The Walking Dead TV series courtesy of AMC.

[Taiso]

Last night's episode wasn't very good, IMO. I had a very hard time believing they'd all be so stupid, on multiple levels, pulling that zombie out of the well. The scenario itself was interesting, but I just couldn't buy their solutions.

I have a hard time believing all of those people lacked the common sense to know how to pull a zombie out of the well without all of that happening. It felt like the producers were saying 'we need a good, gory shock moment' and they wrote a scenario that catered to it at the expense of the characters.

I also felt the flower symbolism was way too obvious. I didn't need to be hit over the head with the explanation with that level of browbeatery at the end. Also, I think it's time for them to actually explain Daryl's motivations. We've gotten enough hints, and I don't think the character is, aesthetically, enigmatic enough to warrant all this mystery storytelling. It's high time they spill the beans.

Rick and Dale continue to be the best things about the show, and Shane's redeemed himself quite a bit, too. The scene where Shane's talking with Andrea is very cool, and sets the table nicely for what ends up happening in the comic (if they go through with it.) I can buy Shane being unhinged at this point, so I don't think they need to expound on that any more.

I think the introduction of Maggie will do wonders for Glenn, who is a very good character that's been waiting for opportunities to show what he can do for the group dynamic beyond 'survivor guy who can do anything on his own.' I didn't buy him being able to loop the well zombie while freaking out, however. It felt like a moment from LOST, where Sawyer went from being a resource hoarding opportunist to a guy whose only weakness was himself. One of the things I hated about that show, and I hope I don't see it happen too often here.

So yeah, not their best episode. My second least favorite (following season one finale.)

 

[evil wasabi]

Last night's episode wasn't very good, IMO. I had a very hard time believing they'd all be so stupid, on multiple levels, pulling that zombie out of the well. The scenario itself was interesting, but I just couldn't buy their solutions.

I have a hard time believing all of those people lacked the common sense to know how to pull a zombie out of the well without all of that happening. It felt like the producers were saying 'we need a good, gory shock moment' and they wrote a scenario that catered to it at the expense of the characters.

I also felt the flower symbolism was way too obvious. I didn't need to be hit over the head with the explanation with that level of browbeatery at the end. Also, I think it's time for them to actually explain Daryl's motivations. We've gotten enough hints, and I don't think the character is, aesthetically, enigmatic enough to warrant all this mystery storytelling. It's high time they spill the beans.

Rick and Dale continue to be the best things about the show, and Shane's redeemed himself quite a bit, too. The scene where Shane's talking with Andrea is very cool, and sets the table nicely for what ends up happening in the comic (if they go through with it.) I can buy Shane being unhinged at this point, so I don't think they need to expound on that any more.

I think the introduction of Maggie will do wonders for Glenn, who is a very good character that's been waiting for opportunities to show what he can do for the group dynamic beyond 'survivor guy who can do anything on his own.' I didn't buy him being able to loop the well zombie while freaking out, however. It felt like a moment from LOST, where Sawyer went from being a resource hoarding opportunist to a guy whose only weakness was himself. One of the things I hated about that show, and I hope I don't see it happen too often here.

So yeah, not their best episode. My second least favorite (following season one finale.)

I just thought that even bothering with the zombie in the well was stupid, since the likelihood that the well was contaminated at that point was 99.9%.

I'm kind of thrown by how TWD and Dexter are both trying to push Christianity in similar ways, both with the good characters (sheriff dude and dexter) being relatively godless, and some religious guy (black preacher dude or Herschel Walker) who is so humble and mellow trying to gently explain that God had a hand in it. Is this demographic marketing or something?

 

[Taiso]

I just thought that even bothering with the zombie in the well was stupid, since the likelihood that the well was contaminated at that point was 99.9%.

Yeah, that was something my wife brought up. She was like 'there's no fucking way I'd ever drink from that well, even if they dropped a million sterilization tablets into it and you boiled it for a week.'

Just seemed better to put a bullet in its head and seal the well. Or take turns dropping rocks on it and scoring points for best hit. Cruel, but it's a way to pass the time.

I'm kind of thrown by how TWD and Dexter are both trying to push Christianity in similar ways, both with the good characters (sheriff dude and dexter) being relatively godless, and some religious guy (black preacher dude or Herschel Walker) who is so humble and mellow trying to gently explain that God had a hand in it. Is this demographic marketing or something?

