So the Wii U........What exactly is Nintendo playing at?

Taiso said:

This is exactly the problem Nintendo faces, more than the others, in my opinion.

It's like others have said in the thread.

Right now, the WiiU has failed to attach itself to any considerable percentage of the audience.

Even Nintendo fans/apologists don't really have legs to stand on in their defense. Is the new Mario anything for people to really get excited about? No, it's pretty much the same old, same old. Ho hum.

The console doesn't appeal to hardcore gamers (the twitch/skill based players). It doesn't appeal to casual gamers. It doesn't appeal to dudebro gamers. It doesn't appeal to niche gamers. It doesn't appeal to the soccer moms or the 'faddists.' No one cares. The numbers, for now, prove it.

This is independent examination of the reasons why. Reasons don't soften the reality we're seeing with the WiiU-it is presently (although hopefully not permanently) irrelevant except in that we are discussing its irrelevance as a harbinger of things to come.

Whereas the PS4 and 720 could be equally bland in terms of their launches, they come with pre-installed indentities. The marketing strategies, in this present day, support that.

But the consumer base for the WiiU isn't preinstalled. They're largely 'faddists' who now have iPad and Android tablets to screw around with. WiiU tried to integrate this funcationality in to the console's core experience because Nintendo at least had the foresight to acknowledge:

A.) Their bread and butter last generation was historically fickle

B.) They needed to try and reach out to those people as well as dedicated gamers.

The result? The WiiU, a console that doesn't do any of those things so much better than the PS3, Xbox or iPad that people will abandon them for it.

Lack of identity is killing this thing right now. I stress that: right now. I am not saying that it can't come back. But right now, it's limping badly.

By the time PS4 and 720 come out, will that change? Will the devs abandon the 'surest' money they can make by ditcing those built in identities and their potential? In this day and age, in this market, I don't believe they will.

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That's why I am staying away from the Wii U unless it somehow develops it's own identity which I don't really see happening.

The Wii sold quite well, but 6 years after I bought it, I may have put in less than 80 hours worth of total time. It was built around a gimmick, and never really developed beyond that. For something that sold as well as it did, it's amazing how little it had to offer in terms of software. Outside of a few first party titles and a few third party titles, the entire library is bland. The Wii U is less of a real step forward and just an evolution of what already existed which I think is why it has the identity crisis that it does. It simply cannot appeal to any potential segment.

While the next Xbox/PS4 has their guaranteed segment of gamers, I wonder how long before the whole fad of gaming for the casual gamers wears off. I have a hard time believing that group will want to shell out another $400-$500 just to buy the same installments again. They probably will, but I'd like to see them skip the consoles because at least it would force the developers to have to go back to the drawing boards to actually develop new things instead of brand extensions. Everyone is afraid to rock the boat and would rather continue to try and do proven IP's just to juice the bottom line.

Taiso said:

that's it right there.

I am not going to hate on dudebros themselves, because like everyone else...they are what they are.

They are Sony's and Microsoft's equivalent of Nintendo's faddists of the last generation.

The difference is that dudebros have an ignorant alpha male complex and the psychology of that serves the marketing strategies of Madden and Call of Duty. Faddists are too easily distracted to maintain the intensity that dudebros have, so their trailoff is far more considerable.

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I hate on them to a certain point. Certainly it's not their fault they are a lowest common denominator of the gaming population, but I imagine were it not for them, this generation could have been far better. It started out great for me anyway, but is going out on a rather sour note which could have been avoided. It seemed like right around 2009/2010 that the overall feel of the generation shifted into something that's hard to get excited over. Of course the game companies are interested in making money, so they'll do whatever they need to in order to do that. Call of Duty and Madden is what sells. Everything else is a risk.

Taiso said:

I'd be happy if games got away from all the bloated excess, myself. The best selling games aren't quaint or quirky anymore. I'd much rather see games like Ni No Kuni and No More Heroes do well, and games like Call of Duty fall to the wayside.

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As would I. I was in Best Buy at lunch, and it was incredible looking at all of the games to see how bland the overall selection is. It's a departure from what the game selection was back in 2007. Call of Duty is a weird series as I loved it going back to the original PC game. I started losing interest with Modern Warfare 2 because the games became dumbed down, and lost a lot of the touch the first few installments had. I remember when Veteran difficulty was truly a challenge. Call of Duty 2 was brutal on Veteran...fast forward to Black Ops 2, and it was nothing more than a dull affair that offered little real challenge. Of course I suppose the whole WW2 setting won't appeal to a large enough segment of the gaming population as it's "old".

Magician: When I said the Wii-U would never run UE4 and FB3, I was correct. Because as its been pointed out, it won't ever be cost effective for it to do so. I also said this...

