15khz Mame VS MVBS

[EVLNEOGEO]

So after about a year and a half of amassing whatever NEO GEO MVS carts I can along with a few candies I am maybe having a change of heart in regards to whether to keep collecting legit boards or just go down the soft 15k MAME set up route.

I spoke to a few people who are starting to convince me that its incredibly hard to tell MAME from PCB when it is ran this way due to the correct scaling of image resolutions, PCs now being small form/quiet, cheap as ass, and powerful enough to exhibit little to no slowdown even in the more modern of boards including the CAVE Boards. I.E running both legit board and MAME rom side by side and not being able to tell a difference.

This would enable me to amass more machines over time and just throw MAME into them. I also won't have to become a jigalo to fund being able to play the games I want. (First Degree Peasant)

So I am looking for peoples opinions on this as for the price of less than one legit cave PCB I can get a Jamma compatible 15khz MAME Machine.

 

[Heinz]

I am also seriously thinking of going down this path. I just simply don't play the games I buy, no point spending ridiculous amounts of money on game boards just because they're 'original' oh dear. I've seen some videos on the MAME front and it looks quite good really. Even if I could notice anything it would be small and for only a couple hundred bucks I can play them all pretty much. I think I can look the other way on small shit.

I also look at it this way, these game boards are also a risk to own if anything were to be stolen, lost in fire, flood etc. That's at the extreme end sure but still I'm at a stage where I've gotten rid of my boxes of games. I just sold s SFZ2 CPS2 board and have money sitting in paypal ready for a jpac and some dell/Lenovo core2duo machine.

 

[BanishingFlatsAC]

I went the emulation route because I'm tired of having all these boards taking up space. Groovy mame and CRT_emu are the way to go. The newer Cave boards (ie pink sweets, ibara, ect) will have some slowdown no matter what because the emulation isn't 100% yet.

 

[EVLNEOGEO]

I am also seriously thinking of going down this path. I just simply don't play the games I buy, no point spending ridiculous amounts of money on game boards just because they're 'original' oh dear. I've seen some videos on the MAME front and it looks quite good really. Even if I could notice anything it would be small and for only a couple hundred bucks I can play them all pretty much. I think I can look the other way on small shit.

I also look at it this way, these game boards are also a risk to own if anything were to be stolen, lost in fire, flood etc. That's at the extreme end sure but still I'm at a stage where I've gotten rid of my boxes of games. I just sold s SFZ2 CPS2 board and have money sitting in paypal ready for a jpac and some dell/Lenovo core2duo machine.

These are thoughts I have had quite a bit recently. I mean I know my way around a PC way better than a PCB too so fixing things is that much easier.

Im contemplating keeping my 1 slot and a multi cart because after I sell my boards I am super close to getting another candy.

 

[EVLNEOGEO]

I went the emulation route because I'm tired of having all these boards taking up space. Groovy mame and CRT_emu are the way to go. The newer Cave boards (ie pink sweets, ibara, ect) will have some slowdown no matter what because the emulation isn't 100% yet.

Luckily I own the main cave games I play on my 360 which is running in a another cab I picked up cheap via VGA. Even then though I have read the 360 ports are actually quicker than the boards.

 

[BanishingFlatsAC]

Luckily I own the main cave games I play on my 360 which is running in a another cab I picked up cheap via VGA. Even then though I have read the 360 ports are actually quicker than the boards.

They are still extremely playable while emulated...with the exception of MMP. The Xbox ports are great, and with the added modes they are worth keeping around.

 

[Mega]

I didn't have MVS games set up, but the arcade games I did test with Groovy Mame and CRT Emudriver looked and played perfectly as far as I could tell. Full speed, proper resolution and refresh, no screen tearing, responsive inputs, etc.

 

[EVLNEOGEO]

I didn't have MVS games set up, but the arcade games I did test with Groovy Mame and CRT Emudriver looked and played perfectly as far as I could tell. Full speed, proper resolution and refresh, no screen tearing, responsive inputs, etc.