My .02 on the subject:

Religion is one of those terms that general audiences can relate to Matters of faith and belief are extension of principle, and characters with principles ennoble themselves to general audiences much better. Audienes may not know much about Herschel at this point, but his 'friendly old man of god' demeanor communicates that while he is basically giving Rick and co. the boot once Carl can travel, he's not a 'bad guy.' I think that's the message the show is trying to communicate with Herschel here.

I think it's a 'trick' TV ande movie producers use quite often. Its character dynamics 101, but general audiences aren't even familiar with the course. They've never bothered to analyze, study or interpret these things. They aren't interested in the mechanics of storytelling. They just want to watch TV. I'm not casting a value judgement on people-I think that's just the way they are. And TV, even AMC TV, is going to cater to general audiences first.

As for the presence of religion in television, I think the above example still applies. Men of faith are generally seen as 'good until proven otherwise' because religion is a social touchstone for this kind of show. Agnosticism is a very strong storytelling element to tap into general audience fears and anxieties, and it comforts them to see someone who's 'got it all sorted out' in a crazy world or in unusual circumstances. Ultimately, this projection allows the show producers to either establish characters as spiritual leaders or swerve them at some point. In Sons of Anarchy, faith bolstered Jemma at a time where she simply couldn't turn to any living person for answers (season 2) but was also used as an opportunity to show a dissonant philosophical viewpoint for one of the series' most authoritative figures (the Real IRA priest, forget his name here.) He could sort out killing and trafficking guns and still be a man of faith. It's provocative storytelling that paints a more complex world view. Corruption and religion go hand in hand in other shows as well, like The Borgias. There's historical precedent.

Religion is just a part of our social and philosophical origin as a species. Belief systems tap into primordial forces inside of us that stem from insecurity and apprehension of the universe around us. Just bringing it up taps into so many things, some on purpose and some by accident. It's capacity to move audiences is the reason shows fall back on it so often.

 

[Hot Chocolate]

I agree with Taiso, the stuff with the well zombie was just really not needed. It's like with Frank's firing the new writers don't really know what to do and where to go

 

[HeartlessNinny]

So, if you haven't been enjoying the show anyway, last night wasn't going to do anything for you. Unless I missed something, it was mostly just set up for the rest of the season.

One thing to note though, the rose at the end was in a slightly blurred bottle of Sweetwater 420 Pale Ale. Brewed in Atlanta.

Actually, in my case I did come around a bit. I guess I was expecting it to be really terrible, but when that episode was done, I thought, "Sure, okay."

I still don't know what the hell they're doing with Darryl though. One minute he's trying to be kind and thoughtful to girl's mom, then he's mouthing off like a badass the next. That doesn't make for a complex character, it makes for a bad character.

Mostly I just want to see more zombie action. I can see why they don't want to overdo it, but the zombies have been way way too sparse this season. Aside from the herd at the beginning and the gang at the high school, they've pretty much been a non-issue, and that's pretty dumb.

 

[Taiso]

Mostly I just want to see more zombie action. I can see why they don't want to overdo it, but the zombies have been way way too sparse this season. Aside from the herd at the beginning and the gang at the high school, they've pretty much been a non-issue, and that's pretty dumb.

My personal belief is 'less is more.' If they show them all the time and in big numbers, then surviving them becomes no big deal and the show loses its uniqueness. They ran from so many of them in the first season that if they don't eventually show them in less and less quantities, then it'll get boring. The comic did this to mostly great effect, so I don't agree that it's a problem.

On the other hand, what they're donig with the breather has been a mixed bag at best. I think the show is mostly good where it stays close to the comic and, except for the deviations with Shane, the original stuff just shows that they don't 'get it' the way Darabont did. I am getting the impression Kirkman is so starstruck by all of this that he doesn't want to rock the boat by being an objector.

Contrast that with Ubisoft's recent deal with Sony to retain the majority of creative control over anything appearing in the AC movie, and you can see IP holder concerns coming into play. Across the board, everyone thinks the AC movie will never get made because Ubisoft is too invested in maintaining their own vision of integrity. They blamed Disney for the 'Bruckerization' of Prince of Persia, and they're not going to let it happen with their most important franchise.

Kirkman, on the other hand, is probably like 'hey, do whatever. Isn't it cool to see my comic made into a TV show?' I have no proof for evaluating this, but I largely think that the show's 'off the rails' feel in this last episode indicates a less than unified vision by the producwers of what this show is supposed to be.