"It won't however matter, because company's won't take the time to rework them for a single console"

However I understand I don't hold the cred as some of the older members. I didn't say it was a limitation of the hardware, I simply said it would never happen. I stand by that statement 100%, and when in 5 years you see that I was correct... I will expect a full ass kissing apology from you.

The Wii U is suited to be a perfect home entertainment console with the screen controller, TV input, etc... But not letting it play DVD or Blu-Ray was idiotic. Nintendo will eventually make the games that sell Nintendo fans on the console. It's inevitable.. But if they had made it a balls to the wall, play anything you throw at it box for video as well then more people would be looking at it.

Make it good at playing video, checking facebook and viewing digital pictures and you've got millions of doofuses to pad your pockets until the games are ready.

No movies was just a cost cutting measure. It was the same with the Wii.
They would need to license for DVD and Blu Ray.

Yup, not buying dvd and Blu-ray licenses is probably a part of being able to make money off the console itself, like they did with the Wii. With the extremely low prices you have dvd and BD players going for, how many more sales would those features get you today? It's not like with the PS2 where dvd players cost more than the console at launch.

Naiera said:

Yup, not buying dvd and Blu-ray licenses is probably a part of being able to make money off the console itself, like they did with the Wii. With the extremely low prices you have dvd and BD players going for, how many more sales would those features get you today? It's not like with the PS2 where dvd players cost more than the console at launch.

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Not to mention: Hardly anyone buys DVDs/Blue Rays anymore. Almost everyone streams movies these days. So including a DVD/BD player in the console would be an added cost for Nintendo with little benefit.

I'll add my own tired opinion on this. I was not at all a fan of the Wii. My mom and my daughter like it though. Over here in my little section of the world, it seems that kids, girls, and casual gamers were the only ones interested in the Wii. Thats not anything new I know.

I spend a fair amount of time around the younger generation of gamers due to some hobby interests. These guys have been late teens early 20 and none of them cared about the Wii. These guys grew up through n64 and after. They don't have the experience of playing the nes, snes, Genisis, or those older consoles. Sure those other consoles were around but not what they grew up playing.

The old systems they have collecting dust in the closet are the game cube and xbox. I'm not really seeing any kind of brand loyalty to nintendo from these gamers. They seem to like the IP's okay but not enough to invest in a wii, and they are not even talking about wii-u. I wonder if I had grown up with n64 and game cube rather than nes and snes if I would have as fond of memories about console games.

Anyhow I drift off topic. I see people talking about the new playstation and xbox systems. Quite often actually, but nothing on the wii-u. Last Christmas my daughter if she wanted one but she wanted a ps3. To me, from what I can see locally the wiiu has no solid following, if any following. I don't know anyone who has one or has bought their kids one. Now I realize I live in the Madden and Call of doodie part of the states, but I'm rather suprised by the poor reception the new system has had.

I think Tommo should help Nintendo design and build there next console to ensure its success!

Somebody earlier in the thread said that Nintendo could find themselves in that sweet spot again if the PS4 and 720 are gonna go for $500.

Nintendo should be working on this right now. Giving people reasons to buy the console in time for the holiday season.

Could look really attractive to people if there is a ton of good stuff out for WiiU at holiday, when there is nothing for PS4 or 720 worth buying a system for at launch and market response is similar to WiiU as a result.

Also, I agree that including optical media for movie playback would not have really gotten Nintendo anything but a more expensive console. Offering streaming content is the better option, given it's the growing model. If anything, Nintendo should be looking to add support for MORE streaming services like HBO GO, Hulu and so forth.

I know that if you get a subscription to PlayOn, you can access it through the Wii's browser and that's your portal to a lot of that stuff. But still, why shouldn't Nintendo be the portal, as it is with Netflix?

Tung Fu ru said:

Not to mention: Hardly anyone buys DVDs/Blue Rays anymore. Almost everyone streams movies these days. So including a DVD/BD player in the console would be an added cost for Nintendo with little benefit.

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If a $50.00 Blu Ray player can be sold then the license can't be too expensive to include. Wii U already has a BR drive in it and is being sold on the magic of the screen... It seems like a cut for no reason. The Wii I understand as it never tried to tempt the "home entertainment" waters. Wii U by contrast is though. You could easily sell the Wii U to older folks as the game/movie box with the super easy to use touchscreen and internet features. Or sell it to parents of young kids as the "shut them up by letting them watch their stupid movies and games on the controller in the corner" device.

As it is though, it only really does Netflix streaming (something already dominated by the PS3) and acts as a light cable box (something MS is going to dominate with the next Xbox). That just leaves games as a selling point and beyond first party, no one is going to develop for Wii U.

