vtec)
Crx Si
Civic Hatchback (98 i am sure)

And Ive owned an rx7

So even though i know for a fact that my opinion means absolutly nothing to you I have to say the rx7 is hands down better then any of those Hondas. Reliabilty might not have been as good as my hondas but the only honda i had that was even close to the year rx7 i had was the crx, and let me tell you that crx was SHIT. as a matter of fact the engine went on it and i junked it, dont even get me started on the fragile plastic body parts.

Since ive had both i think i might just know alittle better then you.

Hell since ive been talkin rotaries so much lately i actually bought another one

I like to drive i am not a fanboy, i want results and none of those hondas i had could hold a candle to the rx7, I didnt buy it to take my kids to soccer practice or pick up my groceries I got it for kickin ass and takin names.

Dont get me wrong though my second fav was that del sol and if i ever sell my FC then the del sol would be my next car (yeah i know its a fag car)

 

[TonK]

Jesus TonK where you molested by a rotary when you where a child or something? Seriously though you seem to REALLY hate rotaries.

Ive owned many honda vehicles

94 integra
Del Sol Si (DOHC Vtec)
Crx Si
Civic Hatchback (98 i am sure)

And Ive owned an rx7

So even though i know for a fact that my opinion means absolutly nothing to you I have to say the rx7 is hands down better then any of those Hondas. Reliabilty might not have been as good as my hondas but the only honda i had that was even close to the year rx7 i had was the crx, and let me tell you that crx was SHIT. as a matter of fact the engine went on it and i junked it, dont even get me started on the fragile plastic body parts.

Since ive had both i think i might just know alittle better then you.

Hell since ive been talkin rotaries so much lately i actually bought another one

I like to drive i am not a fanboy, i want results and none of those hondas i had could hold a candle to the rx7, I didnt buy it to take my kids to soccer practice or pick up my groceries I got it for kickin ass and takin names.

Dont get me wrong though my second fav was that del sol and if i ever sell my FC then the del sol would be my next car (yeah i know its a fag car)

I'll see you at the track

And my car wasn't build for a straight run... thats kind of like telling you that your car would probably take me in the 1/4, but wouldn't have a chance vs me on the autocross...

And since you are as defensive as I, props were given to the rotary...

I will admit that my buddy's RX7 was the SMOOTHEST running vehicle I've ever driven, including new cars...

And Lets Gekiga, I'm sorry I didn't read every fucking page of the thread to find the "rotary discussion"

Cut me some fucking slack...

 

[OrochiEddie]

Rotary is just cool.

 

[TonK]

WE ALREADY DISCUSSED THIS TONK.

Most, if not all of those issues are only because not so many companies have opted to use the Wankel engine. If more companies were to start using it, then it would be just as reliable as the piston engine we know today.

Nice try with the speculation..."If more companies use it then...blah blah..."

The rotary will NEVER go mainstream... how 'bout that?

 

[K_K]

Afraid not. Doesn't matter what you had in the past, Alfa Romeo now is all FWD.

Even the GT V6.

http://www.alfaromeo.co.uk/cgi-bin/...jgdfiidgnl.0&modelKey=125&mvsKey=831254370000

i'm not talking about the new ones. my friend has an 84 that's not new.

 

[Lets Gekiga In]

i'm not talking about the new ones. my friend has an 84 that's not new.

Well, if it was mistated, I meant current Alfa Romeo cars. Which there are no RWD Alfa Romeo cars being produced right now.

Honda has more RWD cars than Alfa Romeo currently in production.

 

[K_K]

Well, if it was mistated, I meant current Alfa Romeo cars. Which there are no RWD Alfa Romeo cars being produced right now.

Honda has more RWD cars than Alfa Romeo currently in production.

i blame fiat

 

[Lets Gekiga In]

And Lets Gekiga, I'm sorry I didn't read every fucking page of the thread to find the "rotary discussion"

Cut me some fucking slack...

You need to calm down, Mugen boy.

We discussed this in one of the many other car threads some people seem to keep making. You were even in that discussion.

Nice try with the speculation..."If more companies use it then...blah blah..."

The rotary will NEVER go mainstream... how 'bout that?

As long as there are companies manufacturing Wankel engines, I'm pretty happy.

And as far as being "mainstream," it doesn't really matter. The Wankel engine has already proved that it is light years ahead of the piston engine in terms of performance. After Mazda won the 1991 24 Hours of Le Mans race with the 787B (4 rotor Wankel engine), FIA banned the Wankel engine because it is too good. Also Formula 1 does not allow Wankel engine entries anymore either.