Sick. Sweet to see love for the 15K MAME like.

 

[mr_b]

A proper mame setup is indistinguishable from the real thing provided the mame side of things is sufficient.

 

[keilmillerjr]

I've been on the toss for a long time between 161-in-1 multicart and mame. The 161-in-1 works and is plug-n-play, but the menu sucks. I've spent so many hours fiddling with setting up the perfect mame environment (will include neo geo games only). I have everything figured out except installing crt_emudrivers. Even have parts to make a new harness to make a jamma harness specifically for the jpac, but lack the time and ambition to finish. I don't know. It's like I'm doing all this work just for a cool menu and in reality - my 4 year old daughter plays it more than me.

 

[Stellarola]

I didn't have MVS games set up, but the arcade games I did test with Groovy Mame and CRT Emudriver looked and played perfectly as far as I could tell. Full speed, proper resolution and refresh, no screen tearing, responsive inputs, etc.

Not only that but MAME is considered acceptable when posting hi-scores against original PCB. Even if you collect PCBs, you really don't wanna miss GroovyMAME. Great for testing games before you buy if you're in that camp.

With great power, comes...the ability to pause your game.

 

[lolifoxgirl]

Are there any nice pc to jamma type things to play with if one was considering this?

 

[EVLNEOGEO]

Are there any nice pc to jamma type things to play with if one was considering this?

Jpac is pretty much all you need as long as your running through a 15k compatible graphics card. TBH some dude is making me mine as I can't be arsed fucking on and doing it myself.

Lazy ass white boy.

 

[BanishingFlatsAC]

Are there any nice pc to jamma type things to play with if one was considering this?

If you need help with setting one up, just send me a PM. If you can build a computer you can make a mame box.

 

[bulbousbeard]

DeceptionZero is right on. I will add some more details, though, if you truly want something that's indistinguishable from the real thing.

You need to run with ASIO sound. Normal MAME and normal GroovyMAME do have noticeable audio latency greater than what you'd experience with real hardware.

To get next-frame input response, you need to use framedelay 9 with GroovyMAME. Even the Neo Geo driver, which doesn't have crazy CPU requirements, will need a decent CPU to run at full speed with framedelay 9.

The final thing: the only noticeable bug in a good Neo Geo game in MAME is Garou's background, but there's a workaround for it. Terry's stage has a glitch when you run it on a normal setup. However, if you make your own MAME build and clock the Neo Geo to 11mhz instead of 12mhz, the background will display properly.

So if you do GroovyMAME /w ASIO, framedelay 9, and a special build for Garou, you've got every good game indistinguishable from the real thing.

It's arguably better, though, because if you do a cabinet with a 6+ button setup, you can do stuff like bind a single button to A+B and C+D so that you can do the hard attacks in Samurai Shodown 2 with one button press.

 

[Electric Grave]

MAME is awesome, whether you are into PCBs or not, MAME is a great tool to have around and if you can have it running in your cab proper then you're all set. PCBs are awesome to have and all but the convenience of MAME cannot be denied. Plus if you're gonna be playing for real, MAME is a great tool for top tier gaming, like save states for practice on that 1CC and what have you.

IN all things considered, I'm a MAME player more than a PCB player but I'm happy with both, some PCBs could go though...

 

[bulbousbeard]

MAME is awesome, whether you are into PCBs or not, MAME is a great tool to have around and if you can have it running in your cab proper then you're all set. PCBs are awesome to have and all but the convenience of MAME cannot be denied. Plus if you're gonna be playing for real, MAME is a great tool for top tier gaming, like save states for practice on that 1CC and what have you.

IN all things considered, I'm a MAME player more than a PCB player but I'm happy with both, some PCBs could go though...

It really all depends on the games. The Neo Geo is unique in that it's one of the few platforms that's emulated very well.

There's a problem in MAME with almost every Konami game, for example. If I were big on the Konami games, I wouldn't recommend MAME at all.