I'm an early adopter (add me to your friends: "Cynntendo") and Nintendo supporter. I'm sure they will survive on first party as usual but I'd love to see them actually put on their big boy pants and fight harder.

And I want a proper console version of Pokemon goddamn it.

Cynn said:

And I want a proper console version of Pokemon goddamn it.

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How awesome would it be to have a Pokemon game on Wii U and 3DS that had the same connectivity features as Monster Hunter 3 Ultimate has? That alone would help push a lot of Wii U consoles.

neo_moe said:

How awesome would it be to have a Pokemon game on Wii U and 3DS that had the same connectivity features as Monster Hunter 3 Ultimate has? That alone would help push a lot of Wii U consoles.

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Agreed. Nintendo needs to freshen up pkmn with something like that. I feel like they are losing some new fan opportunity to Skylanders and other console monster collecting type things. All they need to do is make a core pkmn title on the console, link it to the 3DS and maybe include some NFC things for extra features.

Taiso said:

The reason people are critical of the WiiU's failure is because, ironically, of its lack of a real identity and because it won't have the same horsepower as the forthcoming consoles.

The major market has turned into the same tired old model as the music industry and major films. The publishers who push their AAA titles, and subsequently provide the most market awareness for the hobby as a whole, are stuck in the dudebro rut, and that rut has only gotten wider and deeper since Madden became big business.

I am not complaining about it, but simply making an observation.

.02

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I look at the console industry and I see all this "AAA or bust" nonsense, lots of great developers have closed up shop or forced to go "mobile" in the past 7 or so years, and if anything I think Wii U's identity is that of an unashamed video game console that doesn't pander to the "dudebro". It's the place where professional creative, and new IP titles might hopefully have a place to thrive(Staring directly at The Wonderful 101). It'll also be the home of Nintendo along with that, obviously; and I think the off-TV play is actually a really great feature, almost platform defining.

The Wii U is an open letter to the industry saying: slow the hell down, don't over-inflate your budgets with homogenized games in some graphics/techie race that's completely pointless now(mostly only dudebros and techie geeks care about that); development budgets grew far too large this past generation at the cost of creativity. Wii U's success is important if the console industry wants to still feel fresh & interesting. If the hardware is capable of it, the media will demand the best of the best of what graphics are possible on the given platform, and we're going to continue to see a squeeze on middle income developers if Wii U fails and PS4 & the next Xbox do really well.

I also fully agree with what Tung Fu ru was saying, give the platform at least a year before hastily writing it off as a failure.

Has anyone downloaded the big Spring update yet, its ment to be out today at some point and the Virtual console tomorrow!

Thanks for the reminder, I'll do it tonight when i get home.

So these patches are going to eventually need all the space on the White 8GB WiiU's. I wonder what they will do then.

So, what are the must have titles on the WiiU?

Been thinking about one, but not sure.

broken said:

So, what are the must have titles on the WiiU?

Been thinking about one, but not sure.

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Bayonetta 2

-D- said:

I look at the console industry and I see all this "AAA or bust" nonsense, lots of great developers have closed up shop or forced to go "mobile" in the past 7 or so years, and if anything I think Wii U's identity is that of an unashamed video game console that doesn't pander to the "dudebro". It's the place where professional creative, and new IP titles might hopefully have a place to thrive(Staring directly at The Wonderful 101). It'll also be the home of Nintendo along with that, obviously; and I think the off-TV play is actually a really great feature, almost platform defining.

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But that's not what's happening.

Devs aren't using the Wii U's architecture or off screen play as some kind of gaming design haven. You never hear anyone talking about the Wii U as a primary platform for devs to churn out the 'fun games'.

PSN and XBLA offer the same portal for these devs to make lower budget games and turn big profits. And the devs are going in that direction, and to Steam, before they're going to Wii U.

So again...who is this platform for? It has no identity. It's the console for no one.

Except Ninten-diehards.

I own one, by the way.

This may change if the PS4 and the 720 hit with a dull thud come christmastime and the less expensive Wii U is sitting right next to them, ready to buy, with a year's head start.

But that's dependent on the library of titles available for it. Which is why Nintendo needs to push, and push hard, to get as many great games released for the Wii U as possible between now and PS4 and 720 launch.

-D- said:

The Wii U is an open letter to the industry saying: slow the hell down, don't over-inflate your budgets with homogenized games in some graphics/techie race that's completely pointless now(mostly only dudebros and techie geeks care about that); development budgets grew far too large this past generation at the cost of creativity. Wii U's success is important if the console industry wants to still feel fresh & interesting. If the hardware is capable of it, the media will demand the best of the best of what graphics are possible on the given platform, and we're going to continue to see a squeeze on middle income developers if Wii U fails and PS4 & the next Xbox do really well.