I also think budgetary concerns are limiting zombie use. They cut the budget for this show this season, and you can see all the tricks they're employing to get around having to spend all that money and time in preproduction. I imagine that a zombie herd costs a lot of money to get ready for a scene. So they're probably of a mindset that they won't shoot those scenes unless it's for something special.

 

[Castor Troy]

Thought the episode was kind of on the weak side.
The well-zombie thing was pointless, but I did get a kick at how it ended.
I don't get Taiso's comment about how Rick and Dale are the best characters either (dude, please don't write a long response, although I would read it, in the end it's just a difference in opinion).
The part that's really getting on my nerves is the missing girl. They should have resolved that by now. It's gotten to the point that no matter what happens, the payoff won't be worth it. If they find her alive, who cares? If she's a zombie, who cares. As far as I'm concerned, her and her mom need to get killed off. They add nothing to the show.

 

[Taiso]

I don't get Taiso's comment about how Rick and Dale are the best characters either (dude, please don't write a long response, although I would read it, in the end it's just a difference in opinion).

LOL I see I've forged a reputation that I probably deserve

It's cool. I can only explain, for me, what makes them work.

The show just, in my opinion, does a good job of showing them and then putting them in situations where their point of view can come out naturally. It makes me relate to them better, and I think the show has dropped the ball with most of the other characters. Their particular foibles make them compelling to watch, not annoying like some of the other characters. They're just better character studies than the others, IMO.

 

[HeartlessNinny]

My personal belief is 'less is more.' If they show them all the time and in big numbers, then surviving them becomes no big deal and the show loses its uniqueness. They ran from so many of them in the first season that if they don't eventually show them in less and less quantities, then it'll get boring. The comic did this to mostly great effect, so I don't agree that it's a problem.

On the other hand, what they're donig with the breather has been a mixed bag at best. I think the show is mostly good where it stays close to the comic and, except for the deviations with Shane, the original stuff just shows that they don't 'get it' the way Darabont did. I am getting the impression Kirkman is so starstruck by all of this that he doesn't want to rock the boat by being an objector.

Contrast that with Ubisoft's recent deal with Sony to retain the majority of creative control over anything appearing in the AC movie, and you can see IP holder concerns coming into play. Across the board, everyone thinks the AC movie will never get made because Ubisoft is too invested in maintaining their own vision of integrity. They blamed Disney for the 'Bruckerization' of Prince of Persia, and they're not going to let it happen with their most important franchise.

Kirkman, on the other hand, is probably like 'hey, do whatever. Isn't it cool to see my comic made into a TV show?' I have no proof for evaluating this, but I largely think that the show's 'off the rails' feel in this last episode indicates a less than unified vision by the producwers of what this show is supposed to be.

I also think budgetary concerns are limiting zombie use. They cut the budget for this show this season, and you can see all the tricks they're employing to get around having to spend all that money and time in preproduction. I imagine that a zombie herd costs a lot of money to get ready for a scene. So they're probably of a mindset that they won't shoot those scenes unless it's for something special.

I agree with the general thrust of your point, but there are limits. There's 'less is more' and there's practically no zombies at all. I think the comic makes this mistake too: they're not the end all and be all, but it's a bit stupid when they're a non-factor. That's what I fear is happening here, budgetary concerns or not.

 

[terry.330]

Going to have to agree that the last episode was lackluster. I don't think it was a total waste of time totally but they could have done more with it.

The well zombie seemed like something the SFX team thought up and then the writers just said if make everyone stupid we can stretch it out for a third of the episode.

Also glad to see Glen get some more screen time.

And the preview for next weeks episode looked promising even with what little they showed.

Anybody catch Hell on Wheels afterwards?

 

[Taiso]

Going to have to agree that the last episode was lackluster. I don't think it was a total waste of time totally but they could have done more with it.

The well zombie seemed like something the SFX team thought up and then the writers just said if make everyone stupid we can stretch it out for a third of the episode.

Also glad to see Glen get some more screen time.

And the preview for next weeks episode looked promising even with what little they showed.

Anybody catch Hell on Wheels afterwards?

I tried Hell on Wheels, but it sort of lost me with the douchebag bounty hunter looking all cool standing on the tracks with his back to the camera and then his general attitude.

There was just a whole 'see how cool our hero is? Look how awesome he is OMG!!!' vibe to him.

But I like the idea that it's a western TV show. It's cool to see someone trying one right now. I liked Colm Meany in it.