 

[lions3]

When I had a NAC I setup a mame box with hyperspin running the interface. Loved that setup. If I ever get another cab I'll probably build another.

Also note, having a mame box didn't keep me from dropping a cps2 or mvs setup in every once in a while too. I just had each setup attached to a board I would just slide in when I had an itch.

 

[Electric Grave]

It really all depends on the games. The Neo Geo is unique in that it's one of the few platforms that's emulated very well.

There's a problem in MAME with almost every Konami game, for example. If I were big on the Konami games, I wouldn't recommend MAME at all.

Really now, ok then...so what's the horrid problem with Konami games? 'cause I have a few konami PCBs, played the roms and haven't really encountered a major problem, but color me curious...

 

[Pasky]

Really now, ok then...so what's the horrid problem with Konami games? 'cause I have a few konami PCBs, played the roms and haven't really encountered a major problem, but color me curious...

One issue that comes to mind is sunset riders. There is an emulation bug that affects both MAME and FBA (since FBA just uses a mame driver adaption). Try sliding down or up a slope while the screen is scrolling, your slide will be immediately cancelled. This can happen when walking off ledges as well.

Another one is Vendetta, there is an off the ground attack that only works in MAME/FBA when it shouldn't, has been verified by several people who own the original PCB. Hasn't been fixed in MAME yet because both bugs are thought to come from some sort of protection that hasn't been figured out on those boards. *(The Sunset Riders bug has been reported in MAMETESTERS since 2006)*

There's lots of quirks when emulating games, MAME is amazing and great for casual play. But there's some things that just aren't the same like in SHMUPS the slowdown isn't emulated the same as a PCB and you'll often get no slowdown where there should be on the real thing. Input delay is also an issue when dealing with emulators, even when using a CRT.

Not shitting on emulators or anything, I love em. Just saying, they have their faults.

 

[bulbousbeard]

On top of the problems Pasky mentioned, there's also the fact that the scaling/zooming effects are wrong in almost every Konami driver.

You can see gaps in sprites when they're scaled in most Konami games (TMNT2, etc.) because nobody's done actual hardware tests to figure out how the sprite scaling works in those games.

MAMEdev actually did hardware tests on the Neo Geo to figure out the exact way it works, and that's why it's so accurate.

 

[Electric Grave]

Wow, all these years playing Gokujou Parodius both ways PCB and MAME and never noticed an issue.

Same for some Shmups like Cave and Raizing, having the PCBs, playing save state practice runs for 1CC and what have you and I have yet to find significant discrepancies.

MAME can be used for "hardcore" gaming, not just casual. High end level score play allows MAME, so maybe it's not as bad as you folks make it out to be in regards to the "casual gamer" moniker?

Dunno, on one hand I agree with you both but on the other hand I completely disagree and find those discrepancies so miniscule that it's but a grain of sand on the beach that is MAME.

Edit: MAME...a beach with really hot broads...

 

[GohanX]

On top of the problems Pasky mentioned, there's also the fact that the scaling/zooming effects are wrong in almost every Konami driver.

You can see gaps in sprites when they're scaled in most Konami games (TMNT2, etc.) because nobody's done actual hardware tests to figure out how the sprite scaling works in those games.

MAMEdev actually did hardware tests on the Neo Geo to figure out the exact way it works, and that's why it's so accurate.

That probably explains the shenanigans with the Party Wagon in TMNT1, but I'll never own that PCB and it doesn't affect gameplay.

 

[Stellarola]

That probably explains the shenanigans with the Party Wagon in TMNT1, but I'll never own that PCB and it doesn't affect gameplay.

MAME is also being constantly modified and updated. In the future we can all expect better results if the devs decide to go back and fix some of those quirks.

 

[bulbousbeard]

Also, while we're in here, I might as well plug my MAME hack that lets you play the arcade version of Final Fight with the redbook audio from the Sega CD version. It's one of my favorite things...can't go back to the arcade music after this.