I also fully agree with what Tung Fu ru was saying, give the platform at least a year before hastily writing it off as a failure.

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Nintendo's 'message to slow down' is being laughed at by the industry by and large. And with good reason.

Why develop less ambitous games for the Wii U when they can pour those resources into the mobile market and cash in on the most widespread 'platform' out there?

This console is stuck between the rock of the PS4 and 720 and the hard place of the mobile market, with nowhere to go but down, barring an amazing last minute escape. I hope Yoshi's a really good swimmer.

The console, right now, is a huge failure. It can rebound, and I sincerely hope it does. I'm not some bitter hater pouring sugar into Nintendo's gas tank.

EDIT: As for saying 'only dudebros'...

Dude...

Bro...

Call of Duty kicks everything's ass in sales, based on dudebro buys.

It's not 'only dudebros.'

It's 'dudebros and then everyone else' as far as the industry is concerned at present.

The devs are going to want to develop for the console that CoD, Madden and other dudebro fare sell well on. Because that's where the greatest potential to make sales will be generated from.

EDIT #2: Bayonetta is not the savior for Wii U. That is, and ever has been, a niche audience. It's a nice catch for Nintendo, but I hope it's not a lifelong exclusive, because the PS4 and 720 versions will likely be better for the little lady overall.

DangerousK said:

As would I. I was in Best Buy at lunch, and it was incredible looking at all of the games to see how bland the overall selection is. It's a departure from what the game selection was back in 2007.

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I went back home to Texas at the beginning of April and I saw how bland our selection of games were compared to Korea and Japan. I was amazed/sadden by the types of games the U.S. has. I saw nothing but FPS, M games, and games only dudebros would play. I had a very hard time finding RPGs for my PS3.

In regards to the Wii U, I would like for it to do well but I need a good reason to buy the system.

The upcoming Zelda would be a good reason to purchase a Wii U.

I love Zelda, but neither Twilight Princess nor Skyward Sword were the killer app system sellers Nintendo would have liked. Neither game 'put Nintendo back on the gamers' maps.' The same people bought them, the same people bitched about them and the world kept turning. The most noteworthy thing about either release was that they came out and nobody could agree on them.

Setherial said:

The upcoming Zelda would be a good reason to purchase a Wii U.

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I love Zelda. I love Mario. But Nintendo's over-reliance on these two franchises are a band-aid fix for something that requires surgery.

Look at how much a new Mario game used to mean. Super Mario World and Mario 64 sold their respective consoles right out of the gate. Mario Sunshine wasn't a triple A title, but it was decent enough and at least tried to incorporate a new gameplay mechanic to the series on Gamecube. Mario Galaxy was ambitious and reflected an obvious amound of hard work and craftsmanship for the Wii.

New Super Mario Bros. Wii, by comparison, is something like the 3rd or 4th time we've seen a variation on the same basic template for other Nintendo consoles. The music's the same, the storyline is a bare-minimum variation on the ones from past titles (not that its ever been a selling point, but still), and Mario and Luigi even go through their same animations and use the same voices when they complete a level.

This may sound like a very minor point, but to me it illustrates how Nintendo has essentially backed into this generation's console war instead of coming out with guns blazing.

2Heed said:

I love Zelda. I love Mario. But Nintendo's over-reliance on these two franchises are a band-aid fix for something that requires surgery.

Look at how much a new Mario game used to mean. Super Mario World and Mario 64 sold their respective consoles right out of the gate. Mario Sunshine wasn't a triple A title, but it was decent enough and at least tried to incorporate a new gameplay mechanic to the series on Gamecube. Mario Galaxy was ambitious and reflected an obvious amound of hard work and craftsmanship for the Wii.

New Super Mario Bros. Wii, by comparison, is something like the 3rd or 4th time we've seen a variation on the same basic template for other Nintendo consoles. The music's the same, the storyline is a bare-minimum variation on the ones from past titles (not that its ever been a selling point, but still), and Mario and Luigi even go through their same animations and use the same voices when they complete a level.

This may sound like a very minor point, but to me it illustrates how Nintendo has essentially backed into this generation's console war instead of coming out with guns blazing.

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New Super Mario wii u is the KOFXI of Mario games. The same old tired shit, but in HD.

In fact, that comparison is a compliment to the game. I say that, because, there are much older games that are more impressive in the Mario series than it.

Setherial said:

The upcoming Zelda would be a good reason to purchase a Wii U.

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You mean high def Wind Waker? Big deal.