 

[SonGohan]

I agree with the general thrust of your point

C'mon man

 

[Phyeir]

I tried Hell on Wheels, but it sort of lost me with the douchebag bounty hunter looking all cool standing on the tracks with his back to the camera and then his general attitude.

There was just a whole 'see how cool our hero is? Look how awesome he is OMG!!!' vibe to him.

Isn't that like, the bulk of the Western genre?

I tried it, the first episode was pretty good, they've started to open some things up but of course nothing in answered at this point. I'll probably watch through the first season to see exactly where it is going.

 

[Taiso]

Isn't that like, the bulk of the Western genre?

I don't know. I haven't honestly given it much thought. In retrospect, it seems like most westerns do have some badass gunfighter. I think i was just turned off by the character. I've seen way too many of his kind.

I guess I appreciate the genre being on, but maybe was hoping for the show to not need this kind of character. It just felt like I'd been there and done that before.

And honestly, I think it was the iconoclastic talk he had with the Irish guys on train. It wasn't enough for him to be a quiet badass. He had to piss in their cheerios. I just wasn't into the vibe of it.

If the buzz at a later point shows it's a great overall show, I'll definitely give it a second chance. Please let us know what you think.

 

[Phyeir]

I don't know. I haven't honestly given it much thought. In retrospect, it seems like most westerns do have some badass gunfighter. I think i was just turned off by the character. I've seen way too many of his kind.

I guess I appreciate the genre being on, but maybe was hoping for the show to not need this kind of character. It just felt like I'd been there and done that before.

And honestly, I think it was the iconoclastic talk he had with the Irish guys on train. It wasn't enough for him to be a quiet badass. He had to piss in their cheerios. I just wasn't into the vibe of it.

If the buzz at a later point shows it's a great overall show, I'll definitely give it a second chance. Please let us know what you think.

Give the whole first episode a watch, really. I'll admit, they really lay it on thick at the start there...

(Skip this spoiler section if you want to go in truly fresh)

Spoiler:

You go into the show knowing it's some bad ass gun slinger or bounty hunter. It starts the first 5 minutes with him shooting a guy in a confessional. Then the whole train scene, yeah more setting him up as a badass.

As the show goes on through, they really start to introduce more intrigue into the plot, like what is Hell On Wheels, what is everything going on with some of the characters that aren't the main and how will it all sync up in the end. Definitely give the whole first eipsode a shot. Colm Meaney and his final speech really pulled me in at the end.

 

[cdamm]

tonights episode is exactly why i keep watching that show.

 

[Castor Troy]

tonights episode is exactly why i keep watching that show.

Liked the episode as well. Wasn't expecting that ending at all.
Glad Darryl was not killed (I probably would have stopped watching the show).
They should seriously stop the whole search for the missing girl. No one gives a crap anymore.

 

[cdamm]

They should seriously stop the whole search for the missing girl. No one gives a crap anymore.

i know, right? Yeah- the story is trying to say how they are trying to retain their humanity in a savage world. The best way to do it is to show the little girl as a walker, put her down, and move on. Lesson learned about utilizing your time and resourses.

I really dont want to bone in that barn though.

 

[HeartlessNinny]

I'm surprised at your guys' reactions. I thought this episode was friggin' asinine at best, and potentially shark jumping territory at worst.

I thought about carrying on about it at length, and maybe I will later, but for now I'll just say this: They still haven't found that fuckin kid? Is that going to be the plot for the whole goddamn season? Ridiculous.

 

[HeartlessNinny]

I tried Hell on Wheels, but it sort of lost me with the douchebag bounty hunter looking all cool standing on the tracks with his back to the camera and then his general attitude.

There was just a whole 'see how cool our hero is? Look how awesome he is OMG!!!' vibe to him.

But I like the idea that it's a western TV show. It's cool to see someone trying one right now. I liked Colm Meany in it.

Oh yeah. In other news, I tried watching this show too. I turned it off about halfway through the first episode... I was stunned by how worthless it was. Totally directionless, no sense of atmosphere, bad acting (even from Colm Meany, who's usually pretty good), etc. I wanted to give it a fair shake but I thought it was so crappy I had to switch it off.

So far, AMC has two top tier shows in Breaking Bad and Mad Men, and a dumb but fun show in Walking Dead. I haven't seen anything else they've done that's worth a damn (though I haven't seen the Killing, and I hear that's pretty decent).

 

[Taiso]

Better than the previous week.