Mazda is the first and only Japanese car manufacturer to win 24 Hours at Le Mans.

 

[khyron]

HAHAHA You'd see my tail lights sucka!!!!!

1/4 mile aint my thing, autox and drift for me please.

I would love to autocross with you it would be fun and thats what its all about, but it will never happen so we dont know who would win.

I wish everyone had my outlook on cars. to me a nice car is a nice car, I dont see labels, badges, motor type or size. I get in, i drive and if the car is bad ass then its bad ass.

 

[TonK]

You need to calm down, Mugen boy.

We discussed this in one of the many other car threads some people seem to keep making. You were even in that discussion.

Must have slipped my mind because I don't remember posting any of the problems with the rotary...

As long as there are companies manufacturing Wankel engines, I'm pretty happy.

And as far as being "mainstream," it doesn't really matter. The Wankel engine has already proved that it is light years ahead of the piston engine in terms of performance. After Mazda won the 1991 24 Hours of Le Mans race with the 787B (4 rotor Wankel engine), FIA banned the Wankel engine because it is too good. Also Formula 1 does not allow Wankel engine entries anymore either.

Mazda is the first and only Japanese car manufacturer to win 24 Hours at Le Mans.

How was the engine classified? displacement? horsepower?

I'm not saying anything about performance in short, isolated events, or even knocking the performance at all...

Its still an unreliable daily driver engine... which is why it will NEVER be used by anyone other than Mazda in only 1 production vehicle in the world right now...

And the last time I checked, the RX8 wasn't the best selling car in anything except the rotary class

Also, this is 2005, not 1991 - the piston engine is hardly what it used to be 14 years ago, and can do pretty much everything the rotary can, and then some...

Like the 9k redline on your ol' mans S2K - that was 5 years ago...

And the rotary isn't even on the board in any other events... well, maybe faggot ass drifting :chimp:

Anything else?

 

[TonK]

HAHAHA You'd see my tail lights sucka!!!!!

1/4 mile aint my thing, autox and drift for me please.

I would love to autocross with you it would be fun and thats what its all about, but it will never happen so we dont know who would win.

I wish everyone had my outlook on cars. to me a nice car is a nice car, I dont see labels, badges, motor type or size. I get in, i drive and if the car is bad ass then its bad ass.

I agree with you for the most part... I like all cars, but have some dislikes...

I'm not saying I wouldn't consider a RX-7 - but as of now, its not my thing...

And seriously, I'd love to autox with you, but that will never happen...

(I'd still own you )

BEDTIME!

 

[Tony_N]

Yeah, real awesome...

- Guzzles gas, very poor gas mileage...

- Expensive to service..

- FLOODS very easily...

- Oil consumption is very high since there is a constant drip into the chamber where it gets burned up...

- Lack of low end torque...

- Problems with oil passages and seals...

This is why the rotary engine will never see mass production...

Although a rotary engine is very reliable for short amount of time, the cost to rebuild these engines outweigh the good, unless you are a rotary mechanic and don't have a problem with rebuilding your engine as often as every 40,000 miles...

Also, these things have a hard time passing emissions... which might not be a problem for the race/track driver, it certainly poses a problem for the daily driver...

I will admit that my buddy's RX7 was the SMOOTHEST running vehicle I've ever driven, including new cars...

His car had any restrictions removed from the exhaust - and if you stood behind the car while it was at idle, the fumes would burn the shit out of your eyes and nose...

I doubt there will ever be a solid, reliable rotary design so we are stuck with whats available...

As long as you keep your oil changed in a Honda, it will go way past 200,000 and as high as 600,000 which isn't that uncommon to see at a dealership... (I've seen more than 10 a year...)

So its your preference as a consumer, but I sure as hell wouldn't pick up a used RX8...

You know the RX8's RENESIS engine isn't the same as in Mazda's previous rotary powered cras, it's a new generation.

RX8's power unit was nominated the International Engine of the Year in 2003, that should tell something.
They say fuel consumption has been reduced by 40 per cent compared to its predecessor. Also emissions are at a very much acceptable level.

Lack of low end torque? Kind of like in S2000...

 

[Lets Gekiga In]

How was the engine classified? displacement? horsepower?

Back in 1991, it used a naturally aspirated 2.6 liter 4 rotor Wankel engine that produces 700 hp.

Its still an unreliable daily driver engine... which is why it will NEVER be used by anyone other than Mazda in only 1 production vehicle in the world right now...

Soon to be another (Senku, most likely), or maybe a few more due to strong sales of the RX-8.

And the last time I checked, the RX8 wasn't the best selling car in anything except the rotary class

RX-8 has had strong sales. Go to Mazda's corporate page, they've sold over 50,000 RX-8s worldwide in 2004 alone.

Also, this is 2005, not 1991 - the piston engine is hardly what it used to be 14 years ago, and can do pretty much everything the rotary can, and then some...

I don't think so. The naturally aspirated 1.3 liter 2 rotor Wankel engine (RENESIS) from the RX-8 can produce 238 hp! That's 183 hp per liter! Obviously it's the best hp per liter from a naturally aspirated production car, it's even better than the S2000.

Like the 9k redline on your ol' mans S2K - that was 5 years ago...

Yep, the old S2000s (2000-2003) can do that, but 2004 onwards only rev up to 8000 RPM.

The RX-8 has and still redlines at 9000 RPM.

And the rotary isn't even on the board in any other events... well, maybe faggot ass drifting :chimp:

Guess you never heard of the Star Mazda Series. It's a race car series that uses the RENESIS Wankel engine exclusively. Very fun to watch too. The Star Mazda Series also has great drivers like Marco Andretti and Graham Rahal (if you don't recognize these drivers by their last names, you don't know that much about racing).

And didn't you read what I typed previously? FIA has banned Wankel engines (since 1992) because they are too good.

Anything else?

Wankel engine > Piston engine

 

[khyron]

one last thing seeing how we seem to be at an agreement for once. Rotaries are reliable, FCs can make it into the 2000000 mile club.

They get a bad rep becuase you can easily get almost 100 hp from just bolt ons (TII's anyway) and you know what that means. Punk ass kid boosting way more then the motor can handle (without a bigger fuel pump and injectors etc) and beat the living hell out of the car.

So alot of rotary cars you see out there had a hard life and werent cared for at all, take into consideration you do need a mechanic that nows how to work on a rotary and you get what is called a "ureliable car"

Finding a mechanic these days is easy

When you think about just about every high performance car is considered a pain in the ass especially used ones.

 

[Magnaflux]

Rotaries are not inherently unreliable. They have about 1/3 to ¼ as many moving parts in comparison to a reciprocating piston engine.

Many of the RX7's sold were abused or modified above their intended operating limits. There are still many on the road today, but like any other car care and maintenece have an influence.

Some issues have arisen in regard to the apex seals. It is difficult to make such a contact-breaking seal. All told, there are tons of old rotaries kicking around with low compression.

In fact, many small lightweight aircraft use rotaries.

 

[K_K]

i don't care for rotaties. mostly because the one time i worked on one it was in tech school. and i just kinda poked at it for a while as we weren't supposed to fix it but get acquainted with it. i didn't like it much then but i do like how the FC looks but beyond that the rotaries never appealed to me. there's a reason you see RX-7's with 350's dropped into them, it's because the rotary engine dies and it's just cheaper to put one in then buy a whole new, or even refurbished rotary.

 

[TonK]

The way that the 4 rotor Wanker is rated, is total bullshit... thats why the engine is no longer in F1...

2.6 liters my ass... thats like having a 7.3l I4 in terms of power... the rating is completely flawed...

Car audio competetion had similar rules recently applied...

I used to run an AudioArt 100HC to power my subwoofers - it was rated at 50x2 RMS...

Now thats total bullshit because when bridged down, I was pulling 1300-1500w RMS from that thing....

Yes, it was an awesome amp - but the ratings were flawed so I could enter low power classes and still dominate...

Do you understand what I'm trying to say?

Even though the 4rotor Wankel is rated at 2.6 liters - it could pull a MONSTER 700HP N/A - which is great for the engine, but unfair for the piston engine...

Its like rating forced induction vehicles without mentioning the turbo ro supercharger... you know?

When they rate the Wankel the way it should be (total HP) then it can be re-entered in the F! category and compete like it should.

Remember - not once have I said I wouldn't own a Wankel - I'm not convinced that the engine is rated fairly... (Again, not because its so advanced, but its a totally different design and should be rated acordingly)

Please tell me you understand what I'm trying to get you to.