I'm getting tired of the search for Sophia. Feels like daytime soap opera material now. It almost feels like they're doing this as a story macguffin for keeping the group at the farm. The writers have portrayed Herschel as a certain type of character that wouldn't let them stay there if they had all their people and were ready to move on, so they're contriving this extended plot to pad the mechanics, storytelling wise, for it.

As much as I like Daryl, I think bringing Merle back in a fever dream is a completely shitty premise for revealing the character to us. There is a whole cast of characters there that could be used to peel back those same layers in other ways, and at the same time you could be doing something with the other people as well. Instead, they wasted an opportunity to do something with weekly characters to bring a 'version' of Merle back. The writers would have to work a little harder to justify Daryl havingt hose particular conversations, but they are being paid to write good stories, and with a little effort they could make it happen.

I loved the conversation between Rick and Shane about surviving. It's sentiment versus survival. And it was an inevitable conversation. Great stuff.

The barn stuff was cool, but I knew it was gonna happen from the comic, so that's more a matter of enjoying the adaptation than mining for new material. It also brings up an interesting question about 'preserving humanity.' In a world where definitions of humanity are going to vary from person to person, it's going to be interesting to see what happens as the scenario unfolds. Herschel definitely has his own ideas about the zombie plague and it's going to be interesting to see it rationalized. Keeping them holed up in a barn downwind (logical-most well designed farms would be layed out this way) speaks to Herschel's view that they are either animals or sick people. Either way, he hasn't seen the science behind their metamorphosis and he probably doesn't even care about it. He's got his own ideas about the shape of the world now and who gets to live on his property and who doesn't, and for what reason.

A lot of interesting scenarios can come from this. Do Rick and crew leave? Do they fight with Herschel to stay? Argue to go in and kill every one of them, which goes against Herschel's wishes to keep them around? Do they rebel and take over the farm? These examinations of definitions of humanity are what fascinate me about this genre. A lot of potential here, but the 'P' word is a double edged sword.

Opinion time:

I completely disagree with the sentiment I'm seeing here that it would be a valuable lesson about surviving in a savage world to have to put down a zombie Sophia. That kind of efficiency doesn't preserve the essence that separates the humans from the undead. When it all becomes about math and survival and necessity, they they are acting on necessity and cold, calculated decisions and they forget emotion and sentiment and in time, it just turns everyone just as dead inside as the zombies. It all becomes about living for the next day. But if you aren't preserving something about humanity, there's no point to surviving at all. Living just to live? Because you don't want to die? Why bother? The scientist in the CDC looked at all survival scenarios and realized, from an analytical standpoint, that surviving just to survive is wasted effort.

I really liked how Lori pretty much told Shane that he's not making a hard choice by abandoning Sophia. He's making the EASY choice. It's easy to just write her off. It's harder to keep searching for her, thereby clinging to humanity in a world that seems less and less humane. Foolish? Perhaps. And clearly, not everyone is on board with that mindset. Realistically, they wouldn't be. Some would be very much in survival mode. But out of fear. It's no grand decision. It's motivated from a place of weakness, not strength.

But you don't live to work. You work to live. So as annoying as it is that the Sophia search goes on, I like that Rick is not giving up on her. Were I in his shoes, I'd hope I could cling to that ideal. It's just a TV show, but TV is storytelling, and storytelling is an art form and any art form that can provoke you to consider human values is not altogether worthless. Nor are the notions that come from such examinations.

 

[sp3ctr3]

Haven't read the comic but was wondering, what's the deal with the ears?

 

[N30_G30_speed]

The mother is coping with the lossof her child... like she gave up already or at least I felt it like that, if that makes the whole searching sidequests stop, then fuck yeah.
I'm finding this season kinda disappointing except for the episode when Shane "takes a huge plunge to the dark side of the force... "

 

[norton9478]

I thought that the Mearle/Daryl bit was a bit too much Smeogle/Golem

The first 5 minutes was good. The rest was a cross between Bonanza and Dawson's Creek.

It's turning into Lost... More questions than answers.

 

[SonGohan]

I completely forgot about the barn full of zombies from the comic until the woman freaked out reading the note. I didn't expect it. After all, there's a lot of stuff they're not taking from the comic. I saw on my FB news feed that Merle was going to be making a guest appearance, and I got pretty stoked for it, but I'm fucking bummed it was like that. Reminded me of Dexter and his dad, except Merle is